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Old 03-21-2020, 08:04 PM   #21
Winnie-Wise
 
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Mark,
Excellent job on your repair and for keeping us all up to date! As I mentioned in my earlier post, dirty valves have been reported in the past to cause these problems. Now we know how to handle that thanks to you.

Can you clarify a couple of things:
1. Did you need to use the new solenoid or did cleaning solve the problem?
2. Once removed from the housing, you completely disassembled one valve to clean it but not the others. After doing it both ways, do you think it is necessary to completely disassemble the valve to clean it or does the brake cleaner flush out enough stuff to clean the valve?
3. It looks like there are O-rings on the valves. Did you replace any of those or did they look like they were in good shape?
4. After having so much fun working on the "extend" valves and solenoids, are you going to clean-up the "retract" valves and solenoids?

Once again, great job and thanks for write-up!
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:32 AM   #22
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I did not end up using the new electric actuator, I checked all the old ones by the tried and true method of holding a screwdriver up to them as they were powered up and felt the magnetic pull. I know this wouldn't always let you know if you a "lazy" one, but since I didn't feel any completely dead ones, I decided to leave those alone unless I didn't get it going, otherwise.
I don't think I would disassemble them completely without a good reason to do so. I'm sure the ones that I did aren't perfect with the seating distance. This would be something critical for optimum flow thru the valve. If someone could tell me the "proper" way to set the seating, I would probably go back in and redo it. I think for most shade tree mechanics just pulling them out and cleaning with brake cleaning and inspecting the screens for debris would do the trick, just pay close attention to the small port on the end to be sure its clear.
The o-rings were in good shape, I reused them. There are 2 on each valve, a regular round o-ring went on first followed by a square shouldered o-ring last.
I only looked at one of the rear jack retracts after my initial fiasco with the left rear not retracting. That's when I figured out the setting the seat distance that I'd screwed up with the extend valve. I hadn't had any retraction problems, so I did not pull all of the retract valves. I may have to in the future, but I was really "done" working on this thing for right now.
Hope this helps.
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Old 03-27-2020, 11:32 AM   #23
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thanks soooooomuch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
What better way to spend a "shelter in place" from the COVID19 in Illinois than working on leveling jacks. Here goes for a long post and hopefully pics. First off, this is my keypad https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...1&d=1584816591
This is my pump unit
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...1&d=1584816716
Here's a pic of the solenoids on the extend side (the side that you can see and easily get to from the side of the coach
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...1&d=1584817046
The left rear was one giving me fits, so I thought I'd just take it out to see what I could see, this is the left rear extend solenoid valve
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...1&d=1584816882
So then I decided to see what makes these things tick, here's what it looks like disassembled
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...1&d=1584816922
Here's the extremely small port that all fluid must travel thru to do the job
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...1&d=1584816882
I cleaned everything really good with brake cleaner (thats what Lippert suggested to me) and reassembled. You have to be very careful if you take one of these apart to not only get all the small pieces back together correctly, but you have to set the seat distance. These are normally closed valves and I used the highly technical method of blowing thru it as I was screwing it down until no air would pass thru it. I'm sure it's not precise, but it worked for me.
Here's a pic of the port still dirty after I pulled the solenoid out.
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...1&d=1584817046
I cleaned the ports out with QTips and a long pair of needlenose pliers, again not highly technical, but it worked. I did find a piece of something in the valve body that was suspect (maybe it was my issue, lets hope).
Mine does have another solenoid on the extend side, down at the bottom. I took it out too to see if it had anything going on with it, this is what it looked like
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...1&d=1584816972
I pulled all of the solenoids out of the extend side and gave them all a good cleaning, just didn't disassemble all of them. Cleaned them and put them back in.
Put it all back together and thought I'd give it a try. Darned if it didn't work (almost), that's when I figured out about setting the seat distance on a solenoid if you disassemble. The left rear would hardly go down at all, and then wouldn't retract at all. Thought about all that I had done and knew that was the only valve that I disassembled completely so I pulled it back out and had a 2nd look and saw what I had done. Screwed it together too far, repaired that and so far so good. Now all 4 jacks are going up and raising coach as they should. I set level on my controller as described in the operators manual and then tried to "auto level" the unit. That's when another potential problem reared its head. The engine died, my battery had gone dead even with engine running. Now I suspect that my engine battery may be no good (its old). I haven't had any issues starting it, I have an Amp-L-Start charger on engine battery from coach batteries so it may be keeping enough to start the engine, but when I put it thru what I've put it thru dinking with these jacks, I think I killed it. Although I didn't find any "smoking guns", I think I have it fixed. Words of warning to anyone that wants to dive into these things, make sure the jacks are retracted before you pull any of the solenoid valves out of the body, you don't want high pressure ATF blowing at you or worse. Also, on mine at least, the valve body is aluminum, the solenoids aren't tightened down with a cheater bar, be gentle with it. I'm sure if you stripped one of those ports it would get pretty deep in your pocketbook. Other takeaways from my trials, I did buy my new keypad from Lippert (it was around $1600), Lippert want$1200 for a jack, I bought a Lippert one off of someone else on the internet for $900. Lippert charged me about $120 for the solenoid coil, after I got it I did some Amazon searching and found the exact same thing for $30. Lippert Tech Support has been good to me, I would highly recommend talking to them and bouncing your thinking off of them. I talked to 2 different guys there and both were very willing to help. Thanks to everyone that responded to my call for help, I really appreciate it. If I can help someone else with my limited expertise, I would be happy to do so. Everyone, STAY HEALTHY!!
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Old 12-02-2020, 04:44 PM   #24
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I've got an update and a shameless plug for anyone that might be interested. On our next to last trip this year, our leveling system failed again. Of course they failed in the "down" position. The pump would only hum, not pumping anything. Long story short, had to disconnect the hydraulic lines at the jacks and use a jack to push them up manually and then wire them up so they wouldn't drift down on the drive home. Not a fun process. I called Lippert to see about a replacement pump assembly. Lippert wanted $2880.00 for a new pump. Thankfully, they sent me a drawing to see if it was the correct one. On that drawing I saw that the pump is actually made by Monarch Hydraulics. A little internet time and I found Mason Dynamics, Inc in Michigan. On their website, they claimed to be the #1 Monarch repair center. I called Mason Dynamics and talked to Ryan Harmon. I told him what I had, what I had done to it, etc. Ryan told me to send it to them and they would see if it was repairable, and if it wasn't they could get me a new one. I shipped it to Mason on 11/4, I got it back today 12/2, repaired. Mason Dynamics replaced the pump and 2 of the valves in my old unit for a grand total of $309.18 (this included shipping back to me). I haven't put it back on yet, but I have no reason to believe that it will be as good as new. The unit looks like a new one, they cleaned it up/painted it. I have nothing but good things to say about Mason Dynamics and Ryan Harmon that works there. I would recommend that if anyone is experiencing pump issues to give them a try before spending a ton of money on a new one. For anyone that is interested:
Mason Dynamics, Inc
5247 6 Mile Court NW
Comstock Park, MI 49321
(616)785-8534
No, I'm not being paid for this, just a happy/satisfied customer.
Merry Christmas Everyone,
Mark
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Old 12-08-2020, 01:14 AM   #25
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I did the same thing when my jacks started leaking, found the actual manufacturer and had them rebuild them for 1/4 the price of new ones.
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Old 12-27-2020, 10:02 PM   #26
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Mark - great stuff and thanks for such a great post!

I've got a 2008 Winnebago Destination 39W. One night pulling into the park jack's started acting up. Continuously tried putting up and down...next morning dug into it and realized fluid was bone dry (with jacks in up position). Added fluid, still not good. By that time got the high pitched whining vs low normal pump sound. After checking coil continuity, checking voltage to coils, bench testing valves (hooked up to car battery with alligator clips to see/hear valves actuating), replacing 4-way directional valve, finding sludge on screen of another valve removing and replacing that valve too, I'm pretty sure I torched my pump that first night when I was out of fluid - almost hope so anyway because nothing else has worked. So three weeks later I'm to the point where I need to send my pump out!! And wasted a lot of time and a little money. Even bought a hydraulic pressure gauge and put in pressure port on manifold ( not as handy as you) and don't think I screwed up but got no reading at all...thought I'd get a couple hundred psi minimum even though up to 2500 psi would be great according to Lippert tech support (they said manuals say minimum 1500-1800).

FAVOR request... Can you repost a more detailed picture of the top of your reservoir? I'd like to see the model number, part number, etc. I've found a highly referred hydraulic pump place here in Denver BUT all of my markings are worn off my Kwikee reservoir/pump. Was going to give local Hydraulic Controls a shot vs sending off to Mason Dynamics...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark View Post
I've got an update and a shameless plug for anyone that might be interested. On our next to last trip this year, our leveling system failed again. Of course they failed in the "down" position. The pump would only hum, not pumping anything. Long story short, had to disconnect the hydraulic lines at the jacks and use a jack to push them up manually and then wire them up so they wouldn't drift down on the drive home. Not a fun process. I called Lippert to see about a replacement pump assembly. Lippert wanted $2880.00 for a new pump. Thankfully, they sent me a drawing to see if it was the correct one. On that drawing I saw that the pump is actually made by Monarch Hydraulics. A little internet time and I found Mason Dynamics, Inc in Michigan. On their website, they claimed to be the #1 Monarch repair center. I called Mason Dynamics and talked to Ryan Harmon. I told him what I had, what I had done to it, etc. Ryan told me to send it to them and they would see if it was repairable, and if it wasn't they could get me a new one. I shipped it to Mason on 11/4, I got it back today 12/2, repaired. Mason Dynamics replaced the pump and 2 of the valves in my old unit for a grand total of $309.18 (this included shipping back to me). I haven't put it back on yet, but I have no reason to believe that it will be as good as new. The unit looks like a new one, they cleaned it up/painted it. I have nothing but good things to say about Mason Dynamics and Ryan Harmon that works there. I would recommend that if anyone is experiencing pump issues to give them a try before spending a ton of money on a new one. For anyone that is interested:
Mason Dynamics, Inc
5247 6 Mile Court NW
Comstock Park, MI 49321
(616)785-8534
No, I'm not being paid for this, just a happy/satisfied customer.
Merry Christmas Everyone,
Mark
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Old 06-13-2022, 07:02 AM   #27
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Leaking Cylinders - Kwikee LevelBest 3000

Unfortunately I have had the pleasure of dealing with this LevelBest system since the coach was new.

The solenoid valves had to be cleaned out very early on - flecks of aluminum debris was blocking them, stopping them from opening and closing, passing fluid. Don't know where that would come from, maybe the valve body when it was machined out in manufacturing and they never properly flushed it out.

Anyway, the system had been working well for fifteen or sixteen years and then one cylinder started leaking, and then another, and after some time all four would leak when deployed.

I tried the WD40 on the extension rod and wipe down, ran them up and down some, and got them to slow down enough to keep using them. Over time it was just a headache - and why some RV parks don't want older RV's - they leak!

I found Custom Cylinders in Kentucky - they do rebuild the cylinders - cut them apart, replace the seals, reassemble and weld them back up - about $400 each plus shipping. That was going to be my last resort. They are the original manufacturer of the cylinders made for Kwikee industries, whom was sold to Lippert, and now PowerGear.

I found Blue Devil stop leak for hydraulic systems - a liquid product to fix leaky hydraulic cylinders - and thought I would give it a try. I drained the reservoir and replaced with new ATF with the recommended amount of stop leak, and ran the levelers up and down a few times. They went from about a 90% reduction in leaking to zero after a few uses. I was pleasantly shocked to say the least - a $30 bottle of liquid magic.

After a few months we departed on our 3000 mile trip over four states, got 600 miles out on the second night, deployed the jacks to level, and the RR blew out the seal and a lot of fluid with it. I could see some of the wiper seal at the bottom sticking out. The next morning retracted the jacks, it did come back up with the others, wiped off all the leaking fluid, and didn't use them for the rest of our trip. Bouncing on the suspension is just one result, as long as you can find a level spot - I did have some wooden blocks for under the tires a couple of times. We made it home without issue.

I found a rebuilt cylinder on ebay for $700, was going to either disassemble the bad one or send it off to Kentucky. I could not get the bolt out of the cylinder leg for the dish/pad - spent most of a day with a breaker bar and an impact gun with no luck. Did get it far enough unthreaded to get a hacksaw blade in there and cut the bolt off. So now that cylinder leg is toast.

But did install the new rebuilt one and hooked everything up, drained the reservoir again and refilled with new ATF without the stop leak - why soften seals in the new cylinder, right? The cylinder assembly is pretty heavy - they're about forty pounds, and difficult to hold up to the mounting plate and get a 3/4" bolt started. Thankfully the nuts are welded to the mounting plate, you just thread them in.

The other ones are still not leaking. And the new one works perfectly like the others, we're good to go for now. I expect the other three will need to be replaced or rebuilt at some point.

Etrailer does sell replacement cylinders - both the 10K and 17K lb legs - they are $1300 each! At least shipping is included. OUCH!

If anyone comes along here with problems with these leveling jack systems, we'll have enough group knowledge here to get them going again.
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Old 06-27-2022, 08:47 AM   #28
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HWH 225 Leveling system

1998 Itasca Spirit 24 foot that I bought a month ago. I have the HWH Leveling system with the joysticks. My RV Repair Man says that the motor is burnt out. I've been in touch with HWH and they need a part number. I sent them a picture.....they need a number. I can't see a number anywhere so it must be on the bottom of the unit. Also, they don't know when they can get one to me. I don't even want the dang thing. You practically trip over it every time you try to get out of the driver's seat....and the passenger seat.

Do I even need this thing? Can it just be removed and done away with? I'm a widow now and I am trying to figure out what to do. We owned 2 other Class A's but this RV stuff is way over my head. This thing is a dinosaur! Joysticks all over it and it's the size of a small battery.

I would appreciate anyone's thoughts or suggestions.
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Old 06-27-2022, 09:24 AM   #29
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Make an assessment whether you need to be able to level your coach with hydraulic jacks, or if you can find level ground and perhaps a wooden block or two for fine tuning.

If I had to replace all four cylinders for five grand, or a $2500 pump/motor, I would be simply removing the system and do without.

As mentioned, one of my cylinders blew it's bottom seal the second day of a 14-day trip. Since it fully retracted the next morning, leaking or not, I left them all up for the rest of the trip. Used blocks a couple of times, but no problem otherwise. Made it home, fixed the one leaker with a rebuilt one on ebay for $700, problem solved.

The other pro for leveling jacks is the additional stability - otherwise you're sitting on the suspension which allows the coach to jiggle and shake when you walk through, enter or exit, etc. It didn't bother us on our trip - but it's a 20K lb chassis.

Hydraulic leveling jacks was an expensive option on our new coach back in 2004. We've enjoyed them, but not worth buying them over again. YMMV

If you want/need a replacement pump/motor get someone to help you with getting a part number off the unit.

It would not be worth it to me on a classC coach. Cut up some 2x6's or 2x8's and call it a day.
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Old 06-27-2022, 10:07 AM   #30
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Unfortunately, I have no idea or any idea where to check if I do. Thank you
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Old 06-27-2022, 11:04 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gailannr View Post
Unfortunately, I have no idea or any idea where to check if I do. Thank you
You're in luck... because we do know where to check for this: Winnebago lists a complete parts list for your motorhome here:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...GO/3wfg35u.pdf

And, on page 60-63 they list all the part numbers for the leveling system.

Now, there are two different chassis for your model year: Ford and Workhorse. They have some different parts and part numbers but both are listed. As best I can tell - and that's not a sure thing - both chassis use the same Pump. And that the Pump and reservoir are combined into one part number: 100532-01-713 EA PUMP/MOTOR/TANK - MONARCH

The "Vender Number" is (this is who makes the part) RAP90014/AP2260

When I search that AP2260 number above I find plenty of places selling that pump for $200 - $300. Including Amazon. When I search on the Winnebago number I get similar results. but the AP2260 number seems best.

You probably want to go over all of this with a service technician. Don't talk this as the absolute part info. But your service tech should be able to figure things out. By the way, I wouldn't necessarily go with an RV Repair place, though you could, no doubt. I'd find a Hydraulic Shop nearby that works on trucks, etc. There should be plenty of those around.

Here are some pages from the Parts list that I linked to above - I've circled the pump motor details:
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Old 06-27-2022, 11:42 AM   #32
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HWH pump numbers...
You might find a compatible electric motor as part of the pump assembly.
You might find a pump assembly used, they run $600 to $1000.
You might find a technician to adapt a replacement type pump assembly to what you have.
It may or may not fix the leveling jacks.
Have the control electronics been tested/diagnosed?

At least that's a place to start.
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Old 06-27-2022, 02:20 PM   #33
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Thanks, that's what I am beginning to think. I appreciate your response
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Old 06-27-2022, 02:25 PM   #34
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Thank you CJ for answering. I have already saved it to my computer but we had to replace one of the levelers on our Adventurer about two years ago. It cost us like a thousand dollars. This sweet little Class C is nice but at its age, a lot can still go wrong. I think I will go with rock and rolling once in a while. Thank you so much for your kind effort.
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Old 06-27-2022, 02:28 PM   #35
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Thanks again. I think the smartest thing to do is your above suggestion. I don't notice it rocking and rolling too much at all when just going in and out of it getting ready to take my trip with it.
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