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Old 09-21-2012, 12:19 AM   #41
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Well Gang,
It appears my issue, request, problem, has been resolved. After careful consideration of all the answers and suggestions, and, experience of you great folks, I chose to purchase a "Torque Multiplier" tool. After analyzing a few of them, I chose the one with the most advantage in terms of "gearing".

It took me a few days to get it and of course, as soon as it arrived, I jumped on a chance to try it out. Well, all I can say is, WOW!! As most of you DP owners know, these lug nuts are torqued on to around 450 ft lbs. or more. So, I, as usual was skeptical. I placed the tool on the lug nut, rotated the crank handle by hand 'till the foot locked onto the next lug nut.

The tension, (in my head) was building, here's where the meat and potatoes meet. I started cranking and was met with some but, very little resistance and all of sudden, the socket was turning. The lug nut had been broken loose with around, maybe, I say MAYBE 10-15 pounds of torque on the hand crank. I was on my knees, and used ONE hand on the crank to break a 450 ft lb lug nut loose. Start to finish, from the time the slack was taken up with the tool and it came time to start the breaking the lug nut loose, it took me about, 5-10 seconds and a few cranks to see the socket start to turn.

The wife was sitting in a chair next to me during this ultimate test. She asked, "Did it work"? I turned and looked at her with an ear to ear grin. Yep, I answered, and with waaaaaaaaaaaaay more ease than I ever anticipated. I was, to say the least, incredibly happy with it, so far. The initial test was on a front wheel lug nut. Now, for the rear.

I did the same procedure for the rear. I placed the tool/socket on the nut, did a few cranks to rotate the foot to the point it contacts the next lug nut, and then, start cranking until it breaks the lug nut loose. Again, it was one handed, around 5 seconds and maybe, 5-7 cranks until I saw the socket start to turn and the nut was breaking loose.

If it wasn't for our warm weather, I'd have not broken a sweat, at all. For those of you contemplating removal of your wheels at home for whatever reason, inspection, polishing the aluminum, taking a look at the brakes, whatever, at this point, I cannot emphasize enough the power of this tool. the entire box with tool, three sockets and an extension bar is only about 12" long, about 8" wide and about 3.5" deep. It weighs about 10-12 lbs.

In the start of this thread, I was considering a 1" gun with a new, 50 or 75', 1/2" air hose, modifications to my home air compressor to be able to install the larger quick release air fittings and more. And, it was not guaranteed to do the job. This tool, has a warranty and, a money back guaranty if it does not do the trick. So far, I've proved it works as promised.

I will say though, it's advertised as a 1:78 gear ratio. Well, I played with the tool in the living room while watching TV and, as best as I can tell, it's closer to a 1:65 ratio. I did the test twice to make sure I hadn't lost count of the revolutions I had to make with the crank side to make the socket side turn one time. Both times it came out to around 65 revolutions to make the socket side turn once. Well, even though it's not as what's advertised, it did the job with amazing ease. I'm incredibly satisfied.
Scott
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Old 09-21-2012, 01:59 AM   #42
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Damn... another tool I didn't know about or need..... but now want...
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Old 09-21-2012, 02:16 AM   #43
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May have already been covered, but if you have any sort of impact wrench, especially a 1" unit, there is a big temptation to use it to tighten the nuts as well (just like the tyre shops do GRRRRR!!!!!!) and then you end up with nuts that are so overtightened, that even if they don't cause broken studs, are going to be that much harder to loosen next time.

To handle the problem of recessed nuts on the rear wheels, my MC8 came with an adjustable stand - bit like a light duty axle stand - that supports the bar out at the end so you can stand on the end of a long cheater bar without the socket skewing on the nut.
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Old 09-21-2012, 06:25 AM   #44
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Glad it is working for you. The torque multiplier is amazing on how smooth it is removing those lug nuts. As I mentioned before, the truck tire dolly is another useful tool, if you have a hard surface to wheel the tire around. So easy to move the tire up to the hub, rotate the tire to align the holes and then simply slide the tire on. Never lift a tire again. No muss no fuss for around $60 when on sale.
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:14 AM   #45
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Fireup - Scott, Thanks, for the information. What's the brand name and the vendor of the torque multiplier?
Thanks
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Old 09-23-2012, 11:36 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by 1ciderdog View Post
Fireup - Scott, Thanks, for the information. What's the brand name and the vendor of the torque multiplier?
Thanks
Hey 1ciderdog,
Well Sir, You're certainly welcome, I got it off ebay. Here's the link:

Torque Multiplier Heavy-Duty Lug Wrench (Portable - 1" Drive "No Air" Impact) | eBay

At this point in time, to me, it was the best choice, based on my intentions of use. I'm not planning on removing and installing these rather large and heavy tires and wheels EVERY DAY. It's just for a once in a while deal that allows me to cruise around, under the coach and inspect brake/drums/discs and more, without having the tire/wheel combo in the way. And, something that's important to me is, to be able to polish those wheels in and around the lug nut/axle area without having the lugs/axle in the way. I can get a machine buffer/pad in that area where it needs a more aggressive application of the compound than my fingers (which are normally worn to the bone) can apply.

Scott
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:47 PM   #47
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Stud Trick Pematex Never Seize!!

I know all the " experts" will tell you never use lubricant on a wheel stud!!!!

I have been trucking must of my life, and as a independent steel hauler, you don't call the tire man when you get a flat. In an out of mills and industrial locations, flats occur at least once a week or more.

Buy Peratex Anti-Seize Lubricant, Silver plastic container with brush top, available at your local auto parts store. Each time you break loose your wheels place a small quantity of anti-seize on each stud, coat all the threads, then wipe of the excess with a rag. Apply it on pressure areas of brake drum were the wheel seats against the drum. Also pressure plate on the outside tire, if you have them. You will see a shinny area where pressure occurs, thats where you apply anti-seize. Torque to normal values opposed first, than around the circle. Check again at 50 or no more than 100 miles, then forget it. Three of four years or what ever the bolts will come off with the same degree of force or torque that they were put on with. There is nothing worse than sitting by the side of the road and can't change a tire because you can't get it off. It also prevents stripping of threads when power tools are used. Steel bolts on steel threads put on with high torque tools literally bond together as a result of heat, corrosion, dirt, and rust, anti-seize prevents that.

Anti-seize is made of fine aluminum power in a solvent base. It stays in place and prevents bonding as a result of rust or heat. I use it to join all metal to metal surfaces if i think i might have to loosen them in the future, exhaust or manifolds, or any part where heat is involved.

CHECK YOUR WHEELS DOWN THE ROAD, AT LEAST ONCE FIRST 100 miles.

You should check the torque on your wheel lugs, no matter whether you use anti-seize or not. Whether you put them on with power tools or not!

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Old 09-23-2012, 02:29 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGypsy
I know all the " experts" will tell you never use lubricant on a wheel stud!!!!

I have been trucking must of my life, and as a independent steel hauler, you don't call the tire man when you get a flat. In an out of mills and industrial locations, flats occur at least once a week or more.

Buy Peratex Anti-Seize Lubricant, Silver plastic container with brush top, available at your local auto parts store. Each time you break loose your wheels place a small quantity of anti-seize on each stud, coat all the threads, then wipe of the excess with a rag. Apply it on pressure areas of brake drum were the wheel seats against the drum. Also pressure plate on the outside tire, if you have them. You will see a shinny area where pressure occurs, thats where you apply anti-seize. Torque to normal values opposed first, than around the circle. Check again at 50 or no more than 100 miles, then forget it. Three of four years or what ever the bolts will come off with the same degree of force or torque that they were put on with. There is nothing worse than sitting by the side of the road and can't change a tire because you can't get it off. It also prevents stripping of threads when power tools are used. Steel bolts on steel threads put on with high torque tools literally bond together as a result of heat, corrosion, dirt, and rust, anti-seize prevents that.

Anti-seize is made of fine aluminum power in a solvent base. It stays in place and prevents bonding as a result of rust or heat. I use it to join all metal to metal surfaces if i think i might have to loosen them in the future, exhaust or manifolds, or any part where heat is involved.

CHECK YOUR WHEELS DOWN THE ROAD, AT LEAST ONCE FIRST 100 miles.

You should check the torque on your wheel lugs, no matter whether you use anti-seize or not. Whether you put them on with power tools or not!

Great advice. ! Thank You:-)
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:30 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by FIRE UP

Hey 1ciderdog,
Well Sir, You're certainly welcome, I got it off ebay. Here's the link:

Torque Multiplier Heavy-Duty Lug Wrench (Portable - 1" Drive "No Air" Impact) | eBay

At this point in time, to me, it was the best choice, based on my intentions of use. I'm not planning on removing and installing these rather large and heavy tires and wheels EVERY DAY. It's just for a once in a while deal that allows me to cruise around, under the coach and inspect brake/drums/discs and more, without having the tire/wheel combo in the way. And, something that's important to me is, to be able to polish those wheels in and around the lug nut/axle area without having the lugs/axle in the way. I can get a machine buffer/pad in that area where it needs a more aggressive application of the compound than my fingers (which are normally worn to the bone) can apply.

Scott
Thank you for this information. I never heard of this type of tool, I had the same train of thought, big air gun, big compressor etc.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:00 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by GAGypsy View Post
I know all the " experts" will tell you never use lubricant on a wheel stud!!!!

I have been trucking must of my life, and as a independent steel hauler, you don't call the tire man when you get a flat. In an out of mills and industrial locations, flats occur at least once a week or more.

Buy Peratex Anti-Seize Lubricant, Silver plastic container with brush top, available at your local auto parts store. Each time you break loose your wheels place a small quantity of anti-seize on each stud, coat all the threads, then wipe of the excess with a rag. Apply it on pressure areas of brake drum were the wheel seats against the drum. Also pressure plate on the outside tire, if you have them. You will see a shinny area where pressure occurs, thats where you apply anti-seize. Torque to normal values opposed first, than around the circle. Check again at 50 or no more than 100 miles, then forget it. Three of four years or what ever the bolts will come off with the same degree of force or torque that they were put on with. There is nothing worse than sitting by the side of the road and can't change a tire because you can't get it off. It also prevents stripping of threads when power tools are used. Steel bolts on steel threads put on with high torque tools literally bond together as a result of heat, corrosion, dirt, and rust, anti-seize prevents that.

Anti-seize is made of fine aluminum power in a solvent base. It stays in place and prevents bonding as a result of rust or heat. I use it to join all metal to metal surfaces if i think i might have to loosen them in the future, exhaust or manifolds, or any part where heat is involved.

CHECK YOUR WHEELS DOWN THE ROAD, AT LEAST ONCE FIRST 100 miles.

You should check the torque on your wheel lugs, no matter whether you use anti-seize or not. Whether you put them on with power tools or not!

I've got a can of Nickel Graphite just for this purpose..
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:03 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGypsy View Post
I know all the " experts" will tell you never use lubricant on a wheel stud!!!!

I have been trucking must of my life, and as a independent steel hauler, you don't call the tire man when you get a flat. In an out of mills and industrial locations, flats occur at least once a week or more.

Buy Peratex Anti-Seize Lubricant, Silver plastic container with brush top, available at your local auto parts store. Each time you break loose your wheels place a small quantity of anti-seize on each stud, coat all the threads, then wipe of the excess with a rag. Apply it on pressure areas of brake drum were the wheel seats against the drum. Also pressure plate on the outside tire, if you have them. You will see a shinny area where pressure occurs, thats where you apply anti-seize. Torque to normal values opposed first, than around the circle. Check again at 50 or no more than 100 miles, then forget it. Three of four years or what ever the bolts will come off with the same degree of force or torque that they were put on with. There is nothing worse than sitting by the side of the road and can't change a tire because you can't get it off. It also prevents stripping of threads when power tools are used. Steel bolts on steel threads put on with high torque tools literally bond together as a result of heat, corrosion, dirt, and rust, anti-seize prevents that.

Anti-seize is made of fine aluminum power in a solvent base. It stays in place and prevents bonding as a result of rust or heat. I use it to join all metal to metal surfaces if i think i might have to loosen them in the future, exhaust or manifolds, or any part where heat is involved.

CHECK YOUR WHEELS DOWN THE ROAD, AT LEAST ONCE FIRST 100 miles.

You should check the torque on your wheel lugs, no matter whether you use anti-seize or not. Whether you put them on with power tools or not!

GAGypsy,
Yes Sir, I've been using a dab of grease or, anti-seize for many years and have yet to loose a wheel/tire going down the road. Since we purchased this rig, just over 18 months ago, I've had the front wheels off for maintenance and inspection but, have not done the rears due to the fact that the deepness of the wheels and, the awkwardness of the torque on the long breaker bar, extension and such, hindered me from doing them.

Well, I just finished removing both tires and wheels on the right (passenger) side and, the studs already had a lubricant on them. Now, the previous owner had new tires installed around, November of 2010 by Les Schwab tires. Now
I know for a fact that he never had the tires and wheels off after he had the tire company put new tires on and, as stated, I've not had the rears off so, it leads me to believe that the studs were lubed by Les Schwab during the tire installation.

Now, as for the use of the new TOY/TOOL, it worked absolutely flawless. It took me a grand total of about 11 minutes to have all 10 lug nuts off. And that was not even breaking a sweat. This tool is cool! My outside TV is in the compartment adjacent to the rear duals, so, I had "NCIS" on and sat there and removed all the lugs without strain. And, I'm happy to report, my drum on that side is in great condition, aside from a few "hot spots" here and there and, the brake shoes are as thick as can be. There's 47K on it right now so, I'd bet easily that it will go another 47K without worry. Now, to put that side all back together. Thanks for the tip on the anti-seize, I do have a container of both the nickle based blend and the copper based. I will use a tad on each stud and contact surface during re-assembly.
Scott
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:53 PM   #52
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Gang,
I was going to post a pic or two of what I found but forgot to. Here's what I found while the wheel and drum is off. You'll see the thickness of the brake pads. They are wore a tad more on the ends, due to the actuation of the "S"cam and how the brakes are applied. The centers of the brakes are like new. As stated, this rig, and I'm assuming the brakes too, have 47K on it at this time.

The drum looked good to but, it did have a few hot spots in it at various intervals but, they were/are no big deal. So, it all went back together. Now, I don't know how many of you have done this kind of work before but, just for grins, while I had the tires and drum off, I weighed both the inner STEEL wheel and tire and, the outer ALUMINUM tire and wheel. Before reading any farther, can any of you possibly guess the weight difference between the two?

Well, I'll tell you. The Steel wheel/tire combo came in at 163.5 lbs. The Aluminum tire/wheel combo came in at 144.4. They both had the valve stems on them and, at this point I can't recall the amount of weights that were on either one but, they were there.

Now, the drum is also pretty darn heavy. I did not weigh it but, in taking it off, it's heavy, to say the least. So, to re-install it, I came up with the brilliant idea of using my motorcycle jack for that. Wow, was that slick or what? That jack cradled that drum just right and, I pumped a few times and rolled it right onto the wheel studs.

Then, as another poster suggested, I used my tire/wheel dolly to manipulate the tires and wheels onto the axle and orient them to the studs without any work at all. So, the heavy part of the work on this project was all done with mechanical advantages, by far, the better way to go.

And, as you can see in the pic, I was able to do a stand up job on the center section of the wheel with my 3/8" Dewalt drill and round, 2" wool polishing pad and some rouge on the wheel. I then hit the entire wheel with some "Mothers" mag polish. I keep them nice but, not that nice. I've got a half dozen aluminum polishes and that Mothers, so far, does close to the best I've seen and I've been polishing aluminum since the early 70s. Anyway, take a look and see what you think.

That Torque Multiplier did a fantastic job. I'd recommend it in a heartbeat.
Scott
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:59 PM   #53
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That looks like a lot of work but also looks worth the effort.
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Old 09-24-2012, 11:52 PM   #54
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That looks like a lot of work but also looks worth the effort.
Bob
Bob,
Yes Sir, it is a bit of work. But, I'm retired, can and do, take my time. And, along with the use of tools like the Torque multiplier, the tire/wheel dolly (not pictured) and, the motorcycle hack, take the "heavy" part of this kind of job almost out of the equasion, completely. I spun the nuts off with a 3/8" cordless drill with adapters all the way up to a 3/4" that I put the 33 mm socket on. So, once the lugs were broke of there torqued spec, they spun right off. And, in reverse, I spun all ten of them all the way on 'till the drill quit. Then, I put the Torque Multiplier for a few turns on each one and finally my breaker bar.

The whole process, start to finish, took me a few hours. But, I enjoyed what I was doing and, had "NCIS" with Gibbs, Denoso, Abby and the rest of the gang there to keep me company while I cruised on through the job. This kind of work is not technical, just a bit labor intensive. But, you take your time, make sure you're safe, take all precautions necessary, don't go beyond your limits and, enjoy what you're doing.

If I do one wheel and tire removal a week, no big deal. I might tackle the drivers side tomorrow, today was my birthday so I did, NOTHING!
Scott
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Old 09-25-2012, 06:52 AM   #55
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I remember the first time I removed the brake drum. As it was falling toward my foot I remember saying sh.... that thing is sure heavy!

Just a thought, don't forget to pay attention to the S-Cam once you have the drum removed. If you remove all of the accumulated dust it could prevent future problems. Dust builds up on the cam, and as the shoes wear down, the cam has to rotate a bit further and ride over the dust sometimes causing a loud POP noise. I used a Dremel tool to clean mine.

Your wheels sure look good Scott. Feels good doesn't it. BTW, Happy Birthday!
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Old 09-25-2012, 07:30 AM   #56
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Bob,
Yes Sir, it is a bit of work. But, I'm retired, can and do, take my time. And, along with the use of tools like the Torque multiplier, the tire/wheel dolly (not pictured) and, the motorcycle hack, take the "heavy" part of this kind of job almost out of the equasion, completely. I spun the nuts off with a 3/8" cordless drill with adapters all the way up to a 3/4" that I put the 33 mm socket on. So, once the lugs were broke of there torqued spec, they spun right off. And, in reverse, I spun all ten of them all the way on 'till the drill quit. Then, I put the Torque Multiplier for a few turns on each one and finally my breaker bar.

The whole process, start to finish, took me a few hours. But, I enjoyed what I was doing and, had "NCIS" with Gibbs, Denoso, Abby and the rest of the gang there to keep me company while I cruised on through the job. This kind of work is not technical, just a bit labor intensive. But, you take your time, make sure you're safe, take all precautions necessary, don't go beyond your limits and, enjoy what you're doing.

If I do one wheel and tire removal a week, no big deal. I might tackle the drivers side tomorrow, today was my birthday so I did, NOTHING!
Scott
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Old 09-25-2012, 08:30 AM   #57
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Hey Scott...that's beautiful! Want to do mine...? LOL
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:45 AM   #58
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Hey Scott...that's beautiful! Want to do mine...? LOL
Hey good morning stvcharfe,
Reno's not that far, cruise on down and I'll get you started. The wheels were in fair condition when we picked up the coach in Sparks about 18 months ago so, to get them to the condition you see them, it was work, but not all that bad. As I've stated many times before, I have the time, and, the work area and, the enjoyment of doing things like that.

Polishing those wheels, with them on the ground, is somewhat a pain in the a. Jacking it up so they'll spin, so you can get your arms and hands into ergonomically correct positions (don't have to stand on your head) is better. But, removing the wheels for this chore, while a pain to get them off and re-install them, is the best way to put whatever kind of effort you need to do, to get them to this kind of looks.

I enjoy it. And what's a great help is, they're complete covered with wheel covers when the coach is not rolling down the road. So the sun, wheather, cat pee, and more, doesn't have a chance to damage my work. Thanks for the nice comment.
Scott
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:34 PM   #59
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Fire up, Just thought I'd let you know I did get a torque multiplier off EBAY for the RV lug nuts. I think it is a different model than you bought but it works very well. Thanks for all the information. It'll work on the RV as well as my tractor & other equipment I have around the property. Now if I can get my wife to polish the wheels if I take them off I'll be a real winner!
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Old 10-29-2012, 09:46 PM   #60
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1ciderdog,
Well Sir, they (ebay) had a few different models and some were less "low geared" than the one I purchased so, I went after the one with the lowest gears or, I should say, "gear ratio". While it is represented in the ad on ebay as 1:78 gear ratio, it's actually around 1:65.

I know 'cause I counted the revolutions it took for one complete revolution of the socket, twice. But, in any case, it sure makes loosening those tight lug nuts an easy job. And, if you were to use it to tighten them, you can easily "over tighten" them. Yep, I did a test and I went way over the 450 ft. lbs. that's required for them. I know because I have a 150-600 ft. lb. torque wrench and it definitely was over torqued.

So, I think you'll be real happy with it.
Scott
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