Auto leveling question

[AJMike]

One of the things I found out about our various RVs is that leveling one part with leveling blocks does not automatically level all of the RV. If I make the kitchen counter level the dinette table might not be quite level, and if I make the floor level perhaps the sofa is not quite level. I guess the entire frame does some small amount of twisting when the ground is not level itself. Since my wife is mainly concern with the bed being level and the bathroom door not swinging open I use the leveling blocks to make sure those things are level and let other parts of the RV be slightly off level.

I have continued to use leveling blocks because it gives me the flexibility to control what is considered "level", but I have been thinking about installing automatic levelers. My question is whether or not it is possible to tell the system what part of the RV is to be level. I know there is generally a manual over-ride that allows you to adjust the system as you like, but are the systems smart enough to allow you to say "This is the part of the RV I want to be truly level" and then to automatically do the adjusting? Or do you have to use the manual over-ride to do that?

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by AJMike

One of the things I found out about our various RVs is that leveling one part with leveling blocks does not automatically level all of the RV. If I make the kitchen counter level the dinette table might not be quite level, and if I make the floor level perhaps the sofa is not quite level. I guess the entire frame does some small amount of twisting when the ground is not level itself. Since my wife is mainly concern with the bed being level and the bathroom door not swinging open I use the leveling blocks to make sure those things are level and let other parts of the RV be slightly off level.

I have continued to use leveling blocks because it gives me the flexibility to control what is considered "level", but I have been thinking about installing automatic levelers. My question is whether or not it is possible to tell the system what part of the RV is to be level. I know there is generally a manual over-ride that allows you to adjust the system as you like, but are the systems smart enough to allow you to say "This is the part of the RV I want to be truly level" and then to automatically do the adjusting? Or do you have to use the manual over-ride to do that?

There are two things that MAY help you. If you were to get the auto levelers, and then install the LevelPro system and app, you could set your RV the way you like it, and set that in the app as your baseline "level" or zero point. Then, each time you go to level--(sure you'd still have to do a manual not auto level)--but the app will tell you when you are at the set point you told it is "level" (to your standards).

You could also try the less reliable Auto level function, and you'd essentially do the same thing--that is get your rig level the way you want it to be "level", and then set the Auto Leveler system to that zero point. In THEORY, it wold auto level back to your desired spot.

On our last trip I got our RV as level as it could be, and then re-calibrated the Lippert zero point. Next time I park, I'm going to see if that worked, or else it's back to manual leveling--which is just fine with me, as the LevelMate Pro makes it pretty simple...

[Old Navy]

I know my frame flexes, but I haven't found variations from level over a small fraction of a degree. I spent my career on the sea, so maybe I'm just not sensitive to it.

The guy in the video below found out that auto leveling when you are way off level (enough to lift the RV wheels) can cause problems. And he did it at an RV Rally where there were lots of witnesses (and manufacturer tech support).

2 MISTAKES in 1 DAY (BOTH MY FAULT!)

It starts around 9:45.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Old Navy

I know my frame flexes, but I haven't found variations from level over a small fraction of a degree. I spent my career on the sea, so maybe I'm just not sensitive to it.

The guy in the video below found out that auto leveling when you are way off level (enough to lift the RV wheels) can cause problems. And he did it at an RV Rally where there were lots of witnesses (and manufacturer tech support).

It starts around 9:45.

Wow. Yeah, the tires aren’t supposed to come off of the ground!

What I dislike about using the auto level function over manual, is many times it raises the coach more than necessary, which makes the first step into the coach, awkward at best...

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by AJMike

One of the things I found out about our various RVs is that leveling one part with leveling blocks does not automatically level all of the RV. If I make the kitchen counter level the dinette table might not be quite level, and if I make the floor level perhaps the sofa is not quite level. I guess the entire frame does some small amount of twisting when the ground is not level itself. Since my wife is mainly concern with the bed being level and the bathroom door not swinging open I use the leveling blocks to make sure those things are level and let other parts of the RV be slightly off level.

I have continued to use leveling blocks because it gives me the flexibility to control what is considered "level", but I have been thinking about installing automatic levelers. My question is whether or not it is possible to tell the system what part of the RV is to be level. I know there is generally a manual over-ride that allows you to adjust the system as you like, but are the systems smart enough to allow you to say "This is the part of the RV I want to be truly level" and then to automatically do the adjusting? Or do you have to use the manual over-ride to do that?

AjMike,
Well Sir, as you've read, you really DON'T level any particular part of a coach with or without, *auto leveling*. In reality, in a coach with a regular RV style refrigerator, the freezer plate, which is typically the bottom of the freezer, is the most IMPORTANT item that needs to be LEVEL!! I won't go into all the operation of an RV *absorption* style fridge but, suffice to say, it is most efficient if the fridge is as close to level as possible.

Now, with all that being said, anything else, bathroom doors, table tops, counter tops, eggs in a bowl or in a frying pan on the stove, is all secondary in terms of importance when it comes to leveling requirements.

Now, there are many that really don't care how level their fridge is, as long as their BED is where they want it or, a door doesn't close or open on its own. That's OK, it's their rig. Our coach, an '04 Itasca Horizon 36GD with the CAT C-7 330HP, has the HWH 625 Computer Controlled Automatic Leveling System.

With that system, I push correct button on the control panel TWICE, and the coach dumps its air and levels itself, all on its own. And it's done it for 16 years!!!!!!!!!!!! But, if and or when I feel it *may* need some adjustment for some reason, it's not hard. It takes about 2-3 minutes to make the adjustment and, it's done.

But, most systems that offer *Automatic leveling* have their own control board and or sensor. And, they (the manufacturer of the system) will tell you EXACTLY where to mount that sensor to get the most efficiency out of it, so that it controls the leveling of your particular style coach correctly.

In the end, you want a coach to be as close to level as possible, in general. By that I mean, you may have the coach, or counter tops, or floor, etc. somewhat level but, you still may have a door or two, that will close or open on their own. That could simply mean the door(s) might not have been installed correctly, or a door jamb not plumb etc. While those self closing or opening doors may bother you (or the CEO), if you level the coach to compensate for such a situation, the rest of the coach could be out of level.

Each coach is different. Again, in the end, you want it generally level and, if a diesel coach, you want it to be level as possible, AND, as LOW as possible. If it's a gas coach, since they don't have air suspension that empties prior to leveling which, lowers the entire coach, before leveling, many gas coaches sit rather high, when the leveling process is complete, due to the starting point already being higher. Hope this helps some.
Scott

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

“...In the end, you want a coach to be as close to level as possible, in general. That could simply mean the door(s) might not have been installed correctly, or a door jamb not plumb etc. While those self closing or opening doors may bother you (or the CEO), if you level the coach to compensate for such a situation, the rest of the coach could be out of level....”
.
Scott

I couldn’t agree more. Those who use their bathroom door as their measure of level, will be sorely disappointed—in many instances.
We get our rig as level as possible, and our bathroom door will swing open—I could care less because we want the Rig to be level.

So, I just shut that door.

[rprochnow]

The control panel for our HWH leveling system indicates where (front, back, left, right) the vehicle is low. The automatic sequence cycles through raising the jacks until all four directions are level. If we don't like how the automatic system levels, we can always adjust manually - and then confirm with a smartphone leveling app.

Since the refrigerator in the new Views/Navions have compressors, they should operate fine, even when not level.

Our only concern is the slide - and putting stress on it, if the coach isn't level.

So far, we've only encountered a spot in one RV park where we had a back-in space where the back of the vehicle was raised off the ground after leveling. We moved to a different space that was more level - or we would have had to pull in forward to the original space to keep the rear wheels on the ground when leveled.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

AjMike,
Well Sir, as you've read, you really DON'T level any particular part of a coach with or without, *auto leveling*. In reality, in a coach with a regular RV style refrigerator, the freezer plate, which is typically the bottom of the freezer, is the most IMPORTANT item that needs to be LEVEL!! I won't go into all the operation of an RV *absorption* style fridge but, suffice to say, it is most efficient if the fridge is as close to level as possible.

I am sure that is true for those RVs that have absorption fridges but the Winnie Fuse came standard with a compressor refrigerator and it does not much care how level it is, leaving me free to level the part of the RV that we want level.

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

Each coach is different. Again, in the end, you want it generally level and, if a diesel coach, you want it to be level as possible, AND, as LOW as possible.

The Fuse is a Class C diesel and it does not have any air suspension, so there is nothing to empty when stopping. I may be wrong but I don't think it much cares how high or low it is when we are camping. When using leveling blocks, of course, I use as few as possible and so it is pretty low to the ground when I am finished, but I don't think it much matters for us. Still, I will keep that in mind in case we buy a Class A next time.

My original question was whether or not someone with an auto leveling system could set some level state as being "level", regardless of where the system thinks actual level is, and then just be able to tell the system to use that setting when automatically leveling the RV.

[rprochnow]

If the automatic levelling is not actually getting to a level position, should that system be checked?

Our HWH system doesn't have any way to change (from the simple controls) the "level" position.

Though we can always manually adjust the jacks, something we have done if the vehicle has shifted slightly due to settling.

[DrMack]

We have the Equalizer leveling system on our 2017 View 24J. We prefer to level after extending the slide and use the Truma app to verify.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by rprochnow

If the automatic levelling is not actually getting to a level position, should that system be checked?

Since the RV frame flexes somewhat it is really a question of which part of the RV is level. Just because the leveling system reaches what it considers to be level at the point being measured does not mean that it is level everywhere in the RV and my question was whether or not the point considered as the measuring point can be changed or, equivalently, if some slightly out-of-level state could be set as the true level because someplace else in the RV that is more important to the user is level at that setting.

[Podivin]

Originally Posted by AJMike

My original question was whether or not someone with an auto leveling system could set some level state as being "level", regardless of where the system thinks actual level is, and then just be able to tell the system to use that setting when automatically leveling the RV.

Yes. An auto leveling system can be re-centered to what YOU declare to be level. The process differs by manufacturer, but basically you manually level the rig to suit you, then tell the system that 'this' is level. Going forward it should level to that point.

[Ray G]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

There are two things that MAY help you. If you were to get the auto levelers, and then install the LevelPro system and app, you could set your RV the way you like it, and set that in the app as your baseline "level" or zero point. Then, each time you go to level--(sure you'd still have to do a manual not auto level)--but the app will tell you when you are at the set point you told it is "level" (to your standards).

You could also try the less reliable Auto level function, and you'd essentially do the same thing--that is get your rig level the way you want it to be "level", and then set the Auto Leveler system to that zero point. In THEORY, it wold auto level back to your desired spot.

On our last trip I got our RV as level as it could be, and then re-calibrated the Lippert zero point. Next time I park, I'm going to see if that worked, or else it's back to manual leveling--which is just fine with me, as the LevelMate Pro makes it pretty simple...

I love the Level mate Pro.

[gurroz]

We had an auto level system on our Super C, granted they are probably much better now than they were in 2006. I don't find leveling with the blocks to be a problem with a short 25' MH. We level the floor just behind the front seat, the dinnete table, kitchen counter and the freezer. I personally can not justify the 3 to4K it would cost to install a levelling system.

[NeilV]

Unfortunately leveling blocks will only get you approximately level unless you can dig them into the ground to fine tune the adjustment since they do not come in an infinite variety of thicknesses. The manual HWH hydraulic levelers on my 2001 once you set up the level sensor to match the plane of the coach frame works perfectly for me since it is indeed infinitely variable in its adjustment as are the hydraulic levelers. Even if the built in level indicator is not set correctly a good carpenters level set on the floor and not the walls, doors or furniture works very well too.

Most critical thing is to have the coach floor itself level and flat as far as the refrigerator and slide apertures is concerned which is not going to happen very often using leveling blocks. The bed being level is a pretty bad indicator as mattresses are not perfectly square or even and might differ day to day depending on construction, who got out of bed last, who weighs more, etc, etc. Doors as others have mentioned can be out of plumb, have sprung hinges or may even have light duty springs inside the hinges to make them either stay open or stay closed so may have a tendency to swing regardless of how level the coach is.

The bathroom door on my coach for example has a spring to keep the door fully opened when its not latched to the strike plate so it will stay in place for privacy without requiring additional hardware when using the area outside the bathroom as an extended dressing area for the master bedroom so leveling the coach to prevent that door from swinging open when its not latched will put the coach horribly out of level.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by NeilV

Most critical thing is to have the coach floor itself level and flat as far as the refrigerator and slide apertures is concerned which is not going to happen very often using leveling blocks. The bed being level is a pretty bad indicator as mattresses are not perfectly square or even and might differ day to day depending on construction, who got out of bed last, who weighs more, etc, etc.

The importance of using the refrigerator as the basis for what is level depends upon whether or not you have an absorption fridge. Our refrigerator is a compressor fridge and it does not need to be level to run properly and, in fact, the out-of-level tolerance even for absorption refrigerators is now fairly high and we never had a problem with the absorption fridge in our previous RV being as much as perhaps 5 degrees out of level. It still worked properly.

On the other hand if the floor near the bed is out of level someone in the middle of the night who has to go to the bathroom may well fall and hurt themselves so I think that what is level depends upon the individual RV floor plan and the people using it.

One other issue is that an RV that is level may not still be level after the slide has been extended. Even with our stabilizers out the level state of our RV changes when we extend or retract the slide.

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by NeilV

Unfortunately leveling blocks will only get you approximately level unless you can dig them into the ground to fine tune the adjustment ....... Most critical thing is to have the coach floor itself level and flat as far as the refrigerator and slide apertures

Folks who have contacted Dometic about how level their propane fridge has to be have been told within 3 degrees side to side and 6 degrees front to back. That's a pretty huge error. A 2x8 gets you within 0.5 degrees or less over an 8 foot width, which should be plenty level for all but the most sensitive people. Folks have been leveling with 2X lumber for many decades without problem, once they learn how. Auto leveling is easy and convenient, and adds stabilization to the mix, along with cost and something else to break.

[4x4van]

As Old Navy said, the "specs" for absorption fridges are 3 degrees side-to-side, 6 degrees front-to-rear. Keep in mind that is side-to-side and front-to-rear OF THE FRIDGE, NOT OF THE RV.

Those numbers, in real world terms, are actually quite large (and easy to hit). With my 30' class A (8.5' wide), those translate into about 11" difference left-to-right and over 18" difference front-to-rear (OF THE RV). I dare say that if you are that far out of level, you will have trouble walking, cooking, sitting, eating...pretty much doing anything inside the RV. If you can sit at the table without your food sliding off, if you can lay in your bed without rolling out, if you can walk down the hall without hitting your head on the side of the wall...then you are likely within the required specs. Don't overthink it; whether using blocks or levelers (manual or auto), simply level to where it looks and feels comfortable to live in, and you're good to go. I guarantee you that will be within the refrigerator's required specs.

[FIRE UP]

I never worried about the specs. I just get the coach level, PERIOD. It's just not that hard to do. I've done enough camping and RV parks and Resorts that, I can tell from a distance just what kind of attitude a particular site represents. I can tell if it needs me to drive on some blocks or ramps or, whether the auto leveling system will handle it without doing anything else. But, once the jacks are down, putting the slides out, one in the galley and one in the bedroom, makes little to zero difference in the level setting. It's just not hard.
Scott

[Rick 99037]

I have to laugh. I'd be in trouble leveling so the bathroom door doesn't swing open. Our 2005 Sightseer has a spring-loaded bathroom door hinge. If unlatched it springs open 90 degrees. It's actually a feature for it. When open, it creates a nice semi-enclosed area between the bathroom and its shower across the hallway.