Do some simulators just pull off?

tetranz · 07-20-2020, 07:48 PM

Hi all

I'm trying to understand the simulators on my 2017 Minnie Winnie 31K, especially the back duallys. I'm looking at installing a TPMS. More about the TPMS later but first I just want to understand the simulators.

Just for illustration, if the pattern in the center is anything to go by, it looks to be the same as this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEoYlCBuazw

Nearly every video etc I've seen talks about finding the "nuts" / covers that are real as indicated by little notches and removing them.

I've looked multiple times and mine don't have any notches. They all look the same. Does that mean the hole hubcap / simulator should pull off without removing anything first or does it mean that they all need to be pulled off?

As for the TPMS, we're newbies at this and watched a few a videos that convinced us we should have a TPMS so we've ordered a TireMinder Smart TPMS but ... I don't know, I'm beginning to wonder if we really need it. It hasn't arrived yet so it's not too late to return it. From what I've read, getting the transmitters on the duallys sound quite difficult but easier with the simulators off.

I have at least bought a hand held gauge with a dual head to handle the angles on the dually so I can check the pressures and I'll have a compressor with a flexible hose which should be usable on all tires.

Wyatt · 07-20-2020, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetranz

Hi all

I'm trying to understand the simulators on my 2017 Minnie Winnie 31K, especially the back duallys. I'm looking at installing a TPMS. More about the TPMS later but first I just want to understand the simulators.

Just for illustration, if the pattern in the center is anything to go by, it looks to be the same as this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEoYlCBuazw

Nearly every video etc I've seen talks about finding the "nuts" / covers that are real as indicated by little notches and removing them.

I've looked multiple times and mine don't have any notches. They all look the same. Does that mean the hole hubcap / simulator should pull off without removing anything first or does it mean that they all need to be pulled off?

As for the TPMS, we're newbies at this and watched a few a videos that convinced us we should have a TPMS so we've ordered a TireMinder Smart TPMS but ... I don't know, I'm beginning to wonder if we really need it. It hasn't arrived yet so it's not too late to return it. From what I've read, getting the transmitters on the duallys sound quite difficult but easier with the simulators off.

I have at least bought a hand held gauge with a dual head to handle the angles on the dually so I can check the pressures and I'll have a compressor with a flexible hose which should be usable on all tires.

They look a lot like mine. And since I just had this same very question, and got my answers from this forum, I’ll pay it forward.

There are two nuts that have a VERY SMALL dimple on them. Those are the only two that you need to remove and the hub cap will come off.

Did you get the wrench they were supposed to supply?

And finally, yes, we have the same TPMS. YOU NEED THAT!

akeagle · 07-21-2020, 12:32 AM

Those wheel covers look exactly like the ones on our 27Q and pry off the same way as full wheel covers on a regular vehicle. As far as I can tell there are no special lugs on ours and the only things holding the covers to the wheels are the spring clips that are part of the outer rims of the covers.

tetranz · 07-21-2020, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akeagle

Those wheel covers look exactly like the ones on our 27Q and pry off the same way as full wheel covers on a regular vehicle. As far as I can tell there are no special lugs on ours and the only things holding the covers to the wheels are the spring clips that are part of the outer rims of the covers.

Thanks. Our chassis is a 2016 so it sounds like the same as yours. I've looked and felt around them multiple times and they're all the same. There are no dimples.

I don't have any tools. I guess one of these will be useful. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GWFOSBY even though I won't have a use for the nut part of it.

Morich · 07-21-2020, 07:06 AM

I have a 2015 with those same covers and mine are like Wyatt shows. But I do not use a special tool. Rather than stock anything special, I already have a large set of slip joint pliers and pad the nut. I suggest just trying to turn each until you find the two which will unscrew, when not able to spot the small notch.

tetranz · 07-21-2020, 07:44 AM

I thought of giving them all a twist to see what happens but then I found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc5_IiA_6vE

I seems like they're a real pain to put back if you accidentally remove one that shouldn't be removed.

Morich · 07-21-2020, 10:03 AM

Yes, that is when we need to use a bit of "feel" for things and not just rip it out. Those that are not the right ones are crimped on and may just turn round and round while the one we want to take off have threads that unscrew.
Handy hint? Once you find the first one,the other is directly across from it so you can go slow and easy on finding the first but with more confidence on the second one.
But there is the old saying to think over. If you can't get the cover off, maybe you shouldn't! Getting the extenders on the inside dual is harder than getting the covers off!

Wyatt · 07-21-2020, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetranz

I thought of giving them all a twist to see what happens but then I found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oc5_IiA_6vE

I seems like they're a real pain to put back if you accidentally remove one that shouldn't be removed.

That’s what I did first, got a big old breaker bar and tried turning all of the nuts.

They moved, but they’re not supposed to be moved. Glad I didn’t destroy/bend the hub caps in my mistake.

Once the guys in this forum headed me in the right direction, it was easy, as Morich said, there’s just the two opposing nuts that are actually threaded.

Morich · 07-21-2020, 12:01 PM

As an alternate to trying each, how about using a small inspection mirror to take a look at the inside of each cover, using the large round openings?
Doesn't it just blow you away that the guy who screwed up taking it off, is big enough to actually put out info on his method to recover from his screwup!

Wyatt · 07-21-2020, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morich

As an alternate to trying each, how about using a small inspection mirror to take a look at the inside of each cover, using the large round openings?
Doesn't it just blow you away that the guy who screwed up taking it off, is big enough to actually put out info on his method to recover from his screwup!

Hey Morich, I’m so transparent I started a thread on my screw ups...

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...et-357241.html

Morich · 07-21-2020, 12:59 PM

I have to respect a guy that knows he screw things up once in a while. The only guys not making mistakes are the ones who are not working!

tetranz · 07-21-2020, 02:34 PM

Thanks all. I think there are three possibilities being suggested here:

- Mine has the notches but I just haven't found then. I guess that's possible but it seems unlikely unless the notches are so small I need a magnifying glass to find them.

- Mine doesn't have notches but there are two which are special which need to be unscrewed, it's just difficult to tell which ones. Has anyone seen that situation for sure?

- Mine is the same as akeagle. None of them are special. They're all fakes and the whole thing just pulls off without unscrewing anything. That seems the most likely since his chassis is a 2015 and mine is a 2016.

Morich · 07-21-2020, 07:16 PM

Looks like you have it down to a few choices as mentioned and that leaves just a few options to go from here.
One is to try prying it off around the edges and if it doesn't come at all, try not to go so far it puts a permanent bend in things. if it has two that are holding, look for the ones which don't move at all?
Two, try turning to see which might unscrew and which only turn round and round.
Three, try to get a peak in a mirror at the back side of the lugs to see which have bolts to screw on and which only set on the simulator.
Dealers choice from here?

akeagle · 07-21-2020, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tetranz

Thanks. Our chassis is a 2016 so it sounds like the same as yours. I've looked and felt around them multiple times and they're all the same. There are no dimples.

I don't have any tools. I guess one of these will be useful. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GWFOSBY even though I won't have a use for the nut part of it.

I already had a set of pry bars that I think I bought at a nearby military exchange or the bargain table at NAPA. The set is three sizes of pry bars and cost under $10 if I remember right.

The largest one was perfect for this purpose as it was 12 - 14 inches long and the "working end" is about an inch wide and slightly bent for leverage.

Added: I just looked at Amazon and saw a set that looks close to the one I have, including the orange handles, except that its actually a set of 4 and the cost is just under $20. There are several more in the $20 to $30 range that are arguably better in quality.

moabdds · 07-26-2020, 05:05 PM

If you don't have the special tool they give you for removing those two covers, a 1 1/8" socket is the same size and much more durable. My covers had been tightened so tight that it twisted the handle on my special tool. The ratchet socket works much better!

Just my dos centavos worth.

JoeC · 07-26-2020, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by akeagle

Those wheel covers look exactly like the ones on our 27Q and pry off the same way as full wheel covers on a regular vehicle. As far as I can tell there are no special lugs on ours and the only things holding the covers to the wheels are the spring clips that are part of the outer rims of the covers.

Yup! They are just expensive stainless hubcaps. Use a heavy screwdriver and pry off, working around the wheel. For dualies, I'd recommend getting a pressure balancing system (mine is Crossfire) so that both tires act as one, improve tire wear on uneven and crowned roads, monitor tire temperature and have fail-safes to keep from both going flat, except for a slow leak. A lot of truckers use them. You have one easy access port to fill both tires and only need one TPMS sensor for both tires.

I'd also recommend getting a quality small-sized air compressor for emergencies. Lord knows, they happen. Pick DC if you don't have an inverter of sufficient power or an AC one which is likely to have more output volume/pressure.

Geosman · 07-26-2020, 08:17 PM

Good discussion on the stainless rims. Those on my 2011 Vis simply pry off. I understand your frustration. Our first RV had rims with the dimple on the fake lug to designate the two that held the rim in place.
As for your TPMS. They will likely fit direct to the front tires but the rear dually wheels will likely need extenders that are designed specifically for your steel rims. I made the mistake of adding extenders to the stock rubber valve stems and found that centrifugal forces at highway speed were deflecting the valve stems and causing the tires to loose pressure. Firing up the generator and digging out my 1 HP air compressor was no treat. I learned long ago that 12 volt compressors (ever the $125 variety) will take forever to get a tire up to 60-80 psi.
Anyhow....I found metal outer mount valve stems that could fit my rims and then worked with the correct extensions to mount the stainless flex hose valve stems for the TPMS It took time and research but was well worth the effort and has worked flawlessly ever since. You tube has several videos on how to convert dual wheel valve stems from rubber to metal to avoid air loss issues when adding extensions to make checking air pressure or for TPMS installations. I was able to break the bead using a 6’ 2x4 and wood block as a fulcrum against the hitch frame. A little soapy water, a ratchet strap to compress the tread and my portable air compressor helped to reset the bead after the new stems were installed. It took no more than 30 min / tire once I perfected the process .
Wheel chocks, jack stands and a 3 ton alligator jack are almost essential to working on the dually tires. Good to have on hand if you are a tool and DIY guy.

NeilV · 07-27-2020, 07:11 AM

If yours is set up like the one in the video then the simulator nuts are the ones holding the fill extenders in place.

The ones that hold the simulators in place will sound different when you tap them at the base since there will be a lug nut under the hollow cover so they will have a more solid sound than the others that are pressed onto the wheel cover.

You may want to call Winnebago Customer Service having your VIN Number handy and ask them about which simulators/liners were installed on your coach and how to remove them.

According to the parts manual they could be Dicor FL60-59-RWC which don't appear to use nuts to hold them on however again call Winnebago to verify since there appear to have been three different types of wheel covers/liners used on the 2017 Mini 31K. They were chromed metal, stainless steel or plastic and it differs based on whether your serial number starts with 10329W1 or 10329W2.

SmilingSimon · 07-28-2020, 04:06 PM

I suspect TPMS is not useful especially for attentive rv users as you should both check tire pressures at least 1/month or so and look at tires when sitting on ground for even compression as well as after driving 30+ mins at stop, feel the temps of tires for even temps on all, a low tire will be warmer.

Morich · 07-28-2020, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmilingSimon

I suspect TPMS is not useful especially for attentive rv users as you should both check tire pressures at least 1/month or so and look at tires when sitting on ground for even compression as well as after driving 30+ mins at stop, feel the temps of tires for even temps on all, a low tire will be warmer.

This seems to totally miss the point of having a monitor to watch the tires for you!
A tire can go down in five minutes and if it happens to be a rear dual you will not notice anything going wrong until it overheats. That overheating may then make the tire blow up and take a good portion of the Rv with it.
Reading this current post, it sounds like the OP was somewhat lucky as it only took out part of the structure but mostly the mudflap.
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3868356
It could have also taken out brake lines or got hot and caught fire. Have you seen trucks going down the road hoping to blow a tire fire out as they don't want to stop and let it burn the whole truck?
I feel it well worth a few hundred dollars to protect against all of those things!