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Old 01-26-2017, 10:43 PM   #1
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Switching from Michelin to Toyo

Hi all,
Its really time to re-tire! I have newer Michelin xrv 235x80x22.5 steer tires 1 year old, but the rears are 10years old this year and they have lots of tread left, but substantial side wall cracking. the Big O tire guy here said Michelin is noted for premature side wall cracking and recommended the Toyo 245x75x22.5 as they have a heavier steel side wall and more resistant to the side wall issue as well as over $125.00 per tire cheaper. What do you people think? have many of you switched to toyos? Also anybody recommend the m144 v m154, any concerns with mix and matching the sizes?
Thank you in advance
Milo
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Old 01-26-2017, 10:55 PM   #2
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Also consider the M177. According to all the Toyo tire people I talked with the M177 is smoother, quieter, and more fuel efficient than the M154, with a ride comparable to the Michelin., (better than my XZE's they replaced, but can't speak for other Michelin models) But I've only read and heard good reports on the M154.
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:55 AM   #3
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I had 3 sets of Michelins. After uneven wear on the fronts and sidewall cracking I switched to Toyo 154's. IMHO a much better tire at a much better price.
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Old 01-27-2017, 04:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milom View Post
Hi all,
Its really time to re-tire! I have newer Michelin xrv 235x80x22.5 steer tires 1 year old, but the rears are 10years old this year and they have lots of tread left, but substantial side wall cracking. the Big O tire guy here said Michelin is noted for premature side wall cracking and recommended the Toyo 245x75x22.5 as they have a heavier steel side wall and more resistant to the side wall issue as well as over $125.00 per tire cheaper. What do you people think? have many of you switched to toyos? Also anybody recommend the m144 v m154, any concerns with mix and matching the sizes?
Thank you in advance
Milo
Milo, Toyo is a great choice. But, with any tire, you must consider many factors. A couple of things to consider is the load range and revolutions per mile as compared with your existing tires. Also, tread with is important for the duels. You must maintain the correct clearance between the sidewalls. Also your max tire pressure should be considered. My OME Michelin's came out of the factory running max psi or load rating. I did not like that idea. When they started to side crack I opted to up the load rating. I am now running H load. This gives me headroom so to speak.

I am running the M154's on the rear of this rig and I love them. The M177 is considered a steer tire. In truth a steer tire will work in any position but during its early life it is directional in rotation on the coach. My TPMS is indicating that the tires are running cooler and gaining less rolling pressure than the old ones. This is very good because less rolling heat means longer, safer service from the tires.

I hope I have helped and not confused you.

Happy trails,
Rick Y
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Old 01-27-2017, 05:50 PM   #5
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Thanks Jerichorick
I believe the m177 are a larger tire than is recommended for my rig. the Big o guy tells me there is only 1/4" difference in tire width and 1/4" diff in tire height going from 235 up to 245 and down to 75from 80. Says he does it all the time with great success.
I am just curious if the mismatch between steer and drive tires will cause any long term pain?
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Old 01-28-2017, 12:21 PM   #6
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Have used Toyos in the past and they are a good tire. No worries there. There are only slight diffs in the Mich and Toyos sizes, here's a link to a comparison of all the factors.

Tire Comparison

BTW, they are available at Amazon, free shipping if you're a Prime member. Love's tire shops will install them, $40 each, includes balancing. Then $8 each for brass air valve replacements.

Toyos at Amazon
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Old 01-28-2017, 02:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milom View Post
Thanks Jerichorick
I believe the m177 are a larger tire than is recommended for my rig. the Big o guy tells me there is only 1/4" difference in tire width and 1/4" diff in tire height going from 235 up to 245 and down to 75from 80. Says he does it all the time with great success.
I am just curious if the mismatch between steer and drive tires will cause any long term pain?
If that is the XRV you are replacing on a 22.5 rim the RPM is 556 and duel spacing 10.3" (Tire Selector | Michelin RV Tires). The M154 is a 551RPM tire. The X is 9.2" wide and the M is 9.5" and weighs about 10# more. (https://www.toyotires.com/commercial...-position-tire). You should not have a problem.

As far as front to rear size handling goes I doubt you will notice any adversity. You just can't rotate front to rear. I'm in the same boat. I have steer on the front.

Let us know how you like the M154's. I hope you are as pleased as I have been. I truly feel safer and find the ride much better than on the Michelin RV tires. Bought them in Oregon last May. We have traveled over 5K miles since. We even went through The Great Teton park without a problem do to tires. The coach pulled the 10% grades without a problem, even with cruse on and at the speed limit of 25mph. That was a very busy drive for me. Not much time to sight see on that snakes back.

Rick Y
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Old 02-02-2017, 08:41 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Milom View Post
Hi all,
Its really time to re-tire! I have newer Michelin xrv 235x80x22.5 steer tires 1 year old, but the rears are 10years old this year and they have lots of tread left, but substantial side wall cracking. the Big O tire guy here said Michelin is noted for premature side wall cracking and recommended the Toyo 245x75x22.5 as they have a heavier steel side wall and more resistant to the side wall issue as well as over $125.00 per tire cheaper. What do you people think? have many of you switched to toyos? Also anybody recommend the m144 v m154, any concerns with mix and matching the sizes?
Thank you in advance
Milo
I am sure the Toyo's will be fine but as one who has worked in the tire industry, I must clarify a couple of things your dealer said.

1. The cracking in the sidewall has absolutely nothing to do with the steel in the sidewall. The cracking comes from the ozone in the atmosphere. It breaks down the polymer chains in the rubber. It is commonly refereed to as Dry Rot. Simply covering your tires when outdoors when not moving will delay any cracking to long after your tires has exceeded their useful age. Every tire compound has wax mixed into it. The wax blooms to the surface to give the tire protection against ozone. When we wash tires and through simple wear this wax is finally depleted and that is when the cracking occurs.

I see no issues with Mixing Toyo's on the rear and Michelin's on the front since most of us don't rotate tires.

Hope this helps.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:05 AM   #9
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I have toyo's and they are very good tires. IMHO
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Old 02-04-2017, 07:47 PM   #10
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Put 8 new Toyo M154 tires on our rig last November replacing the 6 year 72K mile OEM Michelin. Very happy with the tires and the ride and less dollars out of pocket.

PS If you are in WA state, go down to a Les Schwab in Oregon and avoid sales tax!!!!!
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Old 02-04-2017, 08:01 PM   #11
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I replaced my Michelin's with Toyo's (154) 4 1/2 years ago and couldn't be happier. Saved about $1100, bought at Les Schwab in Salem, Oregon.
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Old 02-04-2017, 08:06 PM   #12
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Just changed tires on my 07 Journey. Went with SAMSON. I had Michelin 255x80R 22.5 which is a Michelin. I put SAMSON 255x70R22.5 on. Just completed a 1000 mile trip and we'll satisfied and saved over $1000. My speedometer now is about 3 miles fast and it may wander abit more but due to winds and very uneven roads in SC and GA that may not be the tires. Overall I'm happy.
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Old 02-04-2017, 08:29 PM   #13
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I went from michelin to toyo m154 and will never go back, the toyos ride and handle much better.
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Old 02-05-2017, 06:53 AM   #14
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I went from michelin to toyo m154 and will never go back, the toyos ride and handle much better.
X2. Bought in Grants Pass, OR at LS late last spring. In July we started a cross country trip that was over 5000 miles. The coach was so/is much more stable than with the Michelin's. The TPMS is showing less pressure gain over cold psi as compared with the Michelin's. On the external 507 sensors, they read more the on the ambient temperature than the tire internal temperature. It is the psi that needs to be watched. Before a tire will blow out the psi will increase significantly over the others. Toyo is a great replacement for the Michelin's. I wish Freightliner would switch to the Toyo's out of the factory.

I know what I have said here will rub some Michelin loyal folks the wrong way. In other threads folks from the tire and trucking industry have defended Michelin with lengthy stats. I don't know why we are seeing so many RVers switching to other brands and having better results in the long run, contrary to the professional studies. All I know is that this is my third coach since '05 with Michelin to Toyo change. I am convinced, from experience, that the Toyo is a better choice for the class A motorhome.

Happy trails,
Rick Y
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Old 02-06-2017, 06:25 PM   #15
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Toyos have been great for me. Saves on the pocket book also! Do it u will not regret the decision.
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Old 02-06-2017, 06:33 PM   #16
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That was one of the choices that Les Schwab in Junction City gave me. The only maker of the 365/70 tires on my front and tag is Michelin but they said I could go with TOYO for the 315/80 drive tires. I opted to go with Michelins all the way around.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:16 PM   #17
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Switched from Goodyear RV670's to six Toyo M177's about a year and 10,000 miles ago. I am satisfied with their performance and can't complain about the $ savings over Goodyear or Michelin. These would be my choice for my next tire change. I went with the M177 for the added load capacity.
They do steer a little softer than the Goodyears, meaning that there is a slight delay in sharp turning response due to the softer sidewall. I don't make many sharp turns with the bus. As others have noted, the Toyos have more of an organic smell than the typical chemical smell in a tire department. If you were raised on a farm, you will never notice it. As with other tires, the smell is most prominent when they are new and warm. Not a deal breaker.
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Old 02-06-2017, 07:23 PM   #18
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A note to consider, the Michelin brand does a really different "size" nomenclature than all the other tire makers. Don't be concerned, the M177 will fit just fine
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:16 AM   #19
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A note to consider, the Michelin brand does a really different "size" nomenclature than all the other tire makers. Don't be concerned, the M177 will fit just fine
I agree. To come as close as you can to your existing tire rotation per mile compare the michelin size specs with the tire you want. What ever tire you get, make certain that the date code is within a few months of the install date. As stated earlier, I am very pleased with my TOYO M154's.

Happy trails,
Rick Y
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Old 02-17-2017, 08:08 AM   #20
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Rick,

What's your psi gain from cold to normal operating temp?
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