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Old 05-21-2021, 09:39 PM   #1
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2003 Ultimate Freedom Purchase - Opinions?

Our full-time family has made a deposit on a 2003 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom 40ED, and hope to join the Winnebago club soon. Unfortunately, we’ve uncovered some disconcerting information about our (hopefully) new home, and are looking for opinions.

Are these older units really worth their NADA estimates, and how does this unit stack up, considering the condition/history?

The good:
-The paint is glossy and excellent with few imperfections (see details below).
-The (optional) leather is in very good condition.
-It has optional washer/dryer, dishwasher, electric cord and hose reels.
-CCC acceptable at around 3,600 (dear god is that info hard to find)
-It’s very original.

The RV is being sold by a seemingly decent, well reviewed, small dealer who specializes in higher-end diesel pushers. I was initially told by the owner that the unit was (probably?) traded at lazydays, and used up until it was traded. The Carfax reveals:
-The RV has had two owners. It was first sold in 2009 with 45,000 miles. It was repossessed this year at 90,000 miles. It was registered every year. It was sold at bank auction for an unknown amount.
-Front right damage is reported in 2012. I suspected when inspecting the front cap had been repainted, but now I will inspect further. The bondo and paint are good, but not flawless.

Here’s what our initial inspection revealed:
-Hurricane hydronic heat has a terrible leak. Dealer already had replacement salvage unit on order.
-Windshield cracked. Dealer also has on order.
-Rear driver jack pointed 45 degrees rearward. Looked to be missing a mounting bolt. Jacks also not extending completely. Dealer will repair.
-Rear driver slide was at some point misaligned, hit the washer/dryer cabinet pulls. It doesn’t fully extend. Dealer will repair.
-Basement A/C blowing 15 degrees below ambient (theoretical 20-22?). Dash AC also needs recharge. Dealer will repair.
-Some misc (front seats forward/back not working, driver electric sunshade, fantastic fan, entry electric awning). Dealer will repair.
-Needs tires (0814 date code). Dealer offered Sumitomo/Toyos at $2600 at a local tire shop (is this even a good deal?)
-Minor water damage (a little staining, nothing soft, roof is hard) around front cap, rear passenger slide. Minor delaminations around the rear slides.
-Plenty of silicone/dicor replacement/repair. Nothing bad, just due.

Dealer was asking 59,900 and we talked him down to 58,400 + tax/tag/title (he was pretty firm). NADA low retail is 70,400. If he gets everything repaired, is this a fair price? We are also considering a used oil analysis as the repairs timeline allows for it. Opinions appreciated!
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Old 05-21-2021, 10:57 PM   #2
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If you put a deposit down, it sounds like you are committed. Is this correct?
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Old 05-21-2021, 11:03 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
If you put a deposit down, it sounds like you are committed. Is this correct?
The dealer said the deposit is returnable. It was $1,000.
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Old 05-21-2021, 11:19 PM   #4
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What type of engine and do you have maintenance records... which I'm guessing you probably do not.

Are you able to work on an RV or are willing to learn?

If it's on a website, why don't you post the link.
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Old 05-22-2021, 08:24 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
What type of engine and do you have maintenance records... which I'm guessing you probably do not.

Are you able to work on an RV or are willing to learn?

If it's on a website, why don't you post the link.
It’s the Cummins ISL 400hp. No maintenance records. I’ll do all the maintenance on the rv (very mechanically inclined). Here’s a link for reference: https://www.rvtrader.com/listing/2003-Winnebago-ULTIMATE-FREEDOM-5016467367
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Old 05-23-2021, 05:08 PM   #6
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It looks like you found a vey nice coach.

And the price looks good everything considered.

You will like the 400 horsepower engine over the 350. Just make sure it's not one of the 400 Cummins that is on a recall. Check the serial number on the Cummins website or call Cummins.

The 2003/2004 have a CAPS-1injection system which I have and is a fine injection system so long as you buy and install a FASS electric fuel pump or you can go with airdog; and in my opinion this should be one of your first upgrades.

Other upgrades include adding in an EGT, which is easy. And with a 400 motor you propably don't have to put a performance chip in it (from Ag Diesel) unless you want to... for another $700 hundred bucks. But this too is an easy install you could do yourself. But I would only go to about 425 horsepower... which you'll get a little more torque from but what you like more is cruising at 69-72 MPH on the freeway versus ~60 with the stock motor..

* I would also get rid of that norcold refrigerator at the first sign of trouble and go with a residential refrigerator... that your Dimensions quasi sign wave inverter could handle.

The only things about the coach I see that would concern me are the TV over the dash... which I do not like... and the second couch which I do not need.

However, if you do a lot of entertaining or have four people in your coach often then you will like having the second couch and therefore will put up with the TV over the dash.

On the other hand, if you bump your head on the TV frame, on the way into the RV, then that's a deal-breaker for me... and I would encourage you to look at the Horizon model like I have.

When was the last year Winnebago made the ultimate freedom line?

My 2004 Itasca Horizon 40AD has the perfect floor plan for a couple if you ask me.

You've made a very smart decision fighting a coach in the 2003 to 2006 range but these word transition years form high sulfur diesel to USLD diesel... but you'll be fine as long as you use the PS diesel additive and also put a Fass fuel pump in.

... do a search on www.irv2.com to for my thread on how to install a FASS pump DIY for $850. It's about a 6-8 hour job once you know how to do it but the first time around it'll take you two days.

Anytime you could find a luxury coach for $60,000 it's worth getting started on and then the more you do to it the more you love it.

Also when it comes to buying tires by the Michelin Steer tires the truckers use and stay away from the RV tires that Mitchell sells.

You'll hate the price of the Michelin tires but you'll love the ride and handling. ... and because you'll be putting hundreds of hours on the road you really should spend the money on the Michelin for your own driving comfort.

Do a search on my username for my other threads and you'll see all the things that you'll be doing to your coach DIY.

Congratulations on your new purchase.

PS I'd rather have a Cummins 2003 and 2004 Engine versus a 2005 and 2006 because those engines use high pressure in common rail systems (HPCR) and their injectors are more finicky.
...but if money was not a factor, I would get a high pressure fuel rail system (HPFR) which I believe they started in 2007.
... and note your engine is always going to be one year older than your coach year.
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Old 05-23-2021, 05:24 PM   #7
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What does CCC mean?

Also did you say your paint lines not matching up on the driver slide?

... and if I understand you correctly, are you sayung you are not able to put the slide all the way out?

To adjust the HWH "Storemore" flat floor is not something almost mechanics to know how to do. And then there are a couple different ways to tackle this problem.

I know because I I just installed all the h w h plastic triangles and plastic bearing pad kits in my HWH flatfoor.

If they replace just the outer triangles it's a 6 hour job. ( $900 plus $300 in parts) ... to do it right and pull the Rams out you will be spending $2,000 plus $350 in parts.

What city this RV being purchased at?

There's probably nothing wrong with the basement AC. The reason you are not getting very good cooling efficiency is that there are probably leaks in the venting that go up the rear cap.

This is common with most winnebago's that left the factory, because Winnebago was too cheap to use good sealing tape between the ducting joints.
..
If the basement A.C. is drawing nd 14 amps in Circuit #1 , and 24 amps on C1&2, then your AC is probably working well and it's strictly a matter of getting cold air from the basement AC into the cabin. You could tackle this yourself... but from a purchasing point of you I wouldn't be buying any RV that you can't get good cold AC inside the coach.
... that's like buying an RV with a refrigerator that doesn't cool down to 42 degrees.
... but an RV that has a bad Norcold frig, and an RV that has poor air conditioning, is also an RV that will go for a lower price... because the dealer knows that he can't sell an RV with these two major appliances not making the grade.

...and then you can fix these things yourself after you steal it from the dealer.

... just remember if you buy an RV with an air conditioning system like you described... you will not be happy with -14F out the vent...

That means that 95F you're going to be 85+ degrees inside the cabin. And at 100F you will be very uncomfortable.
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Old 06-15-2021, 09:59 PM   #8
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Better late than never, I'm updating this thread.

I got the call that the RV was ready for us to pick up a few days ago.

Over the past week, I got the oil and transmission analysis back. They showed:

-The oil had good wear numbers, but approx 12x average silicon. (did it even have an air filter?)
-The transmission had 3-4x wear numbers for most metals. Blackstone suspects the fluid was never changed.

We arrived to evaluate our punch list. The problematic slide still wouldnt fully extend. The AC, which blew 12F below ambient previously, now blew 16 below (20-22 ideal). I had noticed on a past visit that the AC filter had been harvested for mice bedding. But the chewed filter remained, as did some evidence of recent mice activity (ie $#!^) on the countertops. A few other minor items hadn't been touched, so we didn't even get into the test drive.

We walked. We didn't want to burn bridges, but the dealership said we wouldn't find something to our standards on their lot. I don't think our expectations were very high. Did we make the right decision?

This experience was at Florida RV Sales and Service in Mulberry, FL.
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Old 06-16-2021, 09:40 AM   #9
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YES! You made the right decision.

First, the various problems you found were just the tip of the iceberg. You can be sure of that.

Next, a 18- year old RV presents new and more expensive challenges every single time you use it... or even if you don't use it.

Also, the Ultimate Freedom was the most complex Class A that Winnebago built during the early 2000s. Lots and lots of special "features" that can and will go wrong.
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