Tires - blowouts/damage

[Rustyturn]

Johneed Don't wait. I waited and had to pull support beams back straight with a comealong. I just wanted to get one more year. The steel belt on my Good Rides separated but didn't come all the way off. Tore up the wheelwell area of my camper. Cheaper to replace tires than have aggravation and expense of rebuilding camper and still buying tires.

[Farmhood]

I’m in the commercial tire business. All the advice is right on. My opinion is this: 1) PSI - low air pressure 2) GVW - overweight. Both create excessive heat and heat is your enemy.
3) Premium Tires - US regulations & guidelines help control consistency in the manufacturing process vs overseas. 4) Age - Tires are designed to flex. At 5 to 6 years from D.O.T. date with 15,000 -20,000 miles they have not exercised enough and start to risk tire failure.

Now I’ll share my bias... Michelin is the only manufacturer that designs their bead package as rectangular type metal strands encased in rubber positioned at a 35 degree angle for mounting in the wheel. All others are circular metal strands wrapped and encased in rubber. Michelin technology credits this 35 degree angle with increase sidewall performance in turn increases tread performance.

[reeman]

Originally Posted by Rustyturn

Johneed Don't wait. I waited and had to pull support beams back straight with a comealong. I just wanted to get one more year. The steel belt on my Good Rides separated but didn't come all the way off. Tore up the wheelwell area of my camper. Cheaper to replace tires than have aggravation and expense of rebuilding camper and still buying tires.

Best advise on this thread about st tire care.

[reeman]

Originally Posted by Farmhood

I’m in the commercial tire business. All the advice is right on. My opinion is this: 1) PSI - low air pressure 2) GVW - overweight. Both create excessive heat and heat is your enemy.
3) Premium Tires - US regulations & guidelines help control consistency in the manufacturing process vs overseas. 4) Age - Tires are designed to flex. At 5 to 6 years from D.O.T. date with 15,000 -20,000 miles they have not exercised enough and start to risk tire failure.

Now I’ll share my bias... Michelin is the only manufacturer that designs their bead package as rectangular type metal strands encased in rubber positioned at a 35 degree angle for mounting in the wheel. All others are circular metal strands wrapped and encased in rubber. Michelin technology credits this 35 degree angle with increase sidewall performance in turn increases tread performance.

I would love to put a pair of MICHELIN X One Line Energy T2 445/50R22.5s on our Winnie drop after we replace the axle.

[Farmhood]

Originally Posted by reeman

I would love to put a pair of MICHELIN X One Line Energy T2 445/50R22.5s on our Winnie drop after we replace the axle.

LOL you made think of that for the first time and I bet that would look wild.

[reeman]

Just put a few bales of hay on top, your wife, horse and kids inside and off to the Oregon trail you go! No more problems with having a trailer that has cheap crap axles and tires that can't take a decent amount of load over the dry weight they were built with.Yes I am pissed at having purchased a trailer from a once reputable firm that is pathetically low spec on safety of the tires and axle right off the assembly line!
The lemon tree stickers to replace the winnie drop logo stickers on our trailer are about to be ordered.

[reeman]

This tire and axle mod should work even better than what came from the factory on the original winnie drops.

[creativepart]

Reman, what you describe is not unique to Winnebago. All travel trailers and RVs are designed and built to their price point.

That doesn’t mean the RV isn’t perfectly adequate for it’s purpose as designed and sold and thousands of owners are satisfied with their TT exactly as it’s shipped from the factory. Others may wish to upgrade tires, axles, batteries, etc to better suit their needs. But this is not some failing of the manufacturer.

Proper tire care includes proper loading, proper inflation, replacing when aged and a measure of luck to not get a puncture. None of this is new, especially on any kind of trailer with ST tires.

[reeman]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Reman, what you describe is not unique to Winnebago. All travel trailers and RVs are designed and built to their price point.

That doesn’t mean the RV isn’t perfectly adequate for it’s purpose as designed and sold and thousands of owners are satisfied with their TT exactly as it’s shipped from the factory. Others may wish to upgrade tires, axles, batteries, etc to better suit their needs. But this is not some failing of the manufacturer.

Proper tire care includes proper loading, proper inflation, replacing when aged and a measure of luck to not get a puncture. None of this is new, especially on any kind of trailer with ST tires.

Turns out that lifting the trailer is not that big a deal. This is not at all for the purposes of making a Winnie Drop into an off road hot rod. Using thin walled st tires off road is a real crap shoot. It all comes down to the more ply on the sidewall the better and slow movement only over pointy rocks hoping that some red neck in a monster truck with quads on the back does not come barreling down the road and run you off into the ditch or over a cliff here on Vancouver Island.

Low spec 14" 6 ply st rubber is not a good or safe option when the combined capacity of the tires is not even as high as the loaded gvrw of the trailer. Fine for delivery of the unit but an unsafe option for the customer and as such the sales people and brochures that came with the unit should indicate that the tires are not adequate for extended use at all.

We take the best care possible of our rolling stock as should all rv owners if they expect to roll down any road at high speed safely. This is why I have extended my posts on this particular thread. Our neighbor bought a heavier single axle trailer that was fitted with off road package only to find out that his axle was horribly under spec for the weight of the unit even with just water in the fresh water tank and no other load on the unit. They are currently replacing the springs and having a new axle built for the trailer at considerably greater expense to replace the one that bowed out to an unsafe degree. So yes Winnebago is certainly not alone in scrimping on running gear specs. Forest River is not exactly saintly either.

Overall we are delighted with the quality of the Winnie Drop and will spend what is necessary to bring the running gear on it up to snuff.

[backtrack15]

You could make a pretty coherent argument that Forest River is far more aggressive with their dual torsion axle trailers. Their cargo capacities take the axles right to their limits.

For the 2021b Micro Minnies, Winnebago puts 8800+ pounds of tire capacity and 6000 pounds of axle on trailers rated for 5500 GVWR. The same trailer, if sold by Forest River, would have a GVWR of about 6800 lbs (axle capacity + tongue load + weight of tires/wheels).

[reeman]

Originally Posted by backtrack15

You could make a pretty coherent argument that Forest River is far more aggressive with their dual torsion axle trailers. Their cargo capacities take the axles right to their limits.

For the 2021b Micro Minnies, Winnebago puts 8800+ pounds of tire capacity and 6000 pounds of axle on trailers rated for 5500 GVWR. The same trailer, if sold by Forest River, would have a GVWR of about 6800 lbs (axle capacity + tongue load + weight of tires/wheels).

Yes Winnebago is putting out the superior tear drop trailer. The law suit trailer was a gamble on their part but it was a mistake specking an axle that has no safety margin to speak of and especially specking load range C 14s on a trailer that has a gross of over 3500 lbs and a weight distribution difference between the slideout side and the passenger side. A sure fire tire, axle and wheel bearing maintenance nightmare.


The heavily loaded trailing arm cantilever lippert design cannot be flipped so there is no way of evening out the wear on the internal rubber springs like on other designs of rubber suspension axles.

We would have purchased one of the older tear drops from before the Forest River juggernaut take over era. But the early tear drops that had superior quality construction are now going for insane prices the same as good Bolers, Bigfoots and other similar light fiberglass trailers here in BC. A high quality Escape has a long waiting list as does a Bigfoot. They are our first choice if we upgrade from a Winnie Drop. Even older ones that need a complete rebuild are going for insane prices.

We were hoping to avoid a huge expense servicing a trailer immediately so it is our fault for not doing more research into the problems inherent in the Winnie Drop 1780s with a slideout kitchen before purchasing it.
Such is life. Caveat emptor is the norm as always especially with rolling stock.

PS.
Thanks for correcting my miss naming of gross weight ratings to "GVRW", it has been a very long time since I had to run over highway scales one side at a time on a regular basis to make certain that a trailer is not overloaded on one side...LOL The last time it was with 36000 lbs of mud and gravel and the guy making me check my balance was in a booth with a ticket in hand and set of portables ready. But that was back when I was young and stupid and didn't care if my load was tipping a bit going down the road.

[Ret.LEO]

It blows my mind that people will put anything less than the best tires they can afford.
What is the only thing that touches the road ...your tires! I drove semi's for twenty years before going to Law Enforcement for 17 years.
My company only used Michelins...never a blow out. Got the extra mileage out of them that may them dollar wise. We tried Yokohamas on some road tractors with some success, some Firestones, some BF Goodrich, then back to Michelins.
On patrol cars we used speed rated Goodyears. Good tires but we had a lot of flint in our gravel roads which was hard on them. We could tell which Deputy was staying to highways and which ones were patrolling the back roads.

For travel trailers I would stick to Endurance if you want to stay ST, better yet though are the Michelin LT's.
You just can't go wrong with a Michelin.....you get what you pay for....same with the off brand bargain tires...pay less money....get less quality
It go's without saying you MUST check tire pressure every day before taking off, thump the duals on motor homes at least, tire pressure gauge preferred, TPMS is the best.

[reeman]

Originally Posted by Ret.LEO

It blows my mind that people will put anything less than the best tires they can afford.
What is the only thing that touches the road ...your tires! I drove semi's for twenty years before going to Law Enforcement for 17 years.
My company only used Michelins...never a blow out. Got the extra mileage out of them that may them dollar wise. We tried Yokohamas on some road tractors with some success, some Firestones, some BF Goodrich, then back to Michelins.
On patrol cars we used speed rated Goodyears. Good tires but we had a lot of flint in our gravel roads which was hard on them. We could tell which Deputy was staying to highways and which ones were patrolling the back roads.

For travel trailers I would stick to Endurance if you want to stay ST, better yet though are the Michelin LT's.
You just can't go wrong with a Michelin.....you get what you pay for....same with the off brand bargain tires...pay less money....get less quality
It go's without saying you MUST check tire pressure every day before taking off, thump the duals on motor homes at least, tire pressure gauge preferred, TPMS is the best.

We have them on our tow vehicle. HOWEVER just to put things straight Michelin does not manufacture an LT that can fit Winnie Drops unless we opted to do a dangerous modification to the Lippert brake drum by adding a wide spacing flange extension for longer wheel bolts and a 15 inch rim to fit 235s. The smallest C load rated LT from Michelin is a 235 mm for a 15 inch rim.

Putting Michelin LTs on our trailer is even more dangerous on the Winnie Drop than the tires that it came with. Ones that could be mickey moused to fit our setup are not load and speed rated any higher than the Carlisle LR D 14's 205 STs that we just installed. I will keep them up at max pressure and they should be a much safer option than what was on the trailer in the first place.

But if we must all switch to Michelin tires or only use Goodyear products then I guess I will have to import my tires from Europe or Japan where old school 10 ply higher rated commercial delivery van special purpose LT 205 by 14 and 15s size tires are still readily available.

[Ret.LEO]

Originally Posted by reeman

We have them on our tow vehicle. HOWEVER just to put things straight Michelin does not manufacture an LT that can fit Winnie Drops unless we opted to do a dangerous modification to the Lippert brake drum by adding a wide spacing flange extension for longer wheel bolts and a 15 inch rim to fit 235s. The smallest C load rated LT from Michelin is a 235 mm for a 15 inch rim.

Putting Michelin LTs on our trailer is even more dangerous on the Winnie Drop than the tires that it came with. Ones that could be mickey moused to fit our setup are not load and speed rated any higher than the Carlisle LR D 14's 205 STs that we just installed. I will keep them up at max pressure and they should be a much safer option than what was on the trailer in the first place.

But if we must all switch to Michelin tires or only use Goodyear products then I guess I will have to import my tires from Europe or Japan where old school 10 ply higher rated commercial delivery van special purpose LT 205 by 14 and 15s size tires are still readily available.

I was talking about the original posters problem....not yours. My suggestion pertains to "most" travel trailers, 5th wheels, motor homes and tow vehicles......not your unusual situation. As suggested: buy the best quality tires possible.

[reeman]

Originally Posted by Ret.LEO

I was talking about the original posters problem....not yours. My suggestion pertains to "most" travel trailers, 5th wheels, motor homes and tow vehicles......not your unusual situation. As suggested: buy the best quality tires possible.

Still a problem depending on the factory configuration of the original posters trailer If clayowensby has six bolt rims for up to 235s then he can switch to 235 15s His trailer came with 14s so most likely he has 5 bolt pattern drums that spec our at maximum rim size for 225 x 15 with today's ST rim standards. His best option is most likely to switch to 5 bolt 15 inch rims and bump up to a set of 15 inch load range D.

Putting on 15 inch LT 235's is not an option unless he changes axles or uses flanges to covert to a six bolt wider rim configuration. Goodyear's STs or Carslisle's similar spec St's are his best option, but Michelin Lts are not possible for him unless he takes it on the chin and upgrades the axles or does something stupid and uses extension flanges like on some red neck monster trucks with tractor tires.

[Ret.LEO]

Originally Posted by reeman

Still a problem depending on the factory configuration of the original posters trailer If clayowensby has six bolt rims for up to 235s then he can switch to 235 15s His trailer came with 14s so most likely he has 5 bolt pattern drums that spec our at maximum rim size for 225 x 15 with today's ST rim standards. His best option is most likely to switch to 5 bolt 15 inch rims and bump up to a set of 15 inch load range D.

Putting on 15 inch LT 235's is not an option unless he changes axles or uses flanges to covert to a six bolt wider rim configuration. Goodyear's STs or Carslisle's similar spec St's are his best option, but Michelin Lts are not possible for him unless he takes it on the chin and upgrades the axles or does something stupid and uses extension flanges like on some red neck monster trucks with tractor tires.

Exactly....that's why I said if you want or have to use ST's the Goodyear Endurance id the best bet right now or even Sailuns if needed

[reeman]

Just checked again and the the trailer of the OP is on 15s so he can bump up to a heavier side wall st 10 ply 225. The cost is well worth the safety margin increase and the tires are about 200 each. 235s could cause problems on a rim that is not made for them so 235 or 7 inch rim tires for light truck use are not good choice but could be forced onto his existing 15 inch rims by mistake. I would imagine that some trailer owners have put on over sized light truck tires by mistake.

If he does have the six bolt pattern drums then he could go for even larger tires by changing the rims. if he has enough spring clearance to the undercarriage. Any kind of rough road is going to break springs if there is not enough rubber on the road to take a little bit of the load shock off the suspension. But a little larger foot print from the tires is a good thing as long as you don't drive like al fangio and scub the crap out of the setup going around corners at high speed.

Personally this is what I would do in is situation. Running a set of 4 15s C range tires, even the ones rated slightly over 2000 lbs on a trailer with a gross of 9000 is not a good idea IMO and is most likely why he has been popping rear axle axle tires. Harder tires at full inflation should even lessen the rolling resistance of his rig. Personally my setup is always with at least a 20% safety margin from gross to running gear if not then I drop my speed considerably and increase my on the trail road checks. I like to get where I am going and if it takes a few minutes longer then who the hell cares?