Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-07-2021, 10:28 AM   #1
Winnebago Camper
 
Stella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Westwood, NJ
Posts: 14
Only 90 seconds of hot water in my atwood

Hi friends. I have a 2002 Minnie Winnie 30V. My water heater comes on and turns off after awhile and I only get 90 seconds of hot water. I went to the pressure relief valve and held a bucket to catch the water and I got lots of hot water out of it. How come the water in the heater is hot but doesn’t make it to the sink. Thanks for your help. JC
Stella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-07-2021, 10:54 AM   #2
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 7,373
I would first want to verify some things about what is happening. Is the water at other faucets normal but only short term hot water at the kitchen?

If this is true, I would then move to it being a faucet/mixing problem rather than anything difficult with the heater and plumbing.

Assuming it is only the one faucet, I would move to looking at that faucet for something possibly blocking the flow or an internal part failure.

Do you know if this faucet is the older type using a faucet washer of some shape to close off flow, or is it newer using a cartridge? With the idea that things do get changes over the years, does this appear to be the original single handle as this snip shows, or has it been changed out?

If it is a single handle, it will be a cartridge type and that leaves open the question of the lever possibly not turning the cartridge correctly to open the hot but I would doubt that idea.
If it is of the older where screws from the washer can get loose and fall into the line, they can roll back away and let water flow but then the flow moves the screw into a place where flow may be blocked!

So a few ideas to think over/ check on and see if you can spot something? It might be as simple as tighten the handle or it might need to have the hot line taken off the faucet to see if flushing it out would help.

Early thoughts but more info/ testing needed!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	faucet.jpg
Views:	59
Size:	98.7 KB
ID:	180474  
__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
Morich is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2021, 05:47 AM   #3
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Posts: 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella View Post
Hi friends. I have a 2002 Minnie Winnie 30V. My water heater comes on and turns off after awhile and I only get 90 seconds of hot water. I went to the pressure relief valve and held a bucket to catch the water and I got lots of hot water out of it. How come the water in the heater is hot but doesn’t make it to the sink. Thanks for your help. JC
Do you have an outside shower or rinse station in the wet bay? Confirm that is turned off at the fixture knobs and not just the spray head.
2Newsomes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2021, 07:45 AM   #4
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 119
I agree with Monica. Check other fixtures and see if any change. Remember they are made in China. Also check your bypass valve for water heater when you winterize. Some Atwood’s have these..
More likely the fixture. Travato john
TravatoJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2021, 04:48 PM   #5
Winnebago Camper
 
Stella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Westwood, NJ
Posts: 14
Thanks for the insight. Yes my outside shower knobs are turned off. My bypass valves are set right. And the 90 second hot water happens in the shower and in the bathroom sink and in the kitchen sink. My real befuddlement comes from the fact that when I open the pressure relief valve plenty of hot water comes out. Also after the sink water goes cold the heater doesn’t relight itself. I believe this is because it senses that there is hot water still in the heater? Are there any secret hidden bypass valves other than the obvious one right behind the moveable cabinet backing in the under sink area. I don’t think it’s a faucet problem and BTW my gawkers are 2 knob faucets in all areas. My logic is that if I open the hot water fawcet and it has good flow and after it starts to run cold it still puts out the same volume so the fawcet is fine. It isn’t the fixture.
Stella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2021, 04:49 PM   #6
Winnebago Camper
 
Stella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Westwood, NJ
Posts: 14
Fawcets not gawkers
Stella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-08-2021, 06:30 PM   #7
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 7,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella View Post
Fawcets not gawkers
But wouldn't it be lots more fun to unscrew the head on a GAWKER!!!

Okay with the new info that it happens at several faucets, I would say you are right on it not being there.
Yes, agree that the thermostat on the heater should not make the fire relight until the hot water in the tank is nearing gone or at least a bunch used.

Thinking further, the hot water you do get is coming out of the tank but then stops for some reason! So it sounds like something at or near the heater is shifting/moving to cut off the hot flow but let cold keep moving.

So if you only have the hot side of a two handle faucet open, there is no way for the hot stopping will let cold through at the faucet. If it were a single handle faucet, I might see some way but not with two handles.

Something weird that is not clear to me right now but some thoughts might be the bypass valve internals moving to bypass the heater???? Kind of hard to imagine it moving and then moving back to correct for the next time you open the faucet!!

My last idea might be that there is something going on with the check valve on the water heater??

Does this bypass look right for what you have? Maybe worth a check or the check valve sho0uld let water go only one way, so that cold water doesn't back up into the heater to make it cool too fast. Hard to imagine it being open to let you get some hot water and then going closed while water is flowing!!!!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	bypass.jpg
Views:	42
Size:	30.5 KB
ID:	180503   Click image for larger version

Name:	bypass1.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	122.9 KB
ID:	180504  

__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
Morich is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2021, 11:50 AM   #8
Winnebago Camper
 
Stella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Westwood, NJ
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morich View Post
But wouldn't it be lots more fun to unscrew the head on a GAWKER!!!

Okay with the new info that it happens at several faucets, I would say you are right on it not being there.
Yes, agree that the thermostat on the heater should not make the fire relight until the hot water in the tank is nearing gone or at least a bunch used.

Thinking further, the hot water you do get is coming out of the tank but then stops for some reason! So it sounds like something at or near the heater is shifting/moving to cut off the hot flow but let cold keep moving.

So if you only have the hot side of a two handle faucet open, there is no way for the hot stopping will let cold through at the faucet. If it were a single handle faucet, I might see some way but not with two handles.

Something weird that is not clear to me right now but some thoughts might be the bypass valve internals moving to bypass the heater???? Kind of hard to imagine it moving and then moving back to correct for the next time you open the faucet!!

My last idea might be that there is something going on with the check valve on the water heater??

Does this bypass look right for what you have? Maybe worth a check or the check valve sho0uld let water go only one way, so that cold water doesn't back up into the heater to make it cool too fast. Hard to imagine it being open to let you get some hot water and then going closed while water is flowing!!!!
Thanks Richard. Yes that is my bypass valve. Is it true that if that valve is in the bypass position water doesn’t flow through the heater? That’s my understanding. The other wierd thing is that there is plenty of hot water at the pressure relief valve when I flip the relief lever. I mean I got a gallon of really hot water then I stopped collecting it
Stella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2021, 12:55 PM   #9
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 7,373
Yes, the drawings are not clear enough on your specific model to trace exactly where the lines run but the idea is that the incoming water flows into the tank or just bypasses it if the valve is et the other way. Often we can tell which way the water should flow just by looking at the handle and spotting which pipe the handle aligns with?

So that idea "might" fit but doesn't seem right as the valve "might" move when the water started flowing??????? Not feeling really that could happen but weird things do happen. Hard to imagine it being right when you first open the faucet and get hot water flowing and then suddenly the bypass valve moves to bypass. Even my cynical mind has a hard time with that idea!

But if you can look at the bypass handle and see it is right, turn on the hot water and it fails and then look at the knob position, that might be a pretty easy thing---if you can see the knob easy enough?

But the other idea I think of is the check valve and that doesn't really feel right either. The check valve is usually just a simple spring gizmo which pushes a ball, etc inside the valve to close off flow coming back in the wrong direction but the pressure from the right direction will push that spring and let the line open to let hot water OUT of the tank. The main idea is it is a one way path.

But where that idea gets messy is that check valves usually fail open or get stuck shut due to the spring getting weak, corroded, or hard water deposits stick the movement.
So the idea of one opening to let you get hot water, then sticking shut while the water is flowing? Well, that is also really hard to believe.

But there are not many things between the water heater and the kitchen sink faucet, leaving something rolling around in the lines? But it is where it does it on ALL the faucets ? That seems really reaching too far, too.

So a couple more questions? Do you find this does it on city water and then have you found it doing it on just using the pump? Not sure that tells us much but more info????

Also do you have the extra faucet and filter of filtered water?

The drawings I'm looking at are here and may be more plain:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...430v_plumb.pdf

Down on pages 5-6 are where I snipped this of the water heater. Not the plainest thing but best we have. I have looked at the flow from the tank and marked it as a blue line from the left (tank area) to the water heater area at the bypass valve where it goes straight up and to the kitchen sink if bypassing or it goes to the right and into the heater if not bypassing. The water goes into the heater, gets hot and comes out through the one way check valve and then to all the faucets. This is not clear to see but when we have a "T- number" it is a tee fitting or "E-number" is an elbow, so we can guess at what the drawing shows.

The problem seems to be that there is not much between where the water comes out of the heater and the first sink faucet, so I come back to wondering about the check valve or bypass valve>>>>>

Searching hard for answers and getting close to none that work, so can I accuse you of being confused? Sorry not meaning that in a bad way!

Any chance of confusion by the first water you get is water from the hose, heated by the sun and you are not really getting ANY water to the sink from the heater, but just a burst which soon turns cold as more water runs through the hose and to the sink without laying in the sun to heat?? Bypass not really set right?

Sorry___
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	filter.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	86.4 KB
ID:	180522   Click image for larger version

Name:	bypassing.jpg
Views:	37
Size:	112.9 KB
ID:	180523  

__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
Morich is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2021, 04:43 PM   #10
Winnebago Camper
 
Stella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: Westwood, NJ
Posts: 14
I must say you are really putting in some time on this and I thank you very much. Is there an anode or some other part in the heater that needs to be cleaned or replaced? I also heard about the space in the heater that needs to be available since water when heated expands and it could produce a pressure dam that keeps the water from getting hot. I could also just replace the thermostat and the circuit board but that’s like throwing darts at a board.
Stella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2021, 08:07 PM   #11
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 7,373
I've lost track of which brand has anodes. Anodes are designed to wear down instead of the tank and it depends if the tank is steel or aluminum but the way to tell if you have one is by brand or by looking at the drain. If the drain is just a simple plug down near the bottom of the tank on the outside, there is no anode but if you find the drain "plug" is actually a long 6-10 inch long rod instead of a plug, that is the anode and you need to look it over a bit.
Other folks here will likely know off the top which brand needs one?

But assuming you might have one, the look is simple as it just looks like the thing is rotting away! When it gets down to looking like it might break in two, replace it.
Here is an ad from Wal-mart which has about all you really need to know but check before assuming it is correct as I have not had the type and needed to replace one.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Suburban-...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

I am not a believer in the pressure dam idea as it would have to be the tank filled with air, so the water could not get in and that is hard to figure if the outlet is on top of the heater as the air will also be on the top and when you open a faucet the air come out of the tank to the faucet and out!
Notice how high on the heater the relief valve sets? If your heater was full of air it stays at the top above the water and when you open the valve a bunch of air comes out but since you got hot water out, we know it's not full of air and we also know water is going in at the bottom to make it comes out the top.
I have to lay the pressure dam thing to folks not thinking about how air always stays on top of water???
If we had an empty tank, turned the water on and did not open a faucet, then the tank might stay full of air but as soon as we open a faucet that air goes out the lines and out the faucet. Hard to make air stay underwater!
Heating the water does make a bit more pressure but that pressure is relieved right away when we open any faucet, etc. If the heater fails in some way so that the fire stays on , even after it reaches the right hot temp, the temperature and pressure relief valve is spring loaded and lets the pressure blow out there long before the tank gets enough pressure to blow up. If we think about it, there are lots of plastic fitting and lines that will break a long time before the metal tank gets anywhere close to enough pressure to split!
Kind of like leaving pan on the stove with no water, the thing we need to watch is that we don't want to run the water heater while it is dry!
__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
Morich is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2021, 07:34 AM   #12
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 3,574
I found several online references that characterize Atwood water heaters not needing anodes due to their having aluminum tanks, while Suburban water heaters do need them:

https://www.everything-about-rving.c...anode-rod.html
__________________
Bob C
2002 Itasca Suncruiser 35U
Workhorse Chassis
BobC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2021, 09:48 AM   #13
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 7,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobC View Post
I found several online references that characterize Atwood water heaters not needing anodes due to their having aluminum tanks, while Suburban water heaters do need them:

https://www.everything-about-rving.c...anode-rod.html
This sounds like good and accurate info but I tend to never remember it!
The anode would be a long term maintenance thing to be aware of, of course but not what I would think of as a cause for getting some hot water but then it quitting.

I have to say I'm running out of ideas for thigs that would let the water go into the tank for heating, then let it flow out for a bit and suddenly stop, while still getting cold water!

Anybody with thoughts or ideas, certainly feel welcome to jump in with suggestions on what or how to test, as I am really getting short on ideas.

Almost like the bypass is right to let water in but then cuts to make flow bypass when it is used? I might imagine how it could do it once time but then resetting to the same a second time is way hard for me to picture!

Something rolling around in the lines like a faucet washer screw can restrict flow a bit but I've never had it totally kill the hot water and then release again!

At this point, I would have to possibly start testing over again, try it at all the faucets and under city water and pump water pressure and if nothing shows up, I might have to open the line at the hot water heater and test hot water flow coming directly out of it and move along the line to see where things stop working????? It is such a short direct route from heater to sink, that it is hard to think of what might do this.

One thing that bothers me is that the OP reports the sink has a two handle faucet, while the drawings show a single handle. That makes me think there has been a faucet change and that opens up the idea of something dropped into the line there.

But that idea is blown up if all the other faucets do the same!
__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
Morich is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2021, 10:22 AM   #14
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Elk Grove, CA
Posts: 3,574
I haven't assimilated all of the comments but I assume the water should flow freely through the hot water heater whether or not it was heating.

If my assumption is correct, have you tried testing all this with cold water? If the flows are steady with cold water coming in and out of the water heater, then you'd establish that the problem is heat related. I'm not sure where this leads, but it's additional information.

If it is, indeed heat related, does it act the same on LPG as it does on 120V AC? Again, not definitive but additional information.
__________________
Bob C
2002 Itasca Suncruiser 35U
Workhorse Chassis
BobC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2021, 04:49 PM   #15
Bob Tour 2008
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 5
My 2008 tour had a similar problem. The check valve coming out of the top of the hot water heater was faulty. Check and see if you actually had water coming out of the hot water valve after the 90 seconds.
I’m not sure if your coach has the same set up.
bob1947 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2021, 05:20 PM   #16
Winnebago Owner
 
mikf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 241
After your water starts running cold leave it running and go outside and see if you still have hot water at the relief valve. That should tell you whether it is plumbing or heating trouble.
__________________
Mike S.E. Ohio 2002 Adventure 35u flat tow a 2016 Equinox. Also a 2018 Pleasureway XLMB
mikf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2021, 05:27 PM   #17
Winnebago Owner
 
NormD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Beaverton, Oregon
Posts: 56
2Newsomes (post #3) brought up a good point, but you appear to have confirmed that all shower valves are OFF. The thought is that if the shower valves were ON and the shower head was OFF there could be a flow of cold water into the hot water pipe. This would give you the few seconds of hot water you observe at the desired faucet until the hot water in the pipe runs out. The water flow would remain normal. For this to happen there would have to be a major blockage of hot water between the tank and the shower valves, the shower valves be the first hot water outlet in the system, valves both open and the shower head OFF. Too many IFs to be likely, but maybe this will trigger other people's thoughts.

It appears that your heater is doing what it should – producing lots of hot water an turning off when the tank is hot.
__________________
2001 Winnebago Brave SE 26P
Workhorse, P32, 7.4L
2000 chassis, SuperSteer springs
NormD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2021, 06:57 PM   #18
Winnebago Master
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Pflugerville/Austin, Tx
Posts: 7,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormD View Post
2Newsomes (post #3) brought up a good point, but you appear to have confirmed that all shower valves are OFF. The thought is that if the shower valves were ON and the shower head was OFF there could be a flow of cold water into the hot water pipe. This would give you the few seconds of hot water you observe at the desired faucet until the hot water in the pipe runs out. The water flow would remain normal. For this to happen there would have to be a major blockage of hot water between the tank and the shower valves, the shower valves be the first hot water outlet in the system, valves both open and the shower head OFF. Too many IFs to be likely, but maybe this will trigger other people's thoughts.

It appears that your heater is doing what it should – producing lots of hot water an turning off when the tank is hot.
This sounded good when I first read it but then on looking, the water comes out of the check valve at the top of the heater and to a set of tees which wander off in different directions, so that the kitchen sink seems to be the first or closer one to the tank while other faucets seem to be out on different "legs" or branches of the line.

The idea of opening a line near the check valve to run water and see if it stays a good flow is really tempting but that also gets into really tricky to run a lot of water and let it come out inside the RV!!
Maybe a BIG bucket or stick the end of the line in another hose to run it out the door or to the shower drain?

I hate the idea but at this point, changing the check valve may be one of the guesses that is easier than some of the other tests?

NOTE:
I'm going remote early in the morning and will be out of touch for a few weeks, so will have to drop out of this hunt!
__________________
Richard
Why no RV year, make and floorplan on MY signature as we suggest for others?
I currently DO NOT have one!
Morich is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
atwood, water


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2004 Vectra 40KD Air leak about 30-40 seconds After Engine Shutdown. BobbyD75 Running Gear, Axles, Brakes, Wheels and Tires 5 12-09-2021 04:57 AM
Hot water only when using pump Beeman744 Plumbing | Systems and Fixtures 6 05-06-2020 02:58 AM
Atwood Hot Water Heater Ignitor knugent Plumbing | Systems and Fixtures 6 06-06-2017 08:05 PM
Atwood hot water heater low pressure kscouple52 Plumbing | Systems and Fixtures 12 01-13-2009 02:46 AM
Atwood hot water heater Plumbing | Systems and Fixtures 20 12-31-1969 07:00 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Winnebago Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.