2003-2008 Winnebago owners: need help

[RTegarini]

Hello Everyone;

I need some help from fellow Winnebago Sightseer (and similar models) owners. My father-in-law recently purchased a used 2006 Winnebago Sightseer on a Ford chassis. When negotiating the purchase, it was noted that a windshield needed replacement, which the dealer agreed to do. Purchase papers were signed but my father-in-law did not take actual delivery of the mothorhome until all agreed upon repairs were competed. So far, so good...

After the first rain, it was discovered that the replaced windshield was leaking and when contacted, the dealer would not make any inspections or repairs since it was sold 'as-is', even though they had just replaced that windshield. The motorhome was taken to a local glass company that can handle motorhome replacement windshield glass. The big surprise came that after the 'newly replaced' windshield was pulled out, it turns out that there is extensive damage due to a long-term leak and rust. The frame was so rusted and damaged that repairs of approximately $4k are need to grind down, fill, prime and repaint the frame so as to make it whole so the windshield not only won't leak, but that it won't fall out while driving down the road. The selling rv dealer of course knew all of this when they themselves changed out the windshield before delivery but never disclosed it to my father-in-law. (They didn't farm out the windshield replacement work.)

My father-in-law contacted the selling dealer and while for a few days it looked like they would take some share of ownership, today my father-in-law was told that even though they saw the damage before delivery, they had no responsibility in disclosing it. Further, the dealer, which has multiple Winnebago franchises, claims that this is a common and known problem to Winnebago and based on that, that absolves them of any liability, including seeing the damage prior to delivery but not sharing the information with the buyer. Interestingly, this same shop likely would have been all over the 'needed repairs' if my father-in-law had owned the motorhome for some time and then came in to have the windshield replaced. As soon as they popped out the windshield and saw the frame, they would have been calling him with a revised estimate to repair the rusted frame, telling him "...it's dangerous... the windshield could fall out."

So, what's your take... buyer beware, or should they have shared the information of the windshield frame damage when replacing the windshield? The basic question isn't who's at fault, if anybody, that it was leaking, it's that the seller came across the problem before delivery and chose not to say a word, knowing that it would be a costly repair and probably thought my father-in-law wouldn't know about it for years.

Is this leaking windshield rotting out the frame a 'known, common problem' with Winnebago products in this vintage of motorhomes? I'm sure there are plenty of owners here that have had windshields replaced: major frame damage and needed repairs?

Thanks in advance for any replies and insights. -RT

[Izzyblueye]

Sounds like you have enough contingent cost here to hire an attorney to protect your interest. Yes Winnebago did have this problem. Still, ignoring it and putting in a new windshield and not advising you of the potential problem is wrong. The dealer full well knowing the condition did exist, in my mind makes him an accessory to the fact.

[Hikerdogs]

Since the motorhome was purchased "AS IS" I doubt you will have any recourse. The main reason for selling "AS IS" is because there are problems that would be so expensive to fix the dealer wouldn't make any money if they were repaired before the sale.

Your only saving grace may be if your state requires an inspection before the sale to disclose any safety or structural defects. If your state does require the disclosure the window leak should have been noted. The dealer would not be able to say "It's not my responsibility" even if they missed it.

The other part of your problem is the cost the glass company charged for the repair. $4,000.00 sounds outrageous unless they had to cut out metal and weld in new. I doubt a glass company is capable of that kind of repair. Grinding out old rust, adding body filler, sanding and painting should be accomplished in a couple days by a competent body shop. In my opinion the repair bill should have been about 1/2 of what you paid.

Even if you do get the dealer to pay for some of the repairs I doubt they will pay what the glass company charged.

[JC2]

1. I would contact an attorney and run this scenario by him/her.

2. Some TV stations will run info like this on their daily news for others to know if you contact their news department.

3. Let others on this forum and any others know the name of the dealer so others can avoid them.

4. Go to this link and post a review of the dealers questionable work.
RV Service Review

[Doug Sage]

I don't think this is an "as is" issue. It is an issue of reasonable expectations that the dealer will do satisfactory repair work. To replace the windshield and know that it is going to leak or pop out is poor workmanship. They should have disclosed the problem to you rather than doing the work and just delivering the motorhome without disclosing the problem. Maybe small claims court is the way to go.

[krautkamper]

In buying from a dealer you supposedly have some protection as opposed to buying private. They must sell the vehicle as "roadworthy". If you were sold a vehicle with the potential of its windshield falling out, any reasonable person would not consider that "roadworthy". I would push that approach; even if you have to do it small claims court. Of course the dealer isn't going to offer to pay...

[Wayne M]

My 2008 Winnebago had the rust problem, but it was still under warranty. However, I'm really not sure if it was repaired "properly." They didn't spend the time that I think would have been required. Time will tell. Since this is an inherent problem with Winnebago, oh well. Time will tell.

As for the $4000 repair cost, the service manager I deal with at a dealership stated to me the other day that it cost an owner $4000 to have his front rust problem fixed. Probably 80% or more is labor. At $100+ an hour it doesn't take many days to get up to $4000. No, I would not be happy with it, but the repairs are necessary to prevent further damage.

Personally, I'd spread the word about that dealership in as many places that I could. I'd also contact any and all agencies that I could to report their dealings.

Good luck.

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by krautkamper

In buying from a dealer you supposedly have some protection as opposed to buying private. They must sell the vehicle as "roadworthy". If you were sold a vehicle with the potential of its windshield falling out, any reasonable person would not consider that "roadworthy". I would push that approach; even if you have to do it small claims court. Of course the dealer isn't going to offer to pay...

Actually in most states a dealer can sell a vehicle whether it's road worthy or not. Generally however they have to disclose any defects. In Wisconsin they have to fill out a state inspection for any used vehicle. If the vehicle doesn't pass the inspection it can still be sold , BUT the dealer has to present a copy of the form detailing exactly what's wrong with the vehicle to the customer at the time of sale. Both the customer and the dealer have to sign it, and each keeps a signed copy. That way there's no question as to whether or not the customer is aware of what they are buying.

I don't know where your father in law bought the motorhome and whether or not there are similar rules governing the sales of motor vehicles. If these rules apply you may have some recourse, if not you could have a long uphill battle.

I'm not defending the dealer. It sounds like a pretty shady place, and I certainly would be upset if it happened to me. The sad fact of the matter is these guys probably know exactly how far they can push things before they get into trouble.

[RTegarini]

Information Update:

Motorhome was purchased last October in California, from a large California multi-RV dealer.

I called Winnebago today just to see what information I could get. I was told that Winnebago did have a problem and 2005 and 2006 model-years fell into the range, but the service representative didn't agree that it was a 'known issue' and felt the problem was being overstated by the dealer. Since the motorhome was purchased used, there is no practical way to know if it was a California vehicle or just traded-in from another state at this RV dealers' Southern California store. (It was sent to one of their Northern California store to be sold.) Because of the model-year (2006), mileage (43k miles) and that my father-in-law is the second owner, Winnebago likely wouldn't share in the repair cost. (And again, the real issue isn't the 'how' or 'when' this happened, it's that the selling dealer knew of the problem before delivery and never said a word.) The representative also told me that the windshield is an integral part of the motorhomes front structure, and feels that this situation with the dealer is one of safety and what could have happened if a windshield let-go at speed.

My father-in-law purchased a service contract (extended warranty) but this repair was denied due to it being a 'pre-existing condition'.

The total cost of the repairs was $3,900 but found out today that both the drivers and passenger side windshield frames needed repair. I'm told that not only the top of the frame needed repair (heavy rust and metal decay) but the sides and bottom too.)

I'm hoping over the weekend that we can get a few more posts from people that in fact have had this problem and repair. So far, it doesn't seem to be a huge problem on Winnebago motohomes like the selling dealer claims. -RT

[jabfado]

My take is a simple one having been a Sales Manager in the Auto industry. As is Where is is not a complete out for the dealership if they are aware of the problem prior to sale of the Vehicle...Example: The dealership replaces a faulty water pump on lets say an 2001 Ford Explorer and two weeks later this pump fails. It is the dealers responsibilty to address the situation....Had this case taken to small claims by an individual the he won because the dealership was aware of the problem...

When the windshield was replaced the dealership should have been aware of the problem and made full disclosure to your Father in Law so I would get an Attorney and persue the problem in the Court system or get some satisfaction through small claims.

[John Hilley]

A $4,000 charge would be almost a full week of continuous work for 1 person or two full days for two men at $100/hr plus some repair materials. I really can't believe it would take over 1 day for one man. It would take a couple of days to finish due to drying times, but if they didn't have to provide the glass, $4,000 seems awfully high.

[RTegarini]

RE: "A $4,000 charge would be almost a full week of continuous work for 1 person or two full days for two men at $100/hr plus some repair materials. I really can't believe it would take over 1 day for one man. It would take a couple of days to finish due to drying times, but if they didn't have to provide the glass, $4,000 seems awfully high."

I can't really say one way or the other, since I'm not in the repair business. I do know that the drivers' side glass broke on removal and the glass company is not responsible for breakage upon removal, only installing the glass. It was over $800 just for the drivers' side that broke. The passenger side was replaced too, at my father-in-laws request, due to a 'bulls-eye' that was at the line of sight and was there at delivery, so there's $1,600 just in glass replacement. The motorhome was there for a week and a half, since I didn't see the estimate, I have no idea what the original labor costs were quoted. I guess you could say that the repair costs were around $2,400 if the one side had not broke and he didn't want the other side replaced too, but the glass company told him up front that far more are broken upon removal than survive, so one way or the other you have to factor the potential breakage into the check your going to write for repairs.

Got some photos from my father-in-law: you would have never known what what behind the windshield molding/trim. But the selling dealer did when they changed out the drivers side glass before delivery. The dealer motto must be 'mums the word'.

[Pusherman]

We have repaired more than one Winnebago with windshield rust just like in your photos. The glass companies, as you point out, will not guarantee 'no breakage' upon removal of the windshield; and in fact, they suggest it most likely will break upon removal, due to the fact that Winnebago essentially glues the windshield to the frame (this is a good thing - stronger bond, less vibration, etc.).

It does make the job a little harder. My advice would be to shop around. But be sure to talk to shops who have seen this problem and can repair it properly. Glass companies alone do not necessarily take the time to repair the rust properly. It would require grinding of the metal to remove the rust, preparation of the metal for priming, priming with a good primer, finish paint, and then of course the glass installation.

And since this potentially allows ingress of all kinds of dust and debris into your coach, be sure the shop will take the time to seal and mask off the inside of your coach before this work is completed. All these details add time to the job.

Some shops may recommend removal of the front cap to accomplish the rust abatement job properly. This will definitely add more time to the job.

But yes, it is somewhat of a common problem in Winnebago's.

[TXiceman]

Sounds way too high. Shop around. Since it was sold AS-IS, i would not expect much recourse. You might try small claims court since the dealer had agreed to fix the windshield, and a reasonable assumption would be that it would not leak after the repair.

[lavamanz]

it seems all the Winnebago's have a design problem that allows water to sit in the area above the windshield that will eventually rust the steel pinchweld area around and underneath the windshield.

There are a few things you can do, get the rubber trim off the top of the windshields and remove the piece that holds the rubber trim in and check where you can for rust. Clean the area as best you can and treat the metal with something like rusty metal primer. Once you are satisfied you have "arrested" the rust put the trim piece back in with 3M doublestick outdoor tape.

Next using 3M 191 moisture resistant 1 1/2" black tape, seal across both windshields rubber trim strips at the top. (Scotch® Colored Plastic Tape - Catalog No. 1911-1/2 inch x 125 inch. Super thin, waterproof vinyl plastic tape).

The next thing you want to do is park your vehicle so the front is elevated above the rear forcing water to run to the rear of the unit.

This will keep down most of the problems people are experiencing with there leaks, and when you have your windshield replaced due to rust, do the same thing again with the 3M 191 tape. You can purchase the tape at Ace Hardware stores. I use the white 3M tape if I find a questionable area of roof caulking while on the road. The tape will last a long time, the UV doesn't seem to affect it.

This seems to be a good and inexpensive way around WB's design flaws.

[Huberman]

My 2 cents worth and a question. I agree that the dealership should have made full disclosure of the problem at the time they 1st pulled the windshield, and for Winnebago not to be covering the repairs on these is inexcusable.

I've seen a couple replies here that mention specifice years, ie: 05 - 06 but also saw someone with an 08 that had the issue. Seems like a broader range has the same front cap design, as in our 02 Itasca, which looks identical and I fear I may have the same problem. Fourtunately, or unfortunately, the windshields are in great shape and not in need of replacement. Naturally my fear is that if I have the same issue, it's just going to keep getting worse, without being visible. It seems strange that if the glass is glued in place, as with so many glass applications, and with the quality of the adhesives nowdays, that this should even be an issue!

At any rate, anyone know if the 02 Itasca would for sure fall into this category?

Thanks

Huberman

[Pusherman]

Yep. I would guess all the Winnebago's that have the front windshield glued into place on the metal frame are subject to this issue.

I would not do anything drastic until.... If you develop a leak in the windshield, good chance it's from rust between the frame and glass.

[new2RVn]

I definitely feel your pain. I had a cracked driverside windshield replaced and they discovered the same issue. When they tried to remove the pass. side it broke also. Lucky for me insurance paid for both sides but not the repairs. The entire upper flange had to be cut out and ground down to weld in a new flange(which had to be fabricated by Winnebago because they no longer stock this part for a 2000 model year). My cost was $2600.00 for labor and materials. Thank goodness the windshields were covered as they are about $1300.00 ea. installed.

Being retired means you can put off till tomorrow what you could have done today

[RedGrizz]

We had this issue with our 2005 Voyage
Started with a leak at the top of the windshield.
I chose to do the rust repair myself, I had a mobile glass guy pull both windshields then I used an angle die grinder tool with 3M Roloc sanding discs for the rough areas and finish prepped with a Red Scotch Brite Roloc disc. I then painted the metal with POR-15 rust preventative paint. POR15, Inc. - Stop Rust Permanently - Repair Gas & Fuel Tanks
It turned out great. I then had the glass installed by the glass guy. My part took about 3 hours. I would suggest questioning the products used for the rust repair, The POR-15 is a very good product. Some paints or fillers may not work as well for the long term.
Our coach was from Washington where it is more humid and we live in the high desert so I expect the repair to hold.
If you suspect this may be an issue with your coach you should check it out as letting it go can cause potentially severe rust damage to the metal windshield frame.
Best wishes to the Winnebago windshield club members.
RG

[Luckiest Dreamer]

Originally Posted by RTegarini

Hello Everyone;

I need some help from fellow Winnebago Sightseer (and similar models) owners. My father-in-law recently purchased a used 2006 Winnebago Sightseer on a Ford chassis. When negotiating the purchase, it was noted that a windshield needed replacement, which the dealer agreed to do. Purchase papers were signed but my father-in-law did not take actual delivery of the mothorhome until all agreed upon repairs were competed. So far, so good...

After the first rain, it was discovered that the replaced windshield was leaking and when contacted, the dealer would not make any inspections or repairs since it was sold 'as-is', even though they had just replaced that windshield. The motorhome was taken to a local glass company that can handle motorhome replacement windshield glass. The big surprise came that after the 'newly replaced' windshield was pulled out, it turns out that there is extensive damage due to a long-term leak and rust. The frame was so rusted and damaged that repairs of approximately $4k are need to grind down, fill, prime and repaint the frame so as to make it whole so the windshield not only won't leak, but that it won't fall out while driving down the road. The selling rv dealer of course knew all of this when they themselves changed out the windshield before delivery but never disclosed it to my father-in-law. (They didn't farm out the windshield replacement work.)

My father-in-law contacted the selling dealer and while for a few days it looked like they would take some share of ownership, today my father-in-law was told that even though they saw the damage before delivery, they had no responsibility in disclosing it. Further, the dealer, which has multiple Winnebago franchises, claims that this is a common and known problem to Winnebago and based on that, that absolves them of any liability, including seeing the damage prior to delivery but not sharing the information with the buyer. Interestingly, this same shop likely would have been all over the 'needed repairs' if my father-in-law had owned the motorhome for some time and then came in to have the windshield replaced. As soon as they popped out the windshield and saw the frame, they would have been calling him with a revised estimate to repair the rusted frame, telling him "...it's dangerous... the windshield could fall out."

So, what's your take... buyer beware, or should they have shared the information of the windshield frame damage when replacing the windshield? The basic question isn't who's at fault, if anybody, that it was leaking, it's that the seller came across the problem before delivery and chose not to say a word, knowing that it would be a costly repair and probably thought my father-in-law wouldn't know about it for years.

Is this leaking windshield rotting out the frame a 'known, common problem' with Winnebago products in this vintage of motorhomes? I'm sure there are plenty of owners here that have had windshields replaced: major frame damage and needed repairs?

Thanks in advance for any replies and insights. -RT

Not a lawyer, just a consumer reading a forum about an unhappy new owner!
It seems to me that the dealer did not sell a MH "as is" he sold a MH 'as is" after specific repairs were made and he did it poorly. His argument that Winnebago has a long standing problem has nothing to do with what happened. It is the repair work that is the problem and he did not do it well. I believe your father-in -law needs a lawyer! The problem your father-in -law may have is the repairs should have been in writing on the offer to buy and the "as is" seems to be what he agreed on.