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Old 06-03-2021, 10:19 PM   #1
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Basement air trouble

Hi Newbie here
Searched the ol internet to no avail to find the answer to this problem. Found a lot of useful info on here but nothing that matches my scenario
My air turns on stage 1 starts as it should 30 seconds later stage 2 kicks in , outdoor blower pauses for a second while it starts and both compressors run for exactly 3 minutes and shuts off for 3 minutes and the cycle keeps repeating itself . I get cold air inside when they are running but obviously canít keep up with the heat short cycling
I did find several burnt wires in the control box that I repaired, donít think any were completely burnt into but close . 2 of which go to the outdoor freeze sensor. Also while acs are running green led blinks normal condition code and red led illuminates to show 2nd compressors being called for . When not running I get 3 quick green led light blinks which according to schematic means Indoor or outdoor freeze temp out of range . I left system off overnight in case it was indeed froze up but when I tried it again this morning it was still on the 3 min cycle I donít believe itís possible to freeze up that quickly
Any ideas ? Seems to me a freeze sensor is reporting false info and shutting system down , but I do not know how to troubleshoot that
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Old 06-04-2021, 02:06 AM   #2
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I can comment more later when I have more time.

Do a search for your Coleman and you may find threads like this one that will help you gain some more information to formulate an an action plan.

Did you check your start and run capacitor values to make sure they are in spec?

Then check your blower motor capacitors.

Do you have some HVAC experience already? Sounds like you do...

REFERENCE MATERIALS


https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3897303

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ad-360836.html

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...de-359467.html
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Old 06-04-2021, 11:29 AM   #3
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No HVAC experience . Retired electronics technician
( phone company) mostly low voltage stuff.
Iíll check the caps . Both compressors seem to start fine just shut down after 3 min like clock work. Would bad run caps cause this? Iím leaning towards a bad board, lots of soot on it , definitely got too hot at some point
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Old 06-04-2021, 01:22 PM   #4
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Mkeeton1: You can figure this out and I was in your shoes last year. Meaning, I too come from a low voltage background (semiconductor) and a tech at my camp spot in Rocky Point, MX introduced me to the whole basement AC maintenance thing.

Then I researched it, learned more about it, and found this basement AC is pretty solid unless you plug in to low voltage lines. Then you can melt the WSX5 or WSX7 "motor starter" that sits on top of your start capacitors.

Anyway, when you review all the links I sent you, and then separate the functions, and work backwards, hopefully you will find your problem.

ORDER OF DIAGNOSIS

* Check Capacitors (Start, Run, Blower Motors)

* Replace motor starter WSX5/7 which is just a PTC-R, bi-metal switch, that is NC... and then opens splits seconds after your compressor starts to take the start capacitor OUT of the circuit.

Note: If the motor starter fails then everything gets hot and can melt. That's they the WSX5 or 7 has a patent, which is probably on the ceramic material... to resist heat. Otherwise, you can use a cheap PTCR you can buy for your residential refrigerator on Amazon. (Note: This PTCR is a 20-ohm device you can check with a multimeter.)

* These circuit boards have been known to cause problems. But my guess is that they can be repaired. However, I have never seen any threads on that.

* Those relays maybe a weak spot after 15 years (100,000 miles), but if you compressors are shutting down after a while then that may be the PTCR-Overload Switch on top of your compressor working like it should.

The problem of diagnosing the compressor is that you have to open the lid to the basement AC; and to do that you need to remove the basement AC from the frame rails.

==> Very few people seem to put the basement AC on their list of preventative maintenance but they should. And it's not expensive to give your basement AC a tune-up. My guess is that they don't know what to do.

So keep us all poste on how you fix your basement AC so you can help others know what to do.

PS
The circuit board is not that complicated once you separate your Thermostat wires from your relay wires. There are also LED lights on the CB that sometime tell you what is wrong, but I don't have a good key on that subject.

Hopefully, all you have to do is change your Hard Start Kit (which is what they call your start capacitor and motor starter) & Run capacitors.
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Old 06-05-2021, 08:01 AM   #5
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New development

Moved to a different campground and had some trouble with their 50amp service . Kept making the ATS go into time delay mode, which I guess means it was surging. The owner tells me he has 3 phase service here , using 2 legs for 240v . I know from experience with a clothes dryer that polarity matters for some reason. Sure enough I swapped the black and red legs and no more issues. In the process of troubleshooting I had the thought maybe my ac was causing this . Somewhere in the process I turned breaker off to ac compressor #2 and whalla , # 1 will run with no issues and not cut out. So Iíve narrowed down my issue to comp #2 . Still leaning towards board but as you suggest could be compacitors . Wil check those next.
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Old 06-05-2021, 09:33 AM   #6
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Here's a link from someone with a similar basement AC condition, but they never posted the solution. You might revive it so others who subscribed to this thread will get notified and maybe that will solicit a good answer and fix? TBD.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...em-329162.html

MORE SUGGESTIONS


* Always make sure you have tight connections!!!! My guess is that you are looking for a loose neutral wire lug. I.e., with both compressors running at 24A -28A a loose neutral return wire may cause the compressor to overheat and shut down, but not trip a circuit breaker.

* Always make sure your capacitors are in spec.

Note: If you your multi-meter does not read capacitance you can google search how to measure capacitance using a formula.

Note: Some people say they were able to revive their weak compressor by installing a Supco SPP6 or SPP4E Hard Start Kit in place of the OEM Hard Start Kit. See my other thread on this subject.

Since you have 50A service, where did you switch L1 & L2? Was it going into the ATS?

What type of ATS do you have?

What year and model RV do you have?

Do you know the model of your Coleman Mach?

Does your AC work properly on generator power?

What type of generator do you have?

Do you have a 30A "Dog Bone Connector" to convert your 50A (L1 + L2) into a dual 30A service?


From the factory that would but L1 (red wire typically) on both legs. However if you switched legs then you would get the shore power L2-black-wire on both legs to the RV.

Using the Dog Bone may have a positive affect on the ATS relays. (Maybe, I'm not sure. But it is worth trying since it is so easy to test.) And both compressors should work on 30A service.

===

I'm going to guess you have a Parallax ATS-5070 (like me). So look closely at the wire diagram below and you will see there is only 1 "Neutral Relay" and 1 "Hot Relay" in your ATS.

However, these are 8-pin relays and my guess is that you have a burnt point problem... or the generator Neutral wires feeding the ATS are a problem.

* You might first try banging on the relay box with a hammer.

* You if your AC does not run right on generator power, then you might try disconnecting the ATS-generator wires and see what happens.

BASEMENT AC #2 RELAY WORK AROUND

If your #1 compressor circuit is working, but your #2 compressor circuit is suspect, then you might try this:

* Swap the basement AC #2 relay pins 6 & 8 and put these wires on 2 & 4. These pins are are normally not used, but will function just like 6 & 8... so you will be using effectively "new" points on pins 2 & 4.

It's a long shot, but when you don't have new parts in the field it may be your last hope to get both compressors running at the same time.

Note: I don't know if you can start compressor #2 without having first started compressor #1. This might have something to do with a reversing valve in the system. However, I have never tested this. Maybe someone else can tell you if you can start compressor #2 first?
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Old 06-05-2021, 11:15 AM   #7
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Here's a link to a downloadable service manual that has a good troubleshooting section. In using it, follow it step-by-step. Don't be tempted to jump to a conclusion prematurely or take the "shotgun approach". Even if this isn't your exact model, they're all pretty much the same except for duct location:

http://www.rvcomfort.com/pdf_documen...6323_copy8.pdf

Good luck.
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Old 07-28-2021, 11:21 AM   #8
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Fixed

Ok so finally had time and space to take on this issue . Thanks to all for advice and info. Ordered new jars start kit and control board before I started just in case but after doing some testing with a multi meter , everything seemed to be working as it should , still no force from air vents.
Pulled the unit , low and behold the inside coils were completed clogged with some tar like substance . Cleaned them and the difference is other worldly. Actually itís created another expensive problem . There is so much air movement and temp difference within days of fixing it my headliner has started falling!!! Starts by the vents as a bubble then just runs away. Different problem for a different et day. To all those who believe you shouldnít be able to tell difference between hi and Lo fan speed and that this unit canít keep up over 80ish degrees outside , you have some sort of problem. I have a full paint Suncrusier 38K sitting in full sun 97 degree FL heat 80% humidity and it 65-67 inside and the air from vents are blowing with the force of a hairdryer only cold as ice !!! Onto the headliner !!!
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Old 07-28-2021, 09:45 PM   #9
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Thanks for the results, so many poster never report back as to the fix.
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Old 07-29-2021, 10:10 AM   #10
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What's a Jars start kit?
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Old 07-29-2021, 11:48 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
What's a Jars start kit?
Or did you mean "Hard" start kit?
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