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Old 10-17-2021, 08:06 PM   #1
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DISH RV tailgater questions

Hello,

So I purchased a 2 Wally setup from Dish with a King portable antenna. Used it for the first time this weekend. Setup went well and even getting activated. Problem is the 2nd wally receiver. Seems to be a common issue when I read online about the "main" being on a certain satellite (119 or 129, etc) and then trying to change the 2nd receiver to another. Definitely did not like it and became instantly problematic. Could never really get it working again for any length of time. Spent some time on the phone with Dish, didn't help much. I did some reading and someone mentioned the Dish 211z receiver as a possible problem solver for the second unit. Does anyone have any experience, suggestions or ideas? I would just like for my daughter to be able to watch some programming while my wife and I watch programming that may happen to be on a different channel. Thanks in advance.
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Old 10-17-2021, 11:05 PM   #2
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Regardless what Dish told you, the only way to have two TVs watching two different programs at the same time is to either have two of the small automatic SAT dishes running, one per Wally, OR to ditch the little SAT dishes and get a larger oval shaped dish (manual or automatic) with 2 or 3 LNBs.

The little automatic SAT dishes, all of them, have only ONE LNB and to even watch TV with one receiver requires the dish to manually move the dish slightly from one satellite to the other.

Yeah, they have two coax outputs on the dish but only one receiver can be the master and the other receiver can only watch channels that are physically located on whatever Satellite the master receiver is on.

When you have a larger oval dish with 3-LNBs the dish never moves. It locks on to all three satellites (110, 119 and 129) at the same time.

Why Dish network support would not be up front with you on this makes no sense. This info is everywhere including in disclaimers on the Winegard and King websites.

It’s not the Wally and I’ve had both a Wally and a VIP 211. It’s the dish and it’s limitation of having only one LNB and not being able to lock on to more than one Satellite at a time.
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Old 10-17-2021, 11:17 PM   #3
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Here is the info and disclaimer from the Playmaker Duo product page:
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Old 10-17-2021, 11:27 PM   #4
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Unfortunately, Dish puts just about all even station number channels on one satellite and all odd numbered stations on another satellite. So when you are watching station 110 you are on one satellite but if you then move up just one channel to 111 outside your small dish physically moves the dish inside the dome to point at another satellite.

And, the number one receiver is the master. Whatever channel the master watches dictates the satellite that the dish is physically pointing at.

So, when the second TV is watching a program on satellite 110 and the “master” receiver decides to change channels during a commercial, say, or for any reason, if the master moves to another satellite then the person on receiver two loses their programming.

You need a dish like this one below to do what you want. However, it costs $1600 plus installation.
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Old 10-18-2021, 10:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creativepart View Post
Regardless what Dish told you, the only way to have two TVs watching two different programs at the same time is to either have two of the small automatic SAT dishes running, one per Wally, OR to ditch the little SAT dishes and get a larger oval shaped dish (manual or automatic) with 2 or 3 LNBs.

The little automatic SAT dishes, all of them, have only ONE LNB and to even watch TV with one receiver requires the dish to manually move the dish slightly from one satellite to the other.

Yeah, they have two coax outputs on the dish but only one receiver can be the master and the other receiver can only watch channels that are physically located on whatever Satellite the master receiver is on.

When you have a larger oval dish with 3-LNBs the dish never moves. It locks on to all three satellites (110, 119 and 129) at the same time.

Why Dish network support would not be up front with you on this makes no sense. This info is everywhere including in disclaimers on the Winegard and King websites.

Itís not the Wally and Iíve had both a Wally and a VIP 211. Itís the dish and itís limitation of having only one LNB and not being able to lock on to more than one Satellite at a time.
Thanks for this reply. Just so I am understanding this completely does this mean that I could watch additional channels on the secondary unit so long as they are receiving channels from the same satellite as the "master" is on? For example if I am watching something on satellite 110 on the master then the secondary could watch any channel on the same satellite, corrrect?

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Old 10-18-2021, 11:23 AM   #6
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Thanks for this reply. Just so I am understanding this completely does this mean that I could watch additional channels on the secondary unit so long as they are receiving channels from the same satellite as the "master" is on?
Yes, but first off, Dish doesn't list channels by SAT number. So you don't actually know what SAT any channels are on.

And any channel surfing on the master receiver will knock the 2nd receiver off whatever they are watching because of how channels ping pong back and forth on different SATs.

And, the second receiver may see channels on their guide that are not available to them because the master is on a channel on a different SAT.

But you are correct - if the master receiver is on a channel on SAT 119 and the 2nd receiver wants to see a channel that is also on SAT 119 then they could both watch their individual channels.

For many years people have been buying a small automatic dish with dual outputs and thinking they could watch two different channels on two TVs at once... like they can at home. The satellite TV industry doesn't help when they advertise that you can do that - just on one specific satellite at a time.

PS. Yesterday I said you had to buy and install the expensive large dish to do what you want, but actually you would simply need to buy a 2nd small automatic dish and have it wired separately to the 2nd TV. I "think" you can log on with two separate dishes on one account. I don't see why not.
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Old 10-24-2021, 10:01 PM   #7
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Listen to Creativepart. I too had the same problem with your same antenna and Wally's. We could watch the same program off of the two Wally's and even separate programs as long as they were on the same Sat channel. However, the wife in the aft TV did not know what I was set to and selected a channel that was on a different Sat - blam everyone went down. I did this twice and just pulled the second Wally. Now the rear TV sees what is on the Forward TV. In retrospect, I would have bought a Tailgater for the Aft TV and kept the King antenna for the Forward TV.
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Old 10-25-2021, 11:24 AM   #8
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We DO NOT trust Dish to tell us the truth as we have got so much bad info and if doing it over we would certainly switch to other providers---if we could find anybody who was able/willing to provide a dependable service.

We are currently NOT getting several channels and Dish shows us programming to try to get us to put pressure on the channel like ABC to get them to reduce their price. I figure I am stuck with paying the Dish fee and they should be stuck with working out a deal with the numerous content providers, it's not my job!

But as long as all the providers do pretty much the same and the industry is totally deregulated, it is going to be us that suffers!

I remember when lots of things like electricity, telephone, and mail were considered to be vital and regulated/ controlled to make sure service quality was maintained but now we have been sold down the river and the whole of Texas losing power is just a PR problem, not something they are required to change!

The post office and public schools are now on the hit list!
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Old 10-25-2021, 11:24 AM   #9
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Trav'lr Report

Agree w all answers to issue, good info. I purchased a Winegard Trav'lr 3 LNB antenna and am able to tune 3 TV receivers each with their own Wally independently. On a different RV I carry a Dish 3 LNB antenna intended for residential use (Dish product # 1000.2) on a tripod, but it needs to be assembled, pointed at the satellites and disassembled at each location.


I attempted to duplicate all remotes control functionality (one remote works everywhere) of my fixed-in-place installation at home, I installed Crane's omni-directional WIFi vertical antenna with their WiFi repeater and plugged in the 3 Wally receivers in the RV with the optional WiFi stick . Everything works EXCEPT the DVR in the home-based Hopper. I can't seem to get "freeze", "rewind" and "forward" functionally on the Wallys in the RV, however I do get streaming (via Dish) capability.


A different approach where WiFi is available, would be to add USB Wifi adapters for Apple TV, Roku or Amazon to your existing setup. This would be inexpensive and only work where fast WiFi signals are available (see Crane Omnidirectional WiFi Repeater above), but would allow different TVs to have different program providers. Need different remotes for each TV and user interface would be different for each TV.



After the effort that it took to install the above, the expense and what I learned, I would seriously consider installing an Internet Satellite Antenna (Hughs, MotoSat) with a WiFi repeater and replace the TV's in the RV with "smart" WiFi streaming capable models. That configuration would also allow use of all WiFi devices independent of each other including smart phones and PC's. Dish TV may be able to provide this WEB functionality, I'm not sure.


The expense would probably be higher but the functionality would be much greater. and boondocking much easier. I have noticed that this approach is very popular in big RVs in Mexico used to support Home-Office capability.
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Old 10-25-2021, 12:05 PM   #10
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I would seriously consider installing an Internet Satellite Antenna (Hughs, MotoSat) with a WiFi repeater and replace the TV's in the RV with "smart" WiFi streaming capable models. That configuration would also allow use of all WiFi devices independent of each other including smart phones and PC's. Dish TV may be able to provide this WEB functionality, I'm not sure.
Woah there, let me caution you on that line of thinking right there.

First, all of the SAT Internet companies you mentioned do not offer roaming service. Your SAT Internet is pinned to your permanent location. You can't pick up and move it via an RV.

So, that pretty much does away with that idea.

Next, for so much less money you can get all the internet you need for streaming TV and connecting not only every TV but all your devices to the internet using cellular broadband service. Not through a smartphone but via cellular based internet routers. And, it's not only less money for the equipment but less money per month for the service as well.

OK, it's not guaranteed to connect everywhere in the country - but you can be sure to connect over 90% of the time. In the past 3-years of travel, roaming over 40,000 miles North, South, East and West we have been without internet in only one location. And that wasn't even out in the boonies - we were just 12 miles north of Memphis, Tennessee.

One last comment - we once lived in a rural mountain town in the early 2000s and had nothing but dial-up internet. We installed Dish Net satellite internet service. It cost $500 for the equipment and $110 a month and was so slow over all we dropped it and went back to dialup. Oh, it was fast if you wanted to download one large file, but a webpage with hundreds of images, links and other files embedded inside took forever for the roundtrip to the SAT for each and every thing on the page.

PS. You don't need to replace your TVs for smart TVs... just buy a less than $100 Roku, AppleTV, Amazon Fire or Google Chromecast and you will have more options than any so-called smart tv can provide.
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Old 10-25-2021, 12:15 PM   #11
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We DO NOT trust Dish to tell us the truth as we have got so much bad info and if doing it over we would certainly switch to other providers---if we could find anybody who was able/willing to provide a dependable service.
It's not that they are purposefully lying to you Richard, they are so big and spread out and they hire the cheapest labor they can find in the US and other countries to provide complex technical info. Then they train them as quickly and incompletely as possible to save more money on each employee.

When we had Dish (for 21 years) we learned to trust the various Satellite TV Forums to answer questions about the Dish service and then we'd normally have to convince the Dish support people to transfer us up to higher and higher level folks to get anything done properly.

We dumped Dish in 2017 when we got our new RV - both at home and on the RV and moved 100% to streaming. And we've never been happier. Because now we pay for and get only the TV content we want to watch.
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Old 10-25-2021, 09:38 PM   #12
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In the weeds........

Re. MotoSat and Hughs - Check out what long haul semi-truck drivers are doing.......
The second disadvantage after cost is the dish size, about 3 ft. wide.



Two dynamic things are happening with the TV technology - 1. In-motion RV capability vs semi-permanent (antenna, digital error correction and latency compensation) and content delivery systems (Satelitte, cell tower, hot spot (Panera), Ethernet (copper cable) @ RV Resort).


There is nothing that prevents you from uprooting your home satellite TV system and packing it in the RV. If your RV is located in a place where all three Dish Satellites are line-of-site, the functionality remains the same (more or less) as at home.



The current trend is away from satellite content providers (Dish and Direct TV) and headed toward streaming (WiFi). Wifi streaming can be achieved using a satellite dish, cell phone tower, hot spot (Panera) or Ethernet Cable at an RV Resort. The number of content providers increases dramatically, Roku, Apple, Amazon have hundreds of channels available in addittion to Dish and Direct offerings.



Recall that you can get Dish TV (mydish.com) on your PC or cell phone, the signal isn't coming from a satellite.


So sorry for the detail but as long as I am in the weeds - you can hook your PC to the RV TV using an HDMI cable and then using a WiFi USB adapter in the PC receive any WiFi content like foxnews,com or dish.com WITHOUT any receiver at all. This is the setup I use on my stationary RV along with the CC Crane antenna/repeated in place of the WiFi/USB adapter. FREE TV so far.
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Old 10-26-2021, 10:30 AM   #13
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Independant TV programming Follow-Up

Coincidentally - I saw on Bloomberg business news this morning that Elon Musk (Tesla CEO) just financed a 10 billion dollar investment in a low earth orbit satellite WEB network.


This technology is WiFi, not satellite, supporting the trend away from Dish and Direct satellite TV. Verizon is a leader in this WiFi network approach. At some point in the future when WiFi is ubiquitous, RV's will probably have only WiFi.



Back to the initial issue (different programming content on multiple TV's), seems like it makes sense from the expense, obsolescence, RV installation and technology point of view to to go with WiFi based Roku, Firestick, Apple TV or Sling TV. Several specialized Smart TV providers offer their own WEB programming (check out RoKu TV receivers at WalMart or Amazon branded "TCL", eliminating the need for any USB adapters or subscription fees. You can add your current Dish programing to the Smart TV programming for $5/month, adding a Wally is $7/mth and has to be turned on/off when the RV is not in use by calling Dish, a lengthy and frustrating endeavor.



Both Dish TV and Direct are heavily invested in Geosynchronous (hi altitude) satellites and are frantically trying to offer WEB based content on that technology. They might succeed. Low orbit satellites w WiFi solve many of the technical problems but alas, they fall to earth before their hi altitude geosynchronous parents.


For now, WiFi TV is limited to locations where WiFi can be received, not currently suitable for boondockers except through an intermediary satellite TV provider or a specialized provider (Hughs, Motosat, etc.) or a cell tower.


Don't forget, a solution to the current issue is also Over-the-Air (OTA) TV, use the BatWing Antenna on one of the TV's and Satellite on the other. Inexpensive and simple.
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Old 10-26-2021, 11:22 AM   #14
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Shedboy... concerning your your Elon Musk comment - you're talking about Starlink which is a traditional satellite based system and not wifi from space.

WiFi can be extended for a number of miles (10 to 22) but it cannot extend from low earth orbit to the ground and is not part of Starlink's system.

Starlink uses thousands of somewhat traditional satellites transmitting from low earth orbit (as opposed to Geo Sync Orbits of the previous SAT internet systems). The receiving end requires a small satellite dish that tracks the array of Starlink satellites as they move through the sky. The end user's modem that is connected to the satellite receiver does, of course, use WiFi to connect to the user to the network in the same way that a cable or fiber modem broadcasts wifi to a home but the WiFi signal is certainly not coming from the satellites.

Currently, Starlink is in beta for certain locations and looking to come out of beta in the next few months. It is not a viable option at this point for RV use but plans to be sometime in the future.

Today, the standard method of accessing the internet while on the road - right now - is via cellular broadband. And, while it's true it's not everywhere, especially in the deepest reaches of the uninhabited southwest - it has proven to be available in a vast majority of places.

Once the Starlink system is setup for mobile use - it is currently geo locked to a specific address - it will then provide what appears to be the best option of receiving fast, reliable internet in virtually all locations with a clear view of the sky.

Restaurants and retail shop WiFi is not a option for RVers due to their retail locations. And, campground and even RV Resort WiFi is not a very reliable option for RVers due to their inferior and many times over burdened hardware and limited data bandwidth. I know of no RV Resorts that offer cable internet to transient visitors, only permanent or semi-permanent residents that live in the RV park and set up their own service with a local provider.

A great resource for all of things "mobile internet" is www.rvmobileinternet.com

PS. The "CC Crane antenna/repeater" you mention is simply a wifi extender that has a workable range of 1/2 mile and a maximum range of 3 miles. To get "Free" internet with that device you must be within range of OPEN WiFi sources - which exist in towns and cities sporadically at best. Certainly, not something that provides a traveling RVer reliable internet access.
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Old 10-26-2021, 01:52 PM   #15
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Great Discussion,dandr64 inquiry is for different programming for two tv's, I think the primary question is Do you want boondocking , RV Park capability or in-motion capability. Do you want live or recorded programming.



1. For boon-docking seems like Satellite TV with independent systems (two TVs, two Wallys, two antennas) is an economical/practical solution.
2. For Metropolitan RV Park w quality WiFi,
Solution A: OTA Batwing on both TV's
Solution B: OTA batwing antenna on one TV, Wally on the other.
Solution C: USB Stick* (content provider specific) on 1 TV, Wally on the other
Solution D: USB Stick* on each TV
Solution E: 2 totally independent Dish TV systems.
Solution F: RV park supplied Ethernet (they do exist) cable w splitter for each TV
Solution G: Replace TV's w Smart TVs, the WiFi/USB sticks are built into ea TV + additional programing.
Solution H: (similar to solution C) Purchase a set top box for Roku, Sling, Apple TV for 1 TV, Wally on the other.


*USB stick supplied by Firestick,Roku,Sling,DISH,ETC


COMMENTS
1. WALLY - to get full functionality, Wally needs WEB (WiFi) access in addition to satellite antenna. Dish TV supplies a Wally specific USB adapter for this purpose.

2. ALL ROOF MOUNTED ANTENNA's, most exceed 14 feet from the ground when fully extended, most have no alarms or indicators to stow the antenna before going mobile. Need to be triple sure antenna is fully stowed before RV is in motion, won't fit under 1st freeway overpass.
3. WiFI SIGNAL STRENGTH A WiFi signal extender/repeater or directional WiFi antenna can be added to amplify the RV Park WiFi signal.This would improve all solutions except F.

I have two RV's and travel extensively. The stationary RV has the C Crane directional antenna pointed at Safeway Grocery Store about 1 mile away. Free TV and internet for my PC w Crane's router ! Biggest issue is the 30' USB cable limits how high the antenna can be to avoid obstacles.
,
2nd RV has C Crane vertical unidirectional antenna with USB PC interface. Works in Hotel parking lots, the desk clerk readily gives password, any mall, Panera, airport parking lots, etc. I have never had difficulty getting free access in metro areas.,
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Old 10-26-2021, 06:55 PM   #16
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Correction - meant to say 2nd RV has OMNIdirectional, not unidirectional antenna.


OVER THE EDGE - I don't recommend this to anyone except experimenters, its not ready for prime time!

To further demonstrate the trend to WiFi rather than Satellite and to add another solution to the initial issue,

1. the below product is a PC integrated on an HDMI jack, plugs directly into the TV receiver and gives the TV no cost programing. It has a WiFi antenna and with a wireless keyboard makes the TV capable of displaying Hulu, Popcorn, Sling, Netflix, Roku, Mydish, etc, without a receiver.


2. Ragged, but it works - you can take your one LMB or multi LMB dish antenna and duct tape a USB WiFi adapter to the center horn (LNA). Point the dish at a WiFi source (RV Park, Panera, etc.) and plug in the USB cable to the PC. Poorman's WiFi range extender! Not for the faint hearted, need to do software gymnastics!



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