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Old 04-17-2021, 01:18 PM   #1
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I ADDED A 8,000 BTU Portable AC To My 2004 Itasca Horizon 40AD

My 2004 Itasca "Horizon" 40AD has a Coleman-Mach (2-Ton) Basement AC, and I prefer this type of AC over those noisy rooftop ACs.

This basement AC unit has 2 heat pumps. Stage 1 draws ~14A (compressor #1) and ~25A when Stage1+2 is running.

So that puts a good 25-28A load on my Onan 7500 Generator with my residential refrigerator and TV and computer powered up, but this generator can handle it. I.e., my basement AC starts and restarts just fine in hot weather. And it burns about .9 gal/hr of diesel fuel at this load. What I do not know is how my generator will handle running 33A and if load balancing is a concern?

Note: My Onan 7500 is a pure sine wave generator, but it uses “inverter technology” and I think load balancing is important when you get above 15A. I’m not real clear about this, but I know Winnebago wired my L1 and L2 (50A) lines to achieve the best load balancing as they can... and I will be conducting some current measurements with both my basement AC running and my portable AC running at the same time… just as soon as I find some hotter weather (80+F), because right now it’s 72F outside, and I can’t really conduct power management calculations when the weather is this cold. So I will need to post a follow-up thread.

FIRST LET ME SAY A FEW WORDS ABOUT HOW YOU CAN IMPROVE THE COOLING OF YOUR BASEMENT AC

When Winnebago ran venting ducts up the rear cap they did NOT insulate them and consequently many owners complain their Coleman-Mach (2-Ton) Basement AC does not cool down their coach every well. However, it’s not the AC that is the problem. Rather, it’s more likely you have cracks in the tape that seals off the venting duct work on top of cooling losses due to poor or no duct insulation... and 30 feet of ducting in the roof, which all de-rates the cooling inside the RV.

So step one would be to inspect your ducts where the cold air exits the AC' and then I covered that 90-degree elbow duct with butyl-metal Water Proof Tape made by “Duck” ...which BTW I have only found this stuff at Walmart. And then for added measure I sprayed 2 cans of Flex-Seal over that entire area for added insulation. And this helped alot!

NOW LETS GET TO SUBJECT OF WHY I DECIDED TO ADD A PORTABLE AC

* On 100F days I’m mostly comfortable in my RV with both the Coleman compressors in my basement AC running, but it could be colder. Ideally, I would like to see 72F-76F inside the RV vs. 78-80F I now get.

The problem is on 95F+ days it gets to about 82 inside my RV; and when humidity is high it would also be nice to have more BTU’s of cooling at my disposal. So I came up with the idea of adding a supplemental 8,000 of BTU’s (rated at 6,000 BTU DOE).

* I selected the 8,000 BTU unit, because I think this is all I need as a supplement unit to my existing basement ACs; and I like that it runs at 6A-8A, and is 50-52dB, which is pretty quiet and on the low side for an AC.

Here is a link to the Lowe’s website for more information about this GE-8,000 BTU AC ($320):

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hisense-His...EER/5000144433

LOCATION

* I am fortunate to have 2 choices on where I install this portable AC unit and both were based on having access to a wind so I can exhaust the hot air out of the AC.

Option 1 was to put it next to my couch. And all I needed to do was insert a piece of wood (see last picture below) as a shim so the sliding window can butt up against the AC’s window mounting kit (exhaust port).

Option 2 was to mount the AC in the bedroom where I have a tip-out window.

I decided to go with Option 2, because a) I did not want to listen to the AC in the living room; and b) I can store the AC unit between my bed and my closet when I’m driving; and c) I think putting the AC close to the basement AC air vent may be the most efficient. (TBD)

...Besides, I will be using the basement AC fan to distribute the cooled air to the front of the RV anyway -- and maybe on somedays, I will not need to run both stages of the basement AC when I have the portable AC on. TBD. If this is the case then maybe NOT running the basement AC or just running Stage 1 will help to prolong the life of my Coleman-Mach unit. (In theory anyway.)

SO DOES IT WORK?

Answer: I don’t know yet, because we just had a cold spell in south Texas and it’s not humid outside now, but next week I will be heading towards El Paso and Yuma and then Las Vegas and Montana, so there are plenty of hot days ahead. So I will be sure to add follow-up posts at some point.

For now, I am very pleased with how easy this project was to do. And if adding a supplement 8K-BTU-AC proves to be a good upgrade, then I will run a dedicated 120V extension cord (or romex) to power this GE-Portable AC off the 20A service plug at shore power, so I don’t put an additional 8A load on my 50A service.

Note: I will also be inspecting my Automatic Transfer Switch neutral return wires too. Why? ...When I have my basement AC running in conjunction with this portable AC since I will be pushing 33A – 35A, so I want to make sure my Onan 7500 can handle this and that goes for my ATS too.

Note: I'm not sure if newer ATS relays can handle 33A for years of service, but that's another discussion. This is why I want to stick with the old style 50A, 8-pin relays in my Parallax AST-5070 and not use the more modern designs.

QUESTIONS

Can anyone explain the concept of “load balancing” and what concerns there may or may not exist when using an Onan 7500 Generator with “inverter technology.”
Note: This Onan calls for a 70A-Neutral, but what they mean by that is that each leg off the generator stator is 35A for a total of 70A... but the ATS is marketed as a 70A neutral.

Is load balancing a real factor?

Why?

ANOTHER OPTION TO USING THE PORTABLE AC

I was thinking I might be able to just run my Basement AC on Stage 1 (aka L1) together with this portable 8K-BTU-AC on L2 for load balancing, and not run the Coleman Stage 2 (aka compressor #2). This will keep the current loads down to under 25A total, and I bet this portable AC will provide better cooling than one stage of the basement AC.

…So I will need to check if my bedroom AC wall plug on the end of my dresser is connected to L2 or L1 in my circuit panel. (TBD)

INSTALLATION TIPS

* Make A template first, and then use it to cut your finished piece of wood or better still get a ridged 1/4" vinyl plank. (Start with a rectangle 6-1/8" x 24-3/4")

* Use the template to trim mark the corners on the good plank and add a notches to clear the window hardware.

* Then insulate it with a black, round rubber strip of weather proofing. (Note: You buy this weather proofing material as a double strip and then you split it down the center.)

* The last picture of wood is for the window over the couch, if you decide to go that route. (29-1/8" long x 3-1/2")

That’s all for now. The total cost was ~$360 and the pictures below will show you how I cut out the wood (or ¼” vinyl planks) to shim up against the AC window kit.
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Old 04-17-2021, 04:27 PM   #2
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Pictures of the GE 6100-BTU DOE (8000-BTU ASHRAE) 115-Volt White Portable Air Conditioner... which says it will cool 250 sq-ft, but that's in a home, which has better insulation than an RV.

Still, I think this 8000 BTU (6100 BTU-DOE) will work well as a supplemental AC since I already have a 2-ton basement AC.

Note: 2-tons is supposed to be the equivalent to 24,000 BTU (or 12,000 BTU/ton), but due to RV efficiency losses I bet this is why you will not see Winnebago suggesting your basement AC is rated for 24,000 BTU.

* Again, these pictures show where I will store the AC when I'm driving. And I can easily roll it out of the way with my slides out. I can also roll it to run next to my couch, but I'm hoping that will not be necessary on 105F days. (TBD)

As you can see in the picture below, I removed the chair that would normally go between the couch and the kitchen, and those 4-storage boxes you can get at Ikea. I particularly like the wine rack and which plastic storage boxes you can and to this mini credenza.
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Old 04-26-2021, 11:03 AM   #3
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Update: I like my portable air conditioner (8,000 btu)

UPDATE: I LIKE MY PORTABLE AIR CONDITIONER (8,000 BTU)


I have been camping on the beach in Port Aransas, which is one of my favorite spots to go when the weather is clear and the wind is not too strong, and today its been 85F outside with 50-70% humidity, and this is what I learned about my new portable AC:

* The 52-54dB of sound is very acceptable and the generator noise will over shadow it.

* For the same temperature, I found high humidity (70%) is harder to cool down with a portable AC vs. lower humidity (50%).

* I found that if you put the portable AC where it blows on you, it doesn't matter how hot or humid it is, you will get chilled down real quick -- thanks to Newton's Law of Cooling.

* This portable AC with 8000 BTUs uses 7A on low and 8A on high fan speed.

* I can run a combination of things with the portable AC on, but I would not recommend you running a lot of things at the same time. For example, when boondocking you probably want you generator to charge your house batteries while you run you air conditioner so you can camp with power overnight so that will cost you 4-12Aac depending on how you set your charger which reads 20A-90Adc to your battery on your display panel.

* If you decide to add a portable AC I think 8,000 BTU (@8A) is the way to go, but you could go to 10,000 BTUs if you watch your power consumption. I don't know if you need 10K-BTUs, but like having more HP... more BTU is most certainly preferred in the right hands!

* Your 50A service has to go through an ATS and I have come to the conclusion that while it can operate for a short while at 28+ amps, that does not mean you want to run for hours with this load. In fact, the contacts in the 50A relay should not (IMO) be pushed beyond 55% of it's rated capacity, which in my case is ~28A.

...or you probably will shorten the life of your ATS, and generator if load balancing becomes an issue. (I can't speak to that, but maybe other people can. I.e., What does the average RVer need to know about load balancing when they start running at the higher end of their generator's output?)

* And did you know there are a lot of so-called 50A ATS boxes being sold that say they are for 50A service, but inside they use 40A relays, which means these newer ATS boxes should not be run above 22A for extended periods of time. (And now you know why so many people are replacing their new ATS after just 1-2 years.)


CONFIGURATION A: Since I know I need AC for 10hour/day I will set my battery charger to 20Aac which will cost me 4A-HRs-DC.

Battery Charger 4A - 8A
Portable Air Conditioner 8A
Hot Water Element 12A - 0A
Residential Frig 2A
Desk Fan 1A
TV 2A
TOTAL 28A - 16A

CONFIGURATON B: Running High Load Current

* What if I ran just my basement AC with my 8A Portable AC?

==> I tried this for a while, but had to back off when my Amp meter shot up from 28A to 35A. So the short story is that I wouldn't do this.

The longer story is that I have an old Parallax ATS-5070 that uses the old style, Heavy Duty, 50A, 8-Pin relays with contacts, which is good. As good as it gets almost until you spend a fortune and get a 100A ATS from Parallax for big bucks.

Anyway, I ran my generator at 28-29A for 2 hours with the basement AC running both compressors and my portable AC running too. But as I explained, my amp meter shot up to 35A for no other obvious reason. So I can only assum my ATS contact-points were getting hot, and probably the wires too! So I shut the system down before I burned up my ATS box.

Consequently, I can't recommend running the basement AC on 2-compressors with the portable AC under generator power, and when you have shore power, I thing you should use an extension cord to power the portable AC separately or wire-in a separate outlet just for your portable AC.

And that means: Just because your service says it is rated for 50A, that does not mean you can run more than 28-29A safely for a long period of time. Further, I think it can be said... running less amps is always "easier/better" on/for your system and your generator!

What about Vent Temperature with and without the portable AC running?

==> So with my portable AC located next to the Washer-Dryer in the bedroom, you can see I got colder vent temperatures by pointing the basement AC so that it shoots cold air into the basement AC intake register. (See pictures.)

* The outside temperature was 77F with 70% humidity. And with the portable pointed forward the kitchen vent temperature was 55F.

* Then I turned the basement AC around so the cold air out of the portable would blow into the Basement AC intake an the temperature at that kitchen vent dropped to 47.9F and at one point I got 47.3F, which is a -29-30F drop.

* Now you would think this is good, but the ambient temperature around the coach windows remained at 75F... and ideally you want 72F with the added benefit of these AC dehumidifying the air in the RV. ...But you can't get that. Therefore you need to use a fan or point the portable AC so it blows close to you.

My conclusion: All these AC systems are only good for a -20F drop. ...But apparently you can fool the basement AC (a matter of speech, because you can't really fool physics) by directing the cold air out of the portable AC into the basement AC and you will get -29F, which is 77F outside let 48F out the vent, which is temperature drop of -29F.

* Wait... I'm not done! It turns out that it's better if you put the portable AC next to the couch for reasons I will explain below.

CONFIGURATION C -- A BETTER SOLUTION:

==> Turn the breaker-off that feeds the #2 Compressor in your Basement AC.

==> Or don't run your basement AC at all. I found if you start your portable AC at 80F, just like your RV basement or roof top ACs, it will hold the temperature better throughout the day! And in Port Aransas, today I did not need the basement AC and I just ran the portable AC at 8A. Plus the portable was more efficient since it was not losing all that cold air to 40' of basement AC vents in the ceiling.

==> For the best cooling, I moved the portable AC from the bedroom window area to the window next to the couch. (See picture below.) And then you can run any number of AC appliances you want, but again, my recommendation is to stay at 55% of your ATS rated ability or 28A, which ever is lower.

Battery Charger 6A - 4A
Portable Air Conditioner 8A
Residential Frig 2A
TV 2A
TOTAL 18A

* And when you need to heat-up your hot water, just use gas.

* And if you need more battery charging you can crack it up!

* Just remember your generator is burning diesel at .5 to .9 GPH, so make sure you have enough fuel before you camp for 2-4 days, which is limited by how much water you consume more than anything.

* And with the portable AC in the front part of the RV you get the advantage of Newton's Law of Cooling, because the cold air will be blowing around you.

WHAT ABOUT 100F+ TEMPERATURE?

* I'm not sure how this 8,000 BTU will perform in hot climates, because I have not tested it. However, next week I will be in Arizona and Rocky Point, MX and I will report back. However, one plus is that the humidity will be real low so that should make cooling the inside of the RV easier. I think.

CONFIGURATION D: When You Are Not Boondocking and have shore power

==> Use a 14 gauge 50' extension cord and power the portable AC off the separate 20A plug at the shore power post. This will isolate the portable AC power from the 50A service to your basement AC and you run them all if you want.

==> You now know you can put the portable AC in the front cabin and you can put it in the back cabin, but I would prefer to put it in the bedroom in front of the Washer-Dryer, because then you don't see the ugly exhaust venting out the window above the coach.

==> For better cooling in the front cabin, turn the portable AC so it blows cold air into your basement AC register. And then let your basement AC fan distribute the cold air throughout the cabin.


SO WHATS THE BEST SOLUTION?

* I'm working on that. I think it is wise to have a separate 20A power source when you have shore power. So I recommend adding one... by hiding a long extension cord or routing protective 12 gauge wire to a wall socket you install.

* And then you need to hide that exhaust hose to the window above the couch. To do this you need to cut a hole in your side wall or floor, if I go this route I will let you know how I accomplish it. So stay tuned.
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Old 05-04-2021, 11:42 PM   #4
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The perfect place for my new 8,000 btu portable ac

THE PERFECT PLACE FOR MY NEW 8,000 BTU PORTABLE AC

Right now I am visiting Rocky Point, MX, which if you follow some my threads then you know I call this place an "RV DAY SPA," because you can get all sorts of RV services here – performed by knowledgeable BV Body & Paint specialist – at a great price!

In fact, I trust Carlos Hernandez and Pablo to do the best body & paint work found anywhere! …And today Carlos installed a portable AC to my specifications. …And everything turned out 100% perfect!

SEE ATTACHED PICTURES TO KNOW WHERE I PUT IT – AND NOW I AM READY FOR 100F+ WEATHER!

...And get this, I just learned they also spray truck bed liners (not Rhino Liner, but another brand just as good and much less expensive). ...and in my case, I going to have them spray their Rhino-Like-Liner on my front grill to hide all the road chip marks!

PORTABLE AC INSTALLATION NOTES

* I found that blowing low AC temperatures is one thing, but to feel truly “cold” or “comfortable” when when it is hot outside, you also need "blowing cold air" all around you. This is why fans work wonders, and when combined with Air Conditioning you now have the perfect storm!

* It is preferable to locate your portable AC in the front cabin.

* And you don't want to vent the hot air out the window, because then you can't close your day-night shades. Plus the hot exhaust tube looks ugly and stupid, hillbilly style I was not gunning for.

* Now my 8,000 BTU is my primary AC and I have it plugged into a wall socket that was already there, and I didn’t even know it! It’s like Winnebago knew back in 2004 that someone was going to put a portable AC in the credenza; and 17 years later… I did!
* I don’t think you want a 10,000 BTU supplemental AC, because this GE 8,000 BTU model only pulls 8A; and at that rate, you could run it on battery power if you have a PSW inverter.

* Next I will address load balancing, but this doesn’t seem to be a problem when you are plugged into short power. However, I still have to do come load measurements on generator power, which is more important when it comes to distributing the loads evenly across L1 & L2 so the stator in the generator is not loaded asymmetrically… any more than necessary… and when you are running at max-loads this maybe where I look into powering the portable AC off a separate extension cord, to 30A or 20A service. (TBD)

AMP DRAW WITH ALL 3 AC-COMPRESSORS RUNNING ON SHORE POWER

*L1 = Portable AC + Basement AC Compressor #1 = 19A.

L2 = Basement AC Compressor #2 + Hot Water Heater Element or Microwave = 22-24A

Total L1 & L2 = 31A and you don’t want to do this on Generator Power, because your ATS has contacts inside that fail over time (1-year possibly) if you operate the ATS at these high loads. I.e., IMO, 50A generators should only be run at 25A for an extended amount of time, for reasons I will not go into now.

 On the other hand, when running on 30A service, using a “dog-bone” to connect L1 to L2, this also has the advantage of the Intelletic EMS-620 system to safeguard your loads. (This is if its working properly?)
Anyway, I’m still not sure if I should run a separate power line to the shore power pole to by-pass my RV AST and 50A service? TBD. Does any know which is the better way to go when on Shore Power.

 And on generator power, I just have to remember to run the portable AC up front and just 1 basement AC compressor at the same time. To do this is easy: Just turn off the 20A AC Circuit #2 in the breaker box and no more power to the basement AC compressor #2. Problem solved.
Now I’m almost ready for 105-110F Las Vegas weather!
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Old 05-04-2021, 11:47 PM   #5
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....Continued: More pictures.

And in a couple days I will ask Carlos to paint the external air vent to match my body paint.

And the 49.4F thermostat shows how cold the 8,000 BTU GE Portable AC is blowing when it was 80F OAT. This is a temperature drop of -24.7F.

So at 100F, I will see if I can get 76F out of the vents. TBD.

SUMMARY

On 80-90F days, I now can just run the portable AC and run my basement AC fans to distribute the air inside the RV.

The bedroom air temperature is going to be a little warmer, but I really don't care about that during the day since I'm always in the front part of the coach during these times.

And when it gets hotter, I then just turn on the basement AC compressor #1; and if it gets real hot I can turn on the basement AC compressor #1 & 2.

* I think when I'm on generator power, I should only turn on compressor #2 and run my portable AC on circuit #1. This will help with load balancing. However, I have not tested that out yet.

Can you start the basement AC only on compressor #2 by shutting off the CB to Circuit #1?
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Old 05-05-2021, 02:16 PM   #6
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Best Wiring Practices When Adding A Portable AC to your RV With 50A Service

UPDATE: Today I wanted to see if I can only run my Basement AC on Compressor #2 (Circuit #2)?

I attempted this by turning "off" the CB to Circuit #1, hoping that the Basement AC would start on only Compressor #2, but to no avail.

Turns out the fan motor get's it's AC power off Circuit #1. So no power to Circuit #1 means no fan (blower motor dead), which means the circuit board in the basement AC will not start Compressor #2.

On the other hand, I can easily run the basement AC with just Compressor #1 working, but cutting power to Circuit #2 -- just turn "off" the Circuit Breaker (CB) to the #2 basement AC compressor.

SO NOW WHAT?

* The problem is that most of my daily AC loads (plus my 8A Portable AC) are all on Circuit 1 aka L1 at the shore power post.

* My concern is that this is not going to be ideal when I run the generator, because it's always better to distribute the loads as even as possible, aka "load balancing."

SOLUTIONS

A) I first considered this: Just re-route the wires that currently connect the passenger side wall outlet wires... currently connected to the Inverter sub-panel... and then route this wire that powers the portable AC (wall socket) to the Main Panel L2 side... so it now receives power on L2.

...But then I realized, none of these outlets on L2 would work when I am on inverter power, because the Sub-Main CB only receive power on L1 and then in the coach they call it Circuit #1.

So now I'm considering this:

B) I add an additional outlet box next to my AST-5070, and wire it to the L2 power terminal inside the ATS; and then run an extension cord to the portable AC so it always runs on L2.

This way when I'm on generator power my Portable AC will be on L2, which should give me better load balancing, when I am also running my Basement AC; and/or...

C) When I want to run all 3 compressors on shore power I just add an extension cord to the 20A outlet to power the portable AC separately...

...And carry a 30a to 20A converter cord just in case those 20A outlets are not working... cuz I have seen some pretty ugly and corroded 20A outlet at some RV parks, but the 30A outlet is usually working.

...And this way I do NOT burden my 50A service through my ATS and put 30A+ on the L1 Circuit.

I will post pictures when I complete this wiring project.
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Old 05-10-2021, 10:59 PM   #7
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This project is almost over. It really did not take that much work. Just a lot of thinking things through and luck was on my side.

* I used a good stud-finder I picked up at HD for $25 that has a "Deep Scan" setting and this let me pin point the aluminum in the walls. Or so I think. What I know is that when I drilled a hole in my side wall I did not hit any side wall support or electrical wires.

* I did not use a hole saw and this turns out to be a good idea unless you have one already. Just drill a few 1/16" holes around the parameter of where you intend to drill a 6" hole to verify what you think your stud-finder is telling you; and then drill four 3/8" holes so you can maneuver your jig saw with a steel tooth blade around the circle.

RESULTS

This GE 8,000 BTU Portable AC puts more "blowing" cold air into the main cabin, and it fits like a glove in my cabinet. Honestly, it as meant to be.

Moreover, if I were to ever loose my basement AC, I probably would put a 10,000 BTU in the lounge area (no higher than 27-3/4" high, and an 8,000 BTU in the closet and drill a hole though the closest back wall to vent it out the rear cap. And for less than $800 you would have a real cold RV... and I would keep the Basement AC blower motors working off the thermostat to recirculate and filter the air. This I can imagine to be a real winning combination.

The noise of the GE 8,000 BTU Portable AC is just as they said. It's between 53dB-55dB depending on the fan speed. (I checked with my dB meter.) And FYI, your Onan 7500 generator puts out 70db. So the GE Portable AC is more like "white noise" that would help you sleep if you put one of these into the bedroom closet. (I'm just saying... cuz I haven't done that.)

The GE 8K-BTU is only 8A too and has it's own soft start kit built in so you will only see about 10A-12A on start-up. This almost makes it usable with a PSW inverter and solar... with LiFeO4 batteries if you put 200AH in your basement (which I just might do next summer) and I will keep my existing FLA power grid and old style Dimensions Inverter as-is.

Back to my installation notes for this GE 8K Portable AC:


* Winnebago put an outlet for me to plug the portable AC in! Now isn't that nice of them!

However, the wall sockets on the passengers side of my RV are all on Circuit #1. This includes my residential refrigerator. And when I run the Basement AC on Compressor #1 only, I'm pulling 28A-29A on Circuit #1, which is more than I really want.

So as things are now, L1=28-29A, and on Circuit #2... L2=0A; not counting my hot water heater element on Circuit #2 or when I run my vacuum, which I never run.

* My microwave is on Circuit #1 too and it pulls 10A-12A. ...And sometimes I do want to run my microwave when I'm running both the Portable AC and the Basement AC, but I really don't want to see 38A on Circuit #1; and I really don't want to turn off my portable AC when I want to run my microwave.

SOLUTION TO REDUCING AMPS ON L1 AND ADDING AMPS TO L2

I need to install a separate outlet for my Portable AC to run off L2, and wire it to my main panel where there is room for an additional Circuit 2 (L2) 15A breaker.

===

You might ask, why don't I just route Receptacle #1 to the Main Power Panel and add another CB to Circuit #2 (L2)? ...Well, I could do that, but then all my Receptacle #1 loads, including my refrigerator, will not get inverter power when I'm driving or boondocking without my generator running.

Remember, your inverter only supplies power to the Inverter Power Panel (aka Sub-Main Panel).

Overall, I am ecstatic about this upgrade and with 85F temperature it's actually too cold to run all three compressors at once! ...Which more than I hoped for!

* And much of the time I only will run my basement AC fans or just the basement compressor #1.

* So with the Portable AC this should extend the life of my basement AC and reduce my basement AC maintenance costs too.

* This GE 8K Portable AC costs just $349 at Lowe's and I only had to buy the 6" exhaust vent on Amazon for $12. So this has to be one of the best upgrades I have every come up with.
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Old 05-11-2021, 08:30 AM   #8
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Wow! Some wire-up! Hope it works for you.
We tried a similar portable unit one miserable triple digit summer (exhausted out driver window) but noticed only minimal benefit.
Observations not noticed in your write-up:
- in your 50a service, L1=50a and L2=50a for a total of 100a
- your 7500 generator will provide apx 62a (W/V=A)
- in my coach, the washer/dryer outlet is on L2
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Old 05-11-2021, 11:24 PM   #9
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AFChap: This portable AC upgrade is already working for me! ..And it looks great, because you don't even know it's there; and it's quiet!

Mind you, I'm in Rocky Point, Mexico right now and the OAT is 85F and it's relatively dry heat. Also the on shore breeze is cool. So I'm not yet in Las Vegas weather!

In a couple weeks I will be passing though Phoenix and Las Vegas and temperatures should be in 100's; so we shall see how things work? And I will most certainly post these results.

As for how many amps I want to run, I am okay on shore power with most of my loads (aka amps draw) on L1 being much higher than L2, with one exception... I don't like putting more than 28A on any circuit that goes through my ATS... and that means I can't run the microwave on Circuit #1 with my portable AC plugged in the Receptacle #1 outlet as-is. So my next post will explain how I will run a separate power cord from my ATS Circuit #2 to the portable AC to more evenly distribute my L1 and L2, which will be good when I am on generator power.

So while you may sight what 50A service means "at the shore power plug," that does not mean you should let your amps exceed a continuous 28A of load, IMHO, and for good reason.

From the ATS point of view, when you buy an ATS box for 50A-Service, they don't tell you how long they can run at 50A do they?

Moreover, the answer depends on the type of loads you run. I.e., you can run a higher resistive load thru your ATS, like a space heater vs. inductive loads... like your air conditioner and microwave.

But let's face it: The only time you ever run more than 20A in your RV on any circuit, at any one time, is when you are running your air conditioners, which I as pointed out are inductive loads.

On the other hand, newer 50A-ATS boxes claim 50A-Service, but they are now using 40A Contactors; and contactors are only good for continuous power at 63% on resistive loads and 40% on inductive loads.

So this is why a lot of owners are burning-up their new 50A-Service ATS boxes.

The best ATS every shipped for 50A-Service were the Parlalax ATS-5070, which they stopped making back in 2012; and any of the Elkhart or other brands that use Deltrol Controls Relays, which you can still buy through Galco Distributors and there is a very reputable seller of Deltrol Controls on Ebay.

BTW, I ordered a new 50A-ATS-Service box and returned when I saw what type of Chinese cheap-relays they were using; and I'm not a fan of contactors.

Anyway, this thread is about adding a Portable AC to your RV and where you can hide it for maximum pleasure and value and comfort.

Why your portable AC was not affective is probably because you de-rated the effectiveness of it by using a window insert, or there are other reasons. I'm telling you I love this upgrade and if my Coleman-Mach ever "craped-out" I would put 2 GE-8,000 BTU air conditioners in my coach and run the basement AC blower fans.

Specifically, the GE-8000-BTU-AC put cold air in my lounge area and I can feel the Basement AC blowers sucking it back to the bedroom... where it supplements the the basement AC cooling by another -25F.

This means I am now running 75F inside the cabin where before I was running 80F with just my basement AC two compressor running.
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Old 05-14-2021, 11:02 AM   #10
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Carlos and Pablo (at The Reef RV Park in Puerto Penasco, MX) painted my portable AC Vent to match the colors of my passenger side wall. It looks great!

Note: I bought several 6" vents to know which one is best. The best one came from Amazon since it allowed for the biggest air opening. I.e., the vent from HD and the other vent from Lowe's both took a 6" opening and reduced it to 4". The Amazon vent reduced it to about 5". And the Amazon vent had a slimmer profile and was all plastic.

I also recommend you cut your vent rectangle about 3/16 bigger so you can cover the vent with filter material you cut out from a larger piece (14x16 for example).

I also painted the vent with Rustoleum Paint "Smokey Beige."

=== FUNCTIONALITY ===

This Portable AC is taking the temperature of the inside air (75F-85F+ where I am at now) and is reducing it by -25F degrees or so. And if you stand or sit anywhere near the portable AC it will feel cold, just like when you are driving and your engine AC vents are blowing cold air on you.

In hotter weather of 90F-105F, I expect the same drop in portable AC cooling, but I will also have the basement AC working to reduce the inside temperature to 80-82F.

So once again, with the portable AC running, I should be experiencing a -25F drop all around the lounge area where I put the portable AC. And as this 60F cold air is dispersed throughout the cabin, this is why is works so well. And in 100-110F heat, I bet a supplemental fan will be needed.

So in the hot sun that is beating down on my RV, with only R11 insulation in the walls and a lot of double-pane windows that are not that thermal efficient. The perimeter (inside) the RV will be around 77F, but the cooling around the portable AC will be between 55F and 65F, and that's much more comfortable.

I think the key to this project are to hide the AC in the cabinet, and that makes the exhaust a short 8" to the side wall. Therefore, no heat is reintroduced into the RV from the hot AC exhaust.

And since these ACs don't need draining, I did not install a drain tube. However, there is room in the cabinet for a drain pain in the event I am using the RV in Florida humidity and the portable AC can not evaporate the AC water condensation fast enough.

The last step in this process will be to run a 50' extension cord to my ATS-5070 and connect it to Circuit #2. This is so the 8A from the portable AC is not on Circuit #1 with all my other inverter loads in the Sub-Panel.

Note: If I start doing more boondocking, and if I ever install a separate 200AH of LiFeO4 batteries, with a separate power grid, ATS, and PSW inverter... and add 2 more solar panels on my roof; I think this portable AC will be the way to GO GREEN in the future.
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Old 05-14-2021, 03:07 PM   #11
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Great looking install…looks OEM!
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Old 05-16-2021, 12:41 AM   #12
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Thank you.

I hope this post explains why it is so much better to stuff a portable AC inside a cabinet vs. venting it out a window (bedroom or living area).

I also think the plastic AC exhaust hose adds heat to the room when it is 4-6' long. But when you hide the AC the exhaust port is only 8-9" long and you can wrap insulation around it for more thermal efficiency.

Today, I routed 50' of 14 gauge extension cord from my portable AC to my ATS-5070, where I will add an outlet and wire it, with a 15A circuit breaker, to my L2 out line.

Note: I can't find a 15A push-to-rest 120V breaker in Mexico; and so you will just have to visualize a hole below the 15A outlet I stalled on top of my ATS-5070 box. ...And all I will have to do is drill a hole, install the breaker, and wire it to the terminal block inside the ATS.

And when I have shore power, I will run a short extension cord to the 15A power pole or I will use a 30A-15A/20A adapter.

This will put the 8A portable AC load on Circuit #2, which is to say it will run on the L2-50A Service black wire; and the 15A breaker is there to protect the 14 gauge extension cord wire in the event of a short.

To read more details regarding my reasons to put my portable AC load (8A) on Circuit #2 (L2 black wire) you can go to this thread:

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3895583
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Old 05-16-2021, 10:53 AM   #13
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15A Circuit Breaker for 120V

Here's the $7 push-to-reset circuit breaker on Amazon. I'm posting it so you can see it does not look like your home CB, but it does the same thing.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...UGKI63QO&psc=1

If you get a bigger AC than 8,000 BTU (8A) and run a 14 gauge, 50' extension cord inside your RV, then I would use a 12 gauge extension cord and a 20A push-to-reset CB.

Remember, the CB is there to protect the wire from burning up and starting a fire. It is not designed to keep you from getting shocked or electrocuted.

Side note: As you can see in the previous post, I removed that 6x9 speaker so this would be a good time to replace it!
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Old 06-14-2021, 07:22 PM   #14
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Today to got around to installing a 15A circuit breaker inside the ATS-5070 box, and some of you maybe wondering why I did this?

Answer: I wanted all the following options and I did not want the portable AC to run on Circuit #1 with all the other RV loads on Circuit #1.

MORE DETAILS

* It is easier to run a hot wire from the main cabin location, where the portable AC is loctated, to the ATS box vs. running it to bedroom where the Main Circuit Breaker Box is located.

* I also wanted the portable AC to run on Circuit #2 and by adding an outlet to the ATS-5070 cover plate I was able to easily tie into Circuit #2.

* I used a 14-gauge extension cord and I'm protecting it with a Push-Button-15A-CB; and when I have access to shore power, I can now power the portable AC off the 20A Shore Power outlet by adding another 25'-50' of extension cord and now the portable AC has nothing to do with my 50A RV Service.

* And when I am tying into a 15A house outlet, I can power-up the portable AC using another 50' extension cord and I don't have to worry about blowing an CB in the home.

* And the biggest reason for wanting the portable AC powered-up on Circuit #2, is that the generator will have a more balanced load with regards to Circuit #1 being more equal to Circuit #2 when I have the basement AC running at the same time and then I want to run another appliance, like the microwave on Circuit #1.
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Old 07-30-2021, 11:30 AM   #15
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Did you find that by putting it on circuit 2 you don't have much of a increase of amps on the digital display at the command center? I added the 20amp outlet to the ATS similar to how you did it. I started the generator, turned on the RV AC (display read about 22 amps). Then I plugged the car trailer in and turned on the 13.5K AC on low. Went inside and read the display and it was still reading 22 amps. The AC on the trailer was definitely working as it was 95 degrees outside.
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Old 07-30-2021, 05:13 PM   #16
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bjboles: When I "tapped" into the ATS by adding a 15A wall socket, I effectively added a new circuit or branch in parallel. Let's call it Circuit #3.

The rest of the RV loads are separated into Circuit #1 and Circuit #2 connections that are protected by circuit breakers in their respective power panels, but all of these use a common Neutral Wire that runs from the ATS to the Main Circuit Panel.

And if you look inside your main panel you will see the larger aluminum, white wire that is connected to the neutral bus bar... and in this area you will find the neutral wire has a coil/clamp on it that picks up the combined amps on L1 & L2. The thing is "combined" means adding both positive and negative phase currents and sometimes these cancel out. I.e., +14A -9A = 5A total.

Side Note: I think the idea of calling it Circuit #1 and Circuit #2 implies power that is protected by 15A or 12A or 30A or 50A circuit breakers your RV circuit panels. Whereas L1 & L2 power refers to power from the shore power post that is protected by a 50A or 30A breaker. But we are basically talking about the same thing.

However shore power provides L1 & L2 sources that are NOT in phase. And your generator output L1 & L2 sources that ARE in phase.

So, this is why your Load Center Panel does NOT show you the total amps being used on "shore power." More specifically, out of phase power actually cancels one another out; and if your power center was displaying this current, as picked up by that coil/camp on a single neutral (RETURN) power line, then you might only see 5A when you know (in this example) L1 is really putting out 14A and your L2 is putting out 9A. I.e., 14-9=5

...So that would be confusing since we know know both your ACs are on and pulling 23A. Therefore, the designers just don't display amps except when you are running on single phase power!

WHEN ARE YOU RUNNING SINGLE PHASE POWER?

If you are running your RV on 30A shore power (using the dog bone) you are really bridging L1 to L2 and you are now using singe phase power. Note: It's still 50A out of the shore power, but now your EMS 620 Load shedder is Active and will shed loads to keep you from blowing circuits. And individually your loads are all protected by their respective circuit breakers.

Note: Your Onan 7500 actually can output 66A, but it has a 35A circuit breaker on each Neutral return wire; and these are the circuit breakers located on the generator. (Note they are protecting the neutral wire and not the hot wire.)

So anytime your Load Center detects a single phase power source... then your AMP meter will light up and show you the sum of both L1 & L2, which in this case is 14A +9A = 23A.

ADDING A 15A OR 20A OUTLET TO YOUR ATS

* First, you really should add a circuit breaker to protect this parallel connection (Circuit #3), because this circuit does NOT go thru your main circuit panel. However, you do have a 50A breaker on your shore power post, but your wire will melt if it's not protected by a 15A or 20A circuit breaker. Note: I chose a 15A breaker since I know I was running 14 gauge extension cord. Plus a 14g cord is lighter and easier to store, and I'm only running 8A on it... dedicated to my portable AC inside the RV.

* When you add a parallel C3 outlet, it's also true the amps returned to the power pole DO NOT go thru the coil/clamp in the main circuit panel. So, this explains why the load center cannot detect it. Therefore, you should NOT expect to see amp meter to display the C3 load component. I.e., only C1 and C2 loads will be displayed on single phase power (including generator power), but it's there and you should keep a mental note of this. Further, I'm guessing, your EMS load shedder will not pick up on it, but it's a minor concern since your C3 circuit is on L2, and your EMS only sheds loads on C1 anyway.

* Also, your ONAN 7500 or 8000 generator has 2 separate neutral return wires for C1 & C2. So in theory, your generator rotor and stator will run in a more balanced state when C1 = C2 and this is more important under heavy loads.

* This is also why you need to pay particular attention to the type of ATS you use since almost all of the ATS boxes being sold under the label of providing 50A service... really are not as robust as the old ATS boxes... and they do NOT accommodate 2 separate generator neutral return wires. Of course these new ATS boxes will work, but will likely fail in 1-2 years. So don't buy one of these ATS boxes that use contactors when you really need an old style 8-pin, 50A ATS relay inside.

* So, with this setup I now have 2 options to power my portable AC. A) I can plug in the RV portable AC extension cord to the outlet so it runs on C2 power; or B) I can use an external 50' extension cord so that when I run my portable AC on 20A shore power, which means my portable AC is NOT connect to the RV 50A power center at all. And I like this option.

HOW MANY ACs DO I NEED

* My 2-Ton Coleman Mach Basement AC is rated at 24,000 BTUs and by adding a 8,000 BTU portable AC to the living room area I just increased my cooling by 30%.

* This being the case, I find I often only need to run the potable AC and as the day heat increases I then turn on just he Coleman Basement AC fan to distribute the cold air from the portable AC.

* When the OAT is 85F or more, I will turn on the basement AC and use both compressors, but when it's 85F or less, I sometimes turn off the basement AC #2 compressor by turning "off" the #2 compressor circuit breaker.

* So much of the time I don't even run the basement AC compressors at all. ...Instead I just run the fan in the basement AC to circulate the cold air from the portable AC in the living room. ...And this means my basement AC is being used 30-50% less!

LOAD BALANCING CONCERNS

Turns out, your ATS really can't run more than 24A for extend periods of time.
Therefore, IMO, you should not think of your 50 service as being capable of running 50A on one circuit for very long.

* I tested this out on the beaches of Port Aransas in 93F humid weather. I ran my basement AC on both compressors, and I ran the 8A portable AC on C1 by plugging it into a wall outlet.

...This situation showed 28-29A on my power panel, with my generator running, and I was fine for about 3 hours. But then my amp meter went to 33A and then it climbed rapidly to 39A, which is when shut my ACs off before I fried my ATS relays inside. So running at 28-29A is no-bueno for hours at a time.

==> Also, AC loads are "inductive loads" and not "resistive loads" like your room heater or hair dryer are. And from my research your 50A-ATS is only rated to handle ~63% of your relay rating under resistive loads; I.e., 32A on circuit. However, with inductive loads this number drops to about 26A. And as pointed out, over just a few hours, your wires will heat up and then you have real problems since your EMS load shedder will not shed your ACs.

==> So if you are going to add a portable AC to an already "maxed-out" system, you should, IMO, put this load on C2 that is normally reserved for your washing machine, and other non-essential appliances.

==> And I chose to tap into the ATS, because it was easier to do this than to run a power wire to the main circuit panel under the bed, but you can do this if you want. I tapped into the ATS by adding an outlet there, with a circuit breaker, and as explained above, I also like having the option to power the portable AC direct to the shore power 20A plug.

==> Remember, your microwave and wall outlets are all on C1; and C2 is not that well utilized which is only a concern on generator power.

GENERATOR POWER CONCERNS ARE DIFFERENT THAN SHORE POWER USE

* As explained above, I chose to run my 8A portable AC on L2 so that I have a more balanced generator load when I want to run my basement AC and my portable AC. Why?

Answer: Your generator outputs single phase power. And more importantly, it uses a stator and rotor to pickup L1 & L2. So, under heavy load conditions it's a good idea to make L1=L2 or as "balanced" as you possibly can.

Also, your basement AC compressor #1 is on C1. And your basement AC compressor #2 is on C2. So when I wired my 8A portable AC to C2, I now can also add loads to C1 to power my MicroWave and run my TV and power some loads to the wall outlets. So, putting the portable AC load on C1 is not that desirable; and when running your generator it really would be out of balance if 28A was on C1 and on 9-11A was on C2.

You can do the math, but I estimate under heavy loads, with 32,000 BTUs of AC power running:

C1=11A and C2=9A for a total of 20A, so my amp meter will only show ~20A when I'm running the generator, since the coil/clamp in the main power panel is not picking up the 6-8A I put on C3, but it's there nevertheless.

As for 50A service, I like to think of it as capable of running a maximum of 25A on L1 and 25A on L2. However, running less AMPs is better for your ATS. So your ATS is the weaker link in the system. And don't forget your loads are only protected on the hot wires (C1 & C2) in your power panel. I.e., your neutral wire is not protected... except when you are on generator power. However, by the time these breakers trip, you probably damaged your ATS.

In addition, anytime your power source drops below 115V that appliance will probably draw more amps of current. And while this is a different subject, FYI, running your basement AC on low power is no-bueno also! So you should have a power monitor in your coach and you should monitor it from time to time, because when everyone in your RV park starts to run their AC, you may find your shore power will drop below 110V and below 108V damage to all your AC loads may occur.
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Old 08-17-2021, 08:48 AM   #17
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Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 5
Great write up. I actually have a portable unit sitting in our garage that I had for a church nursery room that saw very little use. Your coach is very similar to mine and would be a great winter project for me. Thanks!
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2006 Itasca Ellipse 40KD CAT 350
Location North Central PA
Retired Army
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