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Old 02-05-2021, 03:40 PM   #41
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Did your copy of Duner's writeup include this diesel pusher addendum (included in my copy revised 8/24/2013)? These talk about lowering the whole unit as much as 3". I strongly suspect that's what needs to happen with your unit.
PROCEDURE FOR DIESEL PUSHER CHASSIS
31. I got this info from an owner of a 2002 Ultimate Advantage diesel pusher chassis:
I pulled the basement A/C unit out twice. On our coach the body compartment door hinges upward and the A/C unit slides out the side of the coach. Two things are needed to be done to remove the unit:
1. disconnect the supply duct from the rear of the A/C
2. lower (about 1/2") the frame the A/C rests on. Do this by unscrewing two large bolts on the outer side of the A/C frame.
Duner's write up describes the insides very well. RVP has a newer outdoor blower "wheel" that is plastic vs. the original metal one. The plastic one is much quieter outside the coach.
Replacing the bearings with "lifetime" lubed ones is also very easy.
************************************************** *********************
This info from the owner of a 2002 Journey owner:
The unit must be lowered about 3" to clear the angle iron on top and then at that point it can be pulled out in the same manner as described earlier in this procedure.
To lower the unit, loosen the nuts on the 5/8 bolts in the underside and back off the nut about 3 inches. Then there should be enough room to slide the unit out the side.
************************************************** ********************
And this is from a 2004 Vectra 40KD owner:
First thing was to open the door by removing two screws at the front and two at the rear that hold it shut. The front could be removed by opening the compartment directly in front of it.
In our case it was the water heater and battery compartment. The rear required crawling under. We also used a bungee cord to hold it up.
Next removing all of the screws on the metal piece on top. It will not come out until the unit is lowered a little.
The duct should be unscrewed from the rear before lowering it so out came all of the screws on it. Ours had a couple of metal strips between the screws and the duct. I'm not sure if they were original or added after. The top screws are difficult to get out. A small palm type ratchet with a Phillips end made that easier. We bungeed the duct back a little to keep it out of the way.
After the duct was off we cranked the unit down some using the nuts holding the bar under the front at the right and left. Some WD40 in advance helped with that. There are a couple of angle iron pieces that keep the unit from sliding forward. They were held with star bit screws
if I remember correctly and they were corroded so badly I used my pneumatic cut off tool on a couple and vice grips to screw them all the way through.
With it lowered a little the top metal piece could be popped out. Ours had rubber pads on the bottom. More WD40 and a large screw driver made it go easily.
Then we could slide it out. Tie wraps needed to be cut to get enough slack on the electric and control wires. The first time we used a large plastic container and lumber much like you did with the buckets. The second (and third) the seat from a CG picnic table and some Lynx
levelers.
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Old 02-05-2021, 03:43 PM   #42
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Hi Richard.... well... I actually tried to load a "video" of the sound it makes but the forum won't allow it. It's only 19 seconds long so if anybody can figure out how I can post it so you can hear it yourself, I'll give it a shot.

In the meantime.....

Do you know what a tuning fork sounds like when you give it a whack? Well.... this has a tuning fork kind of vibration sound, deep, not high pitched or like metal or anything... think of a lions purr compared to the screech a monkey makes. We're talking about the lion's purr here: not a roar... it's like the deep throated purr a cat (in this case a full grown male lion) makes on an epic scale. The thing is, it gets loud, then quiet, then loud, then quiet, then loud then quiet again. It's a cycle.

Funny thing is, the HVAC tech couldn't hear it outside while is was deafening inside the bedroom. Go figure.....

I did not think to look for a label while I was out there because I was in between downpours and just thought to get the pictures and be done with it. I'll give you the schematics if it helps. If it's not listed on there then I'll have to go out again tomorrow (it's too dark and wet out there right now) and see if I can find it.
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Old 02-05-2021, 03:45 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooperhawk View Post
OK, this may apply or not. On our unit that metal beam wasn't square tubing like yours, it was sheet metal and it rusted out, so I had it replaced. The difference is I had mine bolted in and yours looks welded.
Is it possible that someone welded that beam in? If so you may need to cut it out and then replace it when done.
This actually sounds much more likely than somebody adding an oversized unit as there are not too many choices for replacing a furnace with so many features specific to that space.

What is the deal on Coleman Mach and Suburban? Did one buy the other out, etc.?

EDIT:
I don't see the model number there but I might expect it to be more of a metal tag somewhere but I also can't read the fine print at the bottom and it could be there. Just thinking that would ease your mind on whether it was changed or not.
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Old 02-05-2021, 03:53 PM   #44
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Cooperhawk.... hmm.... are you talking about the beam that the compartment door is attached to at the top of the opening? I didn't look for weld joints or bolts or anything.... darn it.... I'll have to go out there and open it up and look at it again. Hahaha... my HVAC tech suggested removing it and rewelding it in place. He can weld, too.

I will take this into consideration. What a lousy build on these things... they should put them on sliding trays like the batteries.
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Old 02-05-2021, 03:59 PM   #45
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Given the situation I would send Winnebago an e-mail...they have an e-mail address to answer owners questions. I had a problem locating the specific location for a plumbing check valve. About two days later i received a e-mail response with a pdf with the part circled.
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:03 PM   #46
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Morich: The OP said she has a 6535-671 type Coleman-Mach, but the pictures she posted suggest it's a 6537-671. ...The placement of the blower is the difference more so than the components used inside.

I have a 6535-671 and my inside blower motor does not look like Amimal's.

No matter. These things may look different, but they all run the same. One blower fan is for the evaporator and the other is for the condenser. They call them the inner and outer respectively.

One has a a long shaft and a poorly designed oil-soaked bushing (that can be replaced with a sealed bearing) and the other blower has a short shaft that usually does not cause trouble.

The outside blower cannot be fixed without pulling the box out of the frame. I don't know if the inside blower can be replaced without pulling the top lid off, and to do that you need to remove the box from the frame rails.

There's nothing "oversized" about the box. And shifting to blame to the former owner is not relevant. ...But staring at the problem is very frustrating indeed. Maybe it's time to hire an RV-HVAC person who knows what they are doing? ...That's another challenge. The smart ones know not to get involved from the get-go. So you have to take your RV to someone who has done this before... never mind someone who has R22 on hand if you need to recharge it. And since they do not make these compressors anymore there is that to consider as well.

But if the OP knows how to test her Compressor C, R, and S windings from the circuit panel, then that test may help determine if your compressor is bad or not?

...Did the HVAC tech try swapping circuits to rule out electrical component failure and to pin point a bad device? IDK. None of this is discussed, but for some reason the OP just wants to pull the box off the frame rails to look inside.

That noise must me awfully loud! ...But loud or not, does the heater work? ...Does the AC work on one or both compressors? ...HOW MANY AMPS is the power panel showing when on generator power?

* WHAT IS THE SHORE VOLTAGE? ...Does your AC start and sound different when you are on generator power?

Most of these basement ACs do NOT come with service ports. That's another subject for another day. Let's see if she can first get the AC "off the rails!"

* You know a lot of times, the problem is in the Thermostat.

We still don't know under what conditions the OP hears the noise? Since it's cold across the country I'm guessing she is trying to run the heat pump. IDK. Will she tell us or won't she?

Plus there are 2 compressors. So does Circuit #1 work, but not Circuit #2, or is it the other way around? Do both compressors not work?

This Coleman it pretty hearty. And over the years all the bad mouthing from owners about these units comes from people who don't understand them. Maybe if these people "re-imagined" how an HVAC system works they will figure it out. To help in those regards you might find the diagram below interesting.

...Or maybe it is 38F or below outside where the OP lives and she thinks she can use the heat pump in sub-38F weather, cuz she does not know the heat pump in these things will not work below 40F often. (This is common with a lot of people and is not gender specific.) So who knows if there is a problem here or not? The noise is certainly real, but a Coleman-Mach will make a lot of noise if you are trying to start a compressor that is not designed to run under these conditions.
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:03 PM   #47
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Chris... no, I did not see that addendum to Duners instructions.

On the first example there, even without the steel beam across the top I don't think the unit would still slide out because the body of the coach would then be in the way.

In example 2, the only way to lower the unit would be to cut the steel that it sits on. Then it would have to land on some sort or wheel cart to pull it out to service and then how to you hold it back up there when rewelding it back together? What a horrible design!

Ya... I can't even see a way to drop that unit half a millimeter without cutting out the metal it's sitting on.... it's flush where it sits now.

I'll copy the addendum and let my HVAC tech take a look at it. He suggested cutting it out, servicing it and then welding it back in for me (he's a welder too). I don't know.... seems like a lot of extra work. Wonder who the genius was that came up with this build and thought it was good idea. I think it would be easier to get into Fort Knox. Boy.....
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:05 PM   #48
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neub... I was thinking about doing that just this morning.... I think I'll give it a shot. I've been talking to the service manager at the factory quite a bit about my wall issue so we're already familiar. Thanks for reminding me.
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:06 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animalangel View Post
Chris... no, I did not see that addendum to Duners instructions.
...
In example 2, the only way to lower the unit would be to cut the steel that it sits on. Then it would have to land on some sort or wheel cart to pull it out to service and then how to you hold it back up there when rewelding it back together? What a horrible design!

Ya... I can't even see a way to drop that unit half a millimeter without cutting out the metal it's sitting on.... it's flush where it sits now.

I'll copy the addendum and let my HVAC tech take a look at it. He suggested cutting it out, servicing it and then welding it back in for me (he's a welder too). I don't know.... seems like a lot of extra work. Wonder who the genius was that came up with this build and thought it was good idea. I think it would be easier to get into Fort Knox. Boy.....

My understanding is that the whole steel frame it's sitting on should lower down.
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:12 PM   #50
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Chris... can you give me the link to that addendum? I can't find it and I want to let my HVAC tech check it out.
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:17 PM   #51
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Chris... oh wow... if that whole steel frame can be lowered.... wait... you'd have to remove the exhaust and muffler to do that...... hmm..... Guess I'll have to look at it again.
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:20 PM   #52
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Just messaged my HVAC guy and he said the tag with all the information on it is on the side of the unit and you can see it but you can't get to it or read it. I'll go out there tomorrow (if it's not raining... its supposed to) and see if I can get a mirror back there to write down the info or if it's close enough see if I can get a picture with my phone. I'll get back to ya'll on that.
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:22 PM   #53
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On your photo of the frame the ac sits on i cant see the very rear part of the frame. So you are not seeing a bolt like in my photo i the very rear of the ac frame underneath
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:24 PM   #54
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I'll go out there again tomorrow (pending the rain situation) and see if I can get a picture of the back of that frame. Looks like I've got to check for a few more things I wasn't aware to look for today. Thanks for the picture because now I know what to look for.
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Old 02-05-2021, 04:45 PM   #55
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Are you kidding me! 54 posts and this 5/8" bolt and HUGE support, shown clear as day, is what is keeping you from dropping your AC!

Don't forget to unplug from shore power. I wouldn't trust just flipping off a circuit breaker. ...And your 12V system is powering your thermostat, so you better kill your BDS too before you remove those wires... or you maybe buying a new thermostat.

Good luck!
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Old 02-05-2021, 07:14 PM   #56
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Chris... can you give me the link to that addendum? I can't find it and I want to let my HVAC tech check it out.
The link to Duner's writeup in post #6 (BobC) of this thread includes that addendum as item 31.
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Old 02-05-2021, 08:16 PM   #57
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Also, according to page 212 of the Parts Catalog for the OP's coach the AC unit is:
1* 105620-16-000 EA A/C - CENTRAL - RIGHT HAND/HEAT PUMP - TOP RETURN
which is the same unit I have in my 2005 Vectra 36RD. It is a Coleman-Mach 6537-671 (top return).
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Old 02-05-2021, 08:51 PM   #58
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Yep: As I thought, it's a 6537. That very exposed blower up front is the give-away!

I forgot to mention: If you measure ~5.05 Ohms on your compressor R-to-S circuit, then nothing is wrong with your compressor. ...Of course you could have a bad overload device?

So far, it's pretty obvious your HVAC tech is not familiar with a 2-compressor basement AC, or else he would have been able to pull this AC in 1 hour.

...Further, you said you think your R22 is low, which is premature at best, since it's impossible for your tech to connect a pressure gauge to your system until after he pulls the AC off the rails... 2-3 days after starting this project.

...My guess is that your HVAC guy walked off the job and now you are attempting this repair on your own, driven by god knows what, which would be a mistake.

IMHO, you are on a mission to nowhere! So I highly recommend you STOP NOW before you break something in the process; or waste more time blaming other people.

Specifically, if you do not know what to do after you pull the AC... then how do you expect to drive your RV to a repair shop?

Someone is giving you wrong and misleading information. I'm not referring to all of us on his forum, cuz everyone is just trying to help figure out what you don't know.

Maybe we can get back on track if you start over and explain to all of us what is wrong with your basement AC other than some noise... that is not loud enough to hear from outside the coach?

Let me ask you again: hat are you going to do when you finally figure out how to pull this AC off the frame rails? Do you know? ...Cus if you don't, stop now!

Alternatively, you need to rule out all the electrical issues you can check with the AC on the frame rails. ...What do the status lights on your control board tell you? ...Did you know you have status lights you can use to diagnose a bad control board? ...And these things fail often! ...So you need to check this before you disconnect power! ...And you don't need to remove the AC from the frame rails to address a bad circuit board.

* And if you are doing this repair in sub-40F weather, that's a big mistake.

Once you know your compressor is fine, and your external components are fine (like capacitors, relays, and circuit board)... cuz you can bypass these and verify your basement AC functions properly as a heat pump and as an AC chiller... then you can tear into the box and look for cracked blower cages and whatnot.

Otherwise, you (or your HVAC guy, if he is still working for you???) are going a witch hunt... and when you put it all back together, you may still have that noise you are trying to fix. It's part of the risk we all take when on a DIY project when you don't know what you are doing!

...And I sure hope you have a stable platform to put that AC on, because your AC weighs 200 lbs which can hurt a lot if it drops on you. A good number of owners opt to buy a transmission jack or motorcycle jack at Harbor Freight before they pull their AC. So be careful you don't hurt yourself! This repair is not for beginners or backyard mechanics without much experience.

When it comes to reading a schematic and using a voltmeter to check circuits, almost any knucklehead can do that safely, but it still takes some experience to make sense of what you probe. So if you don't understand V=IR you should STOP and hire a professional... and by professional I mean someone who has worked on a Basement AC and feels comfortable diagnosing it, which will save you money and time and heartache.
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Old 02-06-2021, 12:34 PM   #59
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Ok... I'm back with what I found on and under the unit.

I could not find any metal tag with the make and model of my heating/ac unit on it but I found a paper label. Absolutely cannot see anything on the label without removing the unit but I did try to take pictures of it in it's very confined space utilizing different angles with my cell phone and one hand. Those pictures are attached but I don't know if they give any clues.

As for the unit itself, it turns out that the front steel piece it's sitting on IS actually bolted in. So... that front bottom steel piece can be removed after all. Turns out that piece of steel is bolted to the vertical steel frame at the far rear of the RV.

I didn't see anything at the bottom rear of the unit, however, that would allow it to drop for removal. I am attaching the pictures of the underside of that framework for you to see if you can tell. I was laying in wet mud and the blower was blowing very cold air on me (it's cold outside) and I didn't want to stay under there and risk getting sick.

That said, I want to thank all who contributed to helping me know what to look for and where to look for it so that my HVAC tech can remove the unit and service it. I think the only thing left now is how to drop it once that front steel beam is removed.

Thanks again, Chris for your research. I just looked back at Duner's PDF that I have saved on my computer and it does, in fact, contain the addendum you brought to my attention on page 31 as you said. Also, thanks for tracking down my actual unit!
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Old 02-06-2021, 01:48 PM   #60
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I just went out and lay under my coach to confirm how the AC is mounted. Those two oval holes in the exhaust shield (shown in your pics above) should give you access to the two bolts on the muffler side of the AC support frame. There should be two more bolts at either end of the support frame on the other side as well. These are the four bolts that need to be backed off to lower the unit for removal.
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