Hard material from black tank

[jerichorick]

I'm hoping we have a Winnebago plumbing expert on board here. Twice in a few months I have found some hard brown material in my macerator pump. It looks a bit like sandstone. Does anyone have a clue as to what this could be? I just can't think of anything in the tanks that would be hard like this. I don't think the tanks have a lining.
Thanks for giving this a noodle try.

Rick

[Morich]

Dried YUCK!

I have found stuff like that in places where yuck drains and most of the water goes out and if the drain sets for some period (think vacant house) the yuck gets really hard and like baked clay! Maybe has a higher amount of sand from going to the beach and then a shower?

Maybe calls for better rinse of the pump after use, so it is not stored with stuff to dry and then crack off later?
Kind of random guess as I try not to look at it too carefully when working on plumbing as I KNOW what it is there!

It's all that stuff I never wanted to see again!

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Morich

Dried YUCK!

I have found stuff like that in places where yuck drains and most of the water goes out and if the drain sets for some period (think vacant house) the yuck gets really hard and like baked clay! Maybe has a higher amount of sand from going to the beach and then a shower?

Maybe calls for better rinse of the pump after use, so it is not stored with stuff to dry and then crack off later?
Kind of random guess as I try not to look at it too carefully when working on plumbing as I KNOW what it is there!

It's all that stuff I never wanted to see again!

Our coach has been in full-time use since '14. That is what is confusing. The tank doesn't go dry. I have never seen petrified goop like that.... ever. It looks like it is breaking out of a bigger section. I most always use the sen-i-flush system in the tank. Is this another Winnebago design flaw?


Just a thought. Since 2020 we have not traveled much. Came from OR to AL for a family emergency. Then we were called to TX for another family emergence. After dealing with that we came back to AL to be with my mother-in-law. Now she is in assistive living and we are moving to TN next week. This will be the first time the coach will be moved in almost a year. With the lack of movement, could the goop have accumulated in areas not washed by the flush system? Who knows for certain. How much more of that stuff is in there? I hope none of it interferes with future dumps!


In any case, thanks for your thoughts.

[Morich]

Okay, lots of my guesses turn out to be guesses!
So assumingit is not part of the tank, about all that it can be is dried upsolids in what went in the tank.
My move might be to try to get it to break up and be flushed out, so what is the best to try to break down the kind of bond it looks like you have? A strong dose of dish soap if it's grease? Or some really strong bleach if it has an organic part so the chlorine in the bleach would react to remove the grease/organic part?
Is there a time when you could add a bunch of water and just let it soak for several days and then flush it out as well as possible to see if you could get a bunch to fall apart to drain out?

I can't say it is anything that I have seen in RV but I used to buy junk houses and rehab them and I did find really hard deposits of that sort in the larger drains when I opened them to rework the layout. Some of that was grease but I admit that I did not want to look or examine it very close! What you have looks like it has a fair amount of sandy texture to it?

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Morich

Okay, lots of my guesses turn out to be guesses!
So assumingit is not part of the tank, about all that it can be is dried upsolids in what went in the tank.
My move might be to try to get it to break up and be flushed out, so what is the best to try to break down the kind of bond it looks like you have? A strong dose of dish soap if it's grease? Or some really strong bleach if it has an organic part so the chlorine in the bleach would react to remove the grease/organic part?
Is there a time when you could add a bunch of water and just let it soak for several days and then flush it out as well as possible to see if you could get a bunch to fall apart to drain out?

I can't say it is anything that I have seen in RV but I used to buy junk houses and rehab them and I did find really hard deposits of that sort in the larger drains when I opened them to rework the layout. Some of that was grease but I admit that I did not want to look or examine it very close! What you have looks like it has a fair amount of sandy texture to it?

Good morning Richard,
This is a bit concerning. What in the world are we putting through our bodies!!!???
All you have suggested is something we have done frequently over the years. That's why I came to the forum with this. It just didn't seem to fit our practices in maintaining the black tank.

I wonder if this could be from the gray tank? We leave it open when parked. Solids could be left behind and build up over time. But sand? We are not around sand and have not been, to any sustained degree, ever. I guess I'll just have to see if it resolves its self. And that my not be something I will know soon because we are moving to parking with full hookups next week. This will be the first time in 2 years!
Thanks for your help. I guess this will just fall under the RV mystery umbrella.
Rick

[Morich]

Leaving the grey open may be a clue as when we shower we will likely have things on our feet that we may never notice but they "might " build up on the tank bottom due to the limited amount of water there to carry things like sand on over to the pipe and out?

We normally don't stay in one place too long but leave the grey closed and just pull the drain when needing it when we have stayed for a month or so.
The problem you see is not going to be easy to spot what's happening but maybe it is not all that big either, Just hauling a tiny layer here and there until it gets thick enough to break up?

Best of luck . It's always something to confuse us!

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Morich

Leaving the grey open may be a clue as when we shower we will likely have things on our feet that we may never notice but they "might " build up on the tank bottom due to the limited amount of water there to carry things like sand on over to the pipe and out?

We normally don't stay in one place too long but leave the grey closed and just pull the drain when needing it when we have stayed for a month or so.
The problem you see is not going to be easy to spot what's happening but maybe it is not all that big either, Just hauling a tiny layer here and there until it gets thick enough to break up?

Best of luck . It's always something to confuse us!

Thanks. We are moving the rig next week for the first time in nearly a year. My biggest concern now is the DEF condition. When we move I will have some water in both tanks. I'm hoping the sloshing will loosen things up. I'll test the DEF in the tank tomorrow.

We will be able to do a gravity dump soon. The fast draining just might encourage the goop crust to dislodge. I hope it doesn't come off in too large a chunk as to block the drain.
Good place to close this. If I discover what it's all about I'll post that.
Happy trails.
Rick

[NYer]

My question is what are you doing inside of you macerator pump? Yuk! I have had mine apart only because I dropped something down the toilet that would not go through the pump. Was the pump acting wonky, so you took it apart? It looks like dried poop that has flaked off the bottom or side of the tank. Maybe from not being moved?

[Marvin]

This is an accumulation of "black" waste. We full time and were always careful to drain and flush with the system installed by Winnebago, but it still accumulated. As it broke off, it would sometimes block the flow out and/or get stuck in the slide valve and keep it from closing tightly. My solution was to drain the black tank, flush it good and leave the valve open overnight. Things dried mostly. I used an old speedometer cable on the end of a drill and ran it up into the tank and let it flop around. Then I used the flush system and also ran a hose into the stool and added lots of water as I turned on the drill. It broke most of it into small enough pieces to be washed out. I could never figure out why it looked like it did. There was never any sand put in the black tank. Someone told me it was a certain kind of tp that dries like that. I don't understand, we always keep some liquid in our tank and keep the valve closed even when we have full hookups. Strange but the cable on the end of the drill worked. If you don't have an old speedometer cable, maybe a piece of small cable from a hardware store would work. Hope this helps.

[rgrimm]

I had a 2006 (purchased used in 2014) Journey 34H that I had installed a sanicon Macerator. The macerator worked great for 4 years until we were on a trip to Disney Fort Wilderness (12/2018) when I went to dump the black tank, I opened the blade valve turned on the macerator and nothing came out of the 1" output hose. The 3" tank to macerator hose filled (had a clear elbow on it) and pump ran, just no output. I closed the Blade value, removed the 3" hose from tanks to macerator, capped it and switch to my regular 3" slinky home for the remainder of our trip.

At home I empty and removed the 3" feed hose to the macerator and found what appeared as brown/black paint chips of various sizes and shapes that had created a 'dam' in the 3" hose where it feed into the 1" macerator pump, blocking the flow into the macerator. These brown/black chips were thin and hard like potato chips.

Once I saw them it reminded me about a seminar, I went to at a Rally a few years before about 'Tank Health' and maintenance. The person passed around clear jars with dried 'stuff' that came out of black and gray tanks. One jar's content looked just like the stuff that blocked my macerator, just smaller pieces. It came off the walls of the tanks, a thin film of sludge that over time had dryed on the walls of 12 year old black tank. So it is just a normal thing that occurs in your black (and probably gray too) over time. If your tank spends most of its life with liquid in it, keeping the walls moist, this thin film will probably never form. But most of us who don't full-time, our tanks can sit mostly empty for weeks or months at a time allowing the normal sludge to start to dry in the tank walls like a layer of paint. At some point during travel the film will start to break free.
My normal practice was to have at least 5 gallons of water in both my gray and black tanks to always have water covering the tank floor and the back or the blade value.

This process of these wall 'chips' breaking free is only going to present a potential problem for someone like me who was using a macerator pump. Those using a 3" slinky sewer hose the chips would just flow out unnoticed, never causing a blockage in a 3" hose.

My issue happened on a Fort Wilderness christmas time (12/2018) and when we left for our last trip with the Journey for a 2 1/2 month trip west, understanding my tanks were old (2006 Journey) I used a standard 3" sewer hose to avoid any issues on the trip. In October 2019 I sold the Journey
- Russ

[Dennis4809]

When we park at our S&B, I fill both tanks with fresh water. Let things soak for 2-3 months then drain most of it before we leave. No chance for things to dry out. When in use, I leave both tanks closed and drain as needed.

[Knightly]

FYI: I have owned my 2007 Itasca Sunrise, 35A since new. I just replaced my black water gate valve last March for the first time. I always leave both black and grey gate valves closed until the tanks are almost full. Draining then creates quite a "flush" like action for the tanks. I still encountered exactly the same crusty residue as displayed in your photos. It was mostly built up around the exit area prior to the valve. I do not think this residue is anything unusual.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by NYer

My question is what are you doing inside of you macerator pump? Yuk! I have had mine apart only because I dropped something down the toilet that would not go through the pump. Was the pump acting wonky, so you took it apart? It looks like dried poop that has flaked off the bottom or side of the tank. Maybe from not being moved?

I'm not hooked up to sewage. My pump is portable. I have a hose going to a pipe I installed to the septic tank. When I finish dumping the black tank I disconnect and clean the pump and store it. The grey water is disposed of in the ground.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by rgrimm

I had a 2006 (purchased used in 2014) Journey 34H that I had installed a sanicon Macerator. The macerator worked great for 4 years until we were on a trip to Disney Fort Wilderness (12/2018) when I went to dump the black tank, I opened the blade valve turned on the macerator and nothing came out of the 1" output hose. The 3" tank to macerator hose filled (had a clear elbow on it) and pump ran, just no output. I closed the Blade value, removed the 3" hose from tanks to macerator, capped it and switch to my regular 3" slinky home for the remainder of our trip.

At home I empty and removed the 3" feed hose to the macerator and found what appeared as brown/black paint chips of various sizes and shapes that had created a 'dam' in the 3" hose where it feed into the 1" macerator pump, blocking the flow into the macerator. These brown/black chips were thin and hard like potato chips.

Once I saw them it reminded me about a seminar, I went to at a Rally a few years before about 'Tank Health' and maintenance. The person passed around clear jars with dried 'stuff' that came out of black and gray tanks. One jar's content looked just like the stuff that blocked my macerator, just smaller pieces. It came off the walls of the tanks, a thin film of sludge that over time had dryed on the walls of 12 year old black tank. So it is just a normal thing that occurs in your black (and probably gray too) over time. If your tank spends most of its life with liquid in it, keeping the walls moist, this thin film will probably never form. But most of us who don't full-time, our tanks can sit mostly empty for weeks or months at a time allowing the normal sludge to start to dry in the tank walls like a layer of paint. At some point during travel the film will start to break free.
My normal practice was to have at least 5 gallons of water in both my gray and black tanks to always have water covering the tank floor and the back or the blade value.

This process of these wall 'chips' breaking free is only going to present a potential problem for someone like me who was using a macerator pump. Those using a 3" slinky sewer hose the chips would just flow out unnoticed, never causing a blockage in a 3" hose.

My issue happened on a Fort Wilderness christmas time (12/2018) and when we left for our last trip with the Journey for a 2 1/2 month trip west, understanding my tanks were old (2006 Journey) I used a standard 3" sewer hose to avoid any issues on the trip. In October 2019 I sold the Journey
- Russ

Thanks for this info, Russ.
We full-time and have been in the coach since 2014. The tank is always closed. If we get this stuff in our black tanks, what is building up in a S&B septic tank over the years? I often use enzymes in the tank to help keep it clean. I'm wondering if this is worth the money? I just hope I don't go through what you did at Disney. That is hard to deal with in such a public area.
When we get to our new home in TN we will have a new septic system to dump into. Using the 3" hose will be much better for the tank. I much prefer a quick dump with heavy volume over the dump pump.


Too all who have shared there experiences, I am so very grateful
Happy and safe trails.
Rick

[33 foot]

Every now and again when we travel from one site to another and our tank is about half full I will buy a couple of bags of ice and put in down the toilet just before I hit the road. The cubes will tumble around as I drive and clean the side of the tank and break up any hard flakes. By the time I m hooked up to my new site ice is melted and I drain my tank, no problems!!
Sure beats a cable and drill.

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by 33 foot

Every now and again when we travel from one site to another and our tank is about half full I will buy a couple of bags of ice and put in down the toilet just before I hit the road. The cubes will tumble around as I drive and clean the side of the tank and break up any hard flakes. By the time I m hooked up to my new site ice is melted and I drain my tank, no problems!!
Sure beats a cable and drill.

Ice cubes actually do nothing in a holding tank. There is a

utube video

showing what happens using a clear plexiglass tank.


Anyway, the hard stuff in the OP's post was identified several years ago in a thread o irv2.com It may be found by using the Google search feature at the top of their pages.
That's all I remember about that subject, sorry.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

Thanks for this info, Russ.
We full-time and have been in the coach since 2014. The tank is always closed. If we get this stuff in our black tanks, what is building up in a S&B septic tank over the years? I often use enzymes in the tank to help keep it clean. I'm wondering if this is worth the money? I just hope I don't go through what you did at Disney. That is hard to deal with in such a public area.
When we get to our new home in TN we will have a new septic system to dump into. Using the 3" hose will be much better for the tank. I much prefer a quick dump with heavy volume over the dump pump.


Too all who have shared there experiences, I am so very grateful
Happy and safe trails.
Rick

On the value of enzymes? I feel they actually are worth the time/money in septic systems. We had a lake home for a number of years which we only went to occasionally before retiring to it. When we retired, we wanted more space so we did some building and rearranged the plumbing. On cutting into the drains, I was amazed at how little buildup there was on the pipe walls compared to what I expect to find in plumbing in city use.
The difference was that we were on a septic system which had very little lateral lines and we were concerned enough to use the tank treatment, putting a tiny amount down each drain on a schedule we used.

However, I am not sure how well it will work in the occasional use of many RV as the stuff has to stay wet/damp to stay alive and RV tanks will not let it live long enough to actually do it's job.
In your use, being full time, it might be a different answer due to it being somewhat more stable.
Being a rental owner and doing all the work myself, we found a commercal product similar to Rid-x which we bought at a plumber's supply. Same stuff without the added price of ads!
I might be inclined to try it as a reasonably cheap effort? If I can spend ten dollars to avoid drain problems, I'm all for it!

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Morich

On the value of enzymes? I feel they actually are worth the time/money in septic systems. We had a lake home for a number of years which we only went to occasionally before retiring to it. When we retired, we wanted more space so we did some building and rearranged the plumbing. On cutting into the drains, I was amazed at how little buildup there was on the pipe walls compared to what I expect to find in plumbing in city use.
The difference was that we were on a septic system which had very little lateral lines and we were concerned enough to use the tank treatment, putting a tiny amount down each drain on a schedule we used.

However, I am not sure how well it will work in the occasional use of many RV as the stuff has to stay wet/damp to stay alive and RV tanks will not let it live long enough to actually do it's job.
In your use, being full time, it might be a different answer due to it being somewhat more stable.
Being a rental owner and doing all the work myself, we found a commercal product similar to Rid-x which we bought at a plumber's supply. Same stuff without the added price of ads!
I might be inclined to try it as a reasonably cheap effort? If I can spend ten dollars to avoid drain problems, I'm all for it!

Richard, I have been using the stuff I found on Amazon, Instant Power SEPTIC SHOCK in my tank. I have been forced to use the macerator pump for 2 years because of caring for a family member at their home. I put a clear extension between the pump and the RV drain connection. Solids were very evident before I started using this product. After I started using it this was not the case. Most everything is broken down.

We just relocated from AL to TN last week. I don't know how much of the goop got knocked off the walls of the black tank from traveling. My gauge won't go below 1/2 most of the time, so I guess this stuff is the problem and is not gone yet.
At our new location we don't have a dump station yet. That is in the works. So, we must unhook and travel to a Love's to dump when needed. Yes. True PITA and DW is not very happy when we have to do this. She has lots of plants that need to be dealt with plus the normal pack-down stuff. But the upside of this is the tanks are being "exercised" once again on a regular basis. I hope this cation will clear the walls of the tanks.
Rick

[Ray,IN]

Rick, that is

Struvite (mineral deposits),

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Ray,IN

Rick, that is

Good find, Ray. I have a wand like that but haven't used it for some time. When I get to a full huck-up I'll do the deep clean. That will be in a couple of weeks. We are volunteering at Long View Ranch in TN. This will be the first real campsite we have used in about 2+ years. The tank is due for a good flushout.