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Old 04-07-2023, 09:29 AM   #1
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A question of tolls?

We are being driven mad on the toll situation here in Texas!
It has been a full blown nightmare with billing and just a disaster for many folks who use the toll roads often.
When first moving here we just assumed that staying off the toll roads was the norm as that was what we were used to in our travels.
But then we found we occasionnally got on a section of toll accidently and the system here was so expensive to do the mail in payment, that we went with getting a transponder tag and auto pay only to fing that was not a solution as they fail to send us bills or deduct the correct amount for when we did use the toll roads. We had given them a credit card and they had it so messed up that we simply decided to drop the tag and go back to fighting when we did get on a toll road.
Just stopping was a full blown trauma as they failed to remove our car and tag from the system! We had a 2015 Focus and thought we had removed it from the system but charges kept showing on their billing and they billed the credit card when the $40 deposit ran low!

We now want to get a new tag for the new car but can't because we already "owe" 1.85 for a car we have not owned in several years! Wheil I check in on you folks, my wife is trying to resolve billing for things we don't own.
The problem is that we would like to now use toll roads, sometimes Texas, but more often Oklahoma and Kansas.

That brings the question of how billing and process works for cards from those states, which work on the Texas roads?

Are all state toll roads as messed up or might we be able to get an Oklahoma card and find better administration of billing? The Oklahoma turnpike has been at the game for a long time. Have they figured out how to handle billing? What about the Kansas follks? Can you pay the bill or does it take a full blown fight?

A little feedback please?

Note!
My wife is getting ready to go to an office to pay the $1.85, as they can't figure how to do it on Chrome without going into her settings--which she is not willing to do to pay one odd bill!
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Old 04-07-2023, 04:44 PM   #2
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The toll road operation in Texas has been a very bad system with zero customer service - at least in my experience.

However, once I broke down and got a TxTag, rather than use the pay by mail & license plate reading cameras, things did get a bit better. The tag provides cheaper tolls and everything is handled online instead of trying to work with them by phone, which was very maddening.

Also, in my experience the TxTag works in Oklahoma and in Kansas. I've used it in Oklahoma without problems and been told it works in Kansas, too. But I've not tried it there.

I'm confused about your problem, because you only need one account and that you simply add or delete cars from that account online. You don't need multiple accounts for multiple cars. You do have to remove the TxTag from any car you're getting rid of.

But since getting a TxTag we've not had any issues with the administration of the account.

We much prefer the EZ Pass system used east of the Mississippi but, of course, Texas couldn't join that system - kind of like the Texas Power Grid.
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Old 04-07-2023, 07:58 PM   #3
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That was where we got to with dealing with it several years back. We just sold the car and as part of that decided we wanted to totally stop dealing with them as we had such a hard time stopping them. Once we sold the car and thought we had stopped and removed/killed the account, we still had money deducted to refill the account! We arranged with the credit card to not pay that bill and thought we were assured that the account was totally dead!

Our daughter has moved and we have found we may want to use a toll road as we accidentally stumbled into using a short section.
But we did not get a bill as we expected through the plate reader?? We know the plate reading and mailing the bill is lots higher, so we thought maybe they now have the kinks worked out as it has been possibly ten years and numerous excuses blaming IBM and such for computer problems?

So we call to set up a new account and find we can't set up an account because we own $1.80+/_ that must be the short trip when we got on the wrong road in the new neighborhood??
They can't tell us for sure where the bill came from or what section of road, etc. that we might ask, so we said , fine, we will pay the small amount and just start the account and they suggest doing it online.
No good! We can't start a new acount online, even with them trying to walk my wife through. She sets up almost all paymentsd to be auto pay online but not this one!
She went to the local office and thought she got good service as she was back home in slightly more than an hour! The problem now is that we show two cars! One the 2015 Focus which I've mentioned several times and now the current Honda! Two cars later and we can't get the car from two cars back removed!
That Focus we bought for tow car is turning out to be my albatross, meant to hang on my neck until death! I sold it when we could not get it repaired, now we can't get it off the toll records!
Silly things like the way we okay money from the credit card? If we set a ten dollar limit as I trust them zero, I have to buy the transponder but if we okay twenty dollar deductions, the transponder is free??
We did get the tag and we are set to allow them to screw us as big as $20, so we shall see but my main plan is to stay as far away from their road as possible.

Since our main plan for use would be on the Oklahoma and Kansas turnpikes, we had thought they might work better as we have had no billing problems when traveling through on them. But it is nice to simply drive through without asking what the cost for each section and having change on hand.

When did life get so out of control??

I would still be interested in how the folks from Oklahoma and Kansas feel about dealing with the their toll systems and how it works out to use your pass in the Texas system?
Do they actually listen when you are speaking?
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Old 04-07-2023, 09:32 PM   #4
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I have had same experience as you, only tolls I ever had was confusion on the signs and went I picked wrong, I got a bill. I never won an argument with them so I always had to pay. I am guessing but seem like 7 - 10 years ago, I decided to buy an account for something like $20 so it would cover when I was wrong. But back then it only cover for one vehicle, you had to pay $20 for each vehicle, I have not even thought about Texas Tolls since Maybe the change so one $20 can handle all my cars and motorcycles, but I doubt it. They are thieves in my opinion.

Today, I use Waze and my Garmin RV890 to ensure I never get on a Toll Road. I rather lose 30 minutes in traffic.

Some parts of Oklahoma you have to pay the tolls, but the ones I have seen in Oklahoma, it was clear where to pay and how much.
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Old 04-08-2023, 07:46 AM   #5
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The Will Rogers has been the most frequent and then once every five years or so we get to some place and just pay the toll but now it seems a bit harder as we are looking at using the Cherokee in Ok and they seem to want exact change only with no toll operators to make change. Somewhat hard to figure what the exact change will be to have coins!
That is one the the things that bothers me here in Austin as there are no signs that Ican find to tell what the toll willlbe and really not any big ones to let me know before I have been on some small section while doing a circle to get to a shopping center.
Kind of suddenly find I'm on one, go to the next in ramp to get off and find out when I called that we owe 1.80!
But he charge would have been much higher, around five dollars if I had waited until they sent as bill but they did not seem to know when that would have been so possibly higher as they add late fees!
Kind of a catch -22 if they don't send a bill but charge me more because I'm late!
So now we have ten dollars that they can charge but who knows when they get around to that? From news reports it can be as much as a year later and when the charge gets up into big bucks.
Not the sort of people who I like to do business with, for sure! I was hoping to find I could do it through Oklahoma or Kansas and deal with them rather than this group?
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Old 04-08-2023, 08:18 AM   #6
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San Antonio doesn’t have toll roads…yet! But they’ve spent the last 5-years completely rebuilding Hwy 281 from the Comal county line to Loop 1604, the outermost freeway loop around the city. It’s likely 6-months or less from completion and it’s the main freeway into town from the northern suburbs. We’ll be using it constantly and the rumor is tolls will be added to pay for it after opening.

I get monthly emails from TxTag with zero owed statements. I have my account prefilled with $50 and back in October, 2022 I drove from Chicago to SA to help my daughter move. I took both my EZ Pass for Chicago and my TxTag for OK and TX. Both worked as promised and I still have $38 in my TxTag account. Ever since that trip I’ve received the monthly statement emails.

Before I got the transponder TxTag was my worst nightmare. Back then my daughter lived and taught school in Round Rock and it was impossible to avoid getting on a toll road accidentally. You’d be going north on Mopac and suddenly you’d have 5-seconds notice to exit or be charged a toll. Then, just as you said, it would be months before you received a bill in the mail but by the time you got it you’d already be late and have 10-days to pay before much larger late fees kicked in.

I made the mistake of trying to complain on the phone and nearly became violent with the frustration. But then I figured out that their goal was to force you to sign up for an account. Once I acquiesced I was able to chill about the whole thing.

Life’s too short to sweat the small stuff.
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Old 04-08-2023, 09:40 AM   #7
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Logic seems to be totally missing in the road ideas around me. We have a bypass to go around places like Taylor which is no big deal.

Most any place that the roads through town won't hold the traffic, there is a bypass.

But in Austin, where the only way north/south is I-35, in stead of a bypass, they build it as a toll road and the fees are so high that truck traffic still plows through town!
So they are just breaking ground on "the solution"which is to bury I-35 through town and put a double layer on top in what they are calling "cap and stitch" that is thought to make more usable land over the combined highways?
All the trauma of building two layers of underground to avoid going around or making the tolls rational to use 130?
I'm guessing getting that built under the Lake is going to take some effort!
Meanwhile all the junk land out East is being bought up by Musk for "company housing" for his gig-factory!
It's like the planners have never looked outside of Texas for what they might do??
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Old 04-08-2023, 10:14 AM   #8
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There is a mindset in Texas that causes all of this.

I moved to Texas in 1981 from Michigan and I learned quickly that Texans like to think they are unique. And, that their solutions to problems are uniquely wonderful. To Texans, everybody else is wrong and only Texas does it right.

That whole don't trust the rest of the country or world to have a good idea leads to these kinds of issues.

It's an arrogance, a conceit that goes back 150+ years. And, it's unique to Texas and, perhaps, California. Or maybe parts of New York.

I've lived in Ohio, Georgia, Michigan, California, Wyoming and Texas. Only Texas presents itself as unique in all the country or even the world. I like living in Texas (mostly), but I recognize it's very serious faults and don't buy the whole "we're the best" mindset. Trouble is 80% of the folks here would fight to the death upon that "we're the best" hill.

Anybody know the Billy Joe Shaver song? "F you, I'm from Texas." UPDATE... See correction below.
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Old 04-08-2023, 10:50 AM   #9
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Be nice!

Try Ray Wylie Hubbard for the song reference, “Screw you” not “f you.”
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Old 04-08-2023, 11:32 AM   #10
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Be nice!

Try Ray Wylie Hubbard for the song reference, “Screw you” not “f you.”
Absolutely correct - I remember the harsher wording, but I think it's more of a memory issue of mine.

And, yes not Billy Joe Shaver, Ray Wylie Hubbard. Shoot, I should have researched that before I posted it. Thank you for the correct info.
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Old 04-08-2023, 01:34 PM   #11
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That thinking seems to be a soourse of a lot of my concerns as well!
I guess it is part of the size of the state and folks living near the center may have never gotten around to going out of state?
I had a good neighbor before covid who insisted the wind generators are no good and that is why Texas has none! As we drove out to California one trip we stopped and took pictures of the wind farms and sent them back to verify that Texas does have wind generators.
The result? He questioned if I was sure where the state line was? In his mind, Texas was too smart to get involved in that nonsense! He only gets his news from "trusted sources"!

Reference:
https://www.texaspolicy.com/texas-wi...-story-part-1/
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Old 04-08-2023, 02:41 PM   #12
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That thinking seems to be a soourse of a lot of my concerns as well!
I guess it is part of the size of the state and folks living near the center may have never gotten around to going out of state?
I had a good neighbor before covid who insisted the wind generators are no good and that is why Texas has none! As we drove out to California one trip we stopped and took pictures of the wind farms and sent them back to verify that Texas does have wind generators.
The result? He questioned if I was sure where the state line was? In his mind, Texas was too smart to get involved in that nonsense! He only gets his news from "trusted sources"!

Reference:
https://www.texaspolicy.com/texas-wi...-story-part-1/
Drive to Amarillo from Dallas and you will see hundreds and hundreds of windmills in Texas.

I travel through the states you mention, but as I say, my GPS systems are set to avoid toll roads, unless there is no option. My last trip to St. Louis I got diverted on some back road in Oklahoma for about 30 miles. It was no big deal.

I was in Chicago earlier this week in a rental car needing to go from O Hare to Frankfort, Illinois. It was 1 hr 5 min on Waze, then I changed my Waze setting to allow tolls and trip was 45 minutes. It was corporate with Avis car so my tolls were paid and I didn't care how much they charged or screwed up But if it were my vehicle title in my name it would have taken me 20 minutes longer. Given how I -294 was; I bet it was safer too, taking the none toll route.

Austin is an exception, beautiful, but I would likely go nuts if I lived there. I once had to commute to Austin (North Austin somewhere) for about 6 months. I got tired of that long drive and traffic from Austin Airport to office ( likely tolls too) so I just started driving my personal car every week from Dallas. It was actually faster when net time differential was compared.
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Old 04-08-2023, 02:56 PM   #13
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I had a good neighbor before covid who insisted the wind generators are no good and that is why Texas has none!
I've seen hundreds or maybe even a thousand in West Texas:

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Texas is the number one wind power producer in the USA. The Lone Star State has over 33,100 MW of wind turbines installed. These turbines produce enough energy to power over 3.5 million Texas households and provide over 25,000 jobs.
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Old 04-08-2023, 03:40 PM   #14
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I know the generators are there and we have driven past many times without question. The thing that shocked me a si got to know the fellow better was how sure he was in thinking he was right!
He was led to believe wind generators were bad as the oil folks do the talking and Texas is good, so the two were not going to be found side by side in Texas!
The folks I envy are the folks who always had stock farms, then found oil and now have stock, wells, and generators all on the old homestead! Part of my extended family are in the Permian area but they just work there like normal folks.
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Old 04-08-2023, 09:50 PM   #15
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The folks I envy are the folks who always had stock farms, then found oil and now have stock, wells, and generators all on the old homestead! Part of my extended family are in the Permian area but they just work there like normal folks.
We visit New Mexico a lot and drive up to Lubbock on our way. There is an area Southwest of Abilene, near Winters, Texas, with lots of wind turbines and one ranch we pass has a sign by the state highway with the ranch name on it. Below the name is a drawing of a steer, an oil well and a Wind turbine. Bingo!
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Old 04-09-2023, 07:55 AM   #16
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Yes, we call that the road to winter, as we so often get caught in more cold than we wanted. One of my favorite spots is out that way but I don't like trek to get there.
I'm a reformed railroad chaser so Raton Pass and Capulin Crater are big events for me!
We tend to look for a place nobody has found yet!

An RV site we really liked if you go that way often?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ra...Fg%2F12hlnxn6c
A bit breezy and the weather can change in a heartbeat but a terrific view!
We got over the air TV from a long way when you are sticking up that high!
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Old 04-09-2023, 08:18 AM   #17
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Yes, we call that the road to winter, as we so often get caught in more cold than we wanted. One of my favorite spots is out that way but I don't like trek to get there.
I'm a reformed railroad chaser so Raton Pass and Capulin Crater are big events for me!
We tend to look for a place nobody has found yet!

An RV site we really liked if you go that way often?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ra...Fg%2F12hlnxn6c
A bit breezy and the weather can change in a heartbeat but a terrific view!
We got over the air TV from a long way when you are sticking up that high!
That Raton Pass Camp & Cafe sounds intriguing. We go through all the time, never had heard of. Problem for us is when we get to Amarillo, I am tired, but I normally press on to make the Sierre Grande Rest Area. That is where we spend the night. Always space and view of extinct volcanos. They even have trains that seem to go on for miles It is free and we let our slide out and just relax. We leave about 6:30AM next morning going into Denver. I must have daylight driving through Raton Pass.

I have never heard of a mandatory $2 charge if your RV has 50 amps service. That is so cheap why bother? I don't think we ever needed our generator ( or needed shorepower) We did need the propane heat, and we watch TV off our Inverter and T Mobile Hotspot.

One night on a return trip we stopped at a Restaurant in Memphis Texas. We had Dinner and they were about the close. It was Covid season so we ate in the RV. They actually wrote us a note to camp overnight on their property The food was good; so that may be our return trip stop. Oh yes, the Train was across the street.
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Old 04-09-2023, 08:18 AM   #18
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Last year on the way home from Durango we camped in “downtown” Capulin. OK it was just in the center of the “town”. There really isn’t even a town there. And visited the Volcano. We were being chased by a late spring snow storm out of Raton, but it was our plan to camp there and visit the National Monument anyway.
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Old 04-11-2023, 11:58 AM   #19
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Using our Ktag in Oklahoma or Texas has not been an issue unless I take the NTTA express way through Fort Worth. For some reason it does not read mine but it reads my in-laws when they go through it and they have a Ktag also. All other toll roads around Austin read it. I get the NTTA bill in the mail and pay it online. As for paying the Ktag bill, you keep a card or bank account on file and it debits the account on the 15th or so of the following month. Never had to deal with the NTTA over the phone.
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Old 04-11-2023, 01:33 PM   #20
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I may have given the wrong impression. I chase the history fo trains but camp as far back from the tracks as possible! I like to watch the steam trains and do that from the roadside but always make sure to be upwind! I'm not too fond of riding behind them for the same reason!
For Raton pass and camping it is a camp very near the summit and quite "different" in parking as it it chewed out flat from the mountainside,so the owner at the times we've been there was speciifc on wanting to guide you into th espaces as they are arranged in a semi circle where you had little space at the front but much more at the rear and getting them in right does take a bit of judgement and guidance! He was great and not at all hard to deal with but he did know what it takes to get thing slid in without tearing anything up.

On the toll question, the problem of reading the tags may be as simple as it being too close to metal on one car as that is very specific in my new instructions!
Yes, we have gone with getting a new tag/transponder to give it another shot but we also just saw on the KXAN news that they are asking folks to send in their complaints as they are going to run a news story on the trauma of dealing with the tolls roads around Austin.
Ten years or more that we have been down here and the story has not changed as far as we can tell. The story I get is that it was sold to a company from Mexico and the contracts between them, the computer system, and IBM are not something the state wants to change!
They have changed and "fixed" it a number of times but the state group is still the same so nothing really changes!
One thing I would sugges they change is the way we have to do so much stuff on the computer system which is so lacking. When my wife was on the phone, they insisted they lead her through how to do it online and it took two to direct her, taking vast amounts of their time which they could likely have fixed in a few minutes if they could do it instead of telling her how! After 30-40 minutes of "help" she got disconnected and just went to the office! They were good people to work with when standing in front of them so she had their real attention. I think the people are okay but the administration is in such a rush to save money they get rid of anybody who knows their job!

We will see if it works!
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