Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
 


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-23-2021, 05:45 PM   #1
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Wanting to buy, researching to see if achieving a TW < 650lb loaded (no water) is achievable
Posts: 43
Tongue Weight specs for my truck

I want to upprade to a 2015 Minnie 2101 or a 2016 Micro Minnie 2106 and trying to determine if the weight specs for my truck will work. Its not the towing capacity but the tongue weight that is the factor.

Thanks for the feedback, Truck numbers are from the door Jamb.

I have a 2012 Dutchman 177QBSL the factory reported tongue weight is 266lb, and a max GVW of 4700lbs which I assume included two empty 5 gal propane tanks, no battery and manual jack.

I added two full 7 gal (30lb) tanks, dual 6 volt Batteries and an Electric Tongue Jack. I was at 727 lbs static when putting the jack on the scale and the rest of the trailer off the scale.

Add me, the wife and the dog we are just over 1000lbs. That means the truck has to carry no gear in the box to stay under Payload of 1000 lbs.

Sticker GVWR 6052 lbs


I have a canopy on the truck and truck weighs as follows (Weighed the truck last summer with Canopy, hitch, myself, wife and spaniel, box empty);

Axle 1 2756 lbs 2910 lbs sticker Max
Axle 2 2315 lbs 3285 lbs sticker Max

981 lbs Cargo/tongue to reach trucks GVWR Limit
970 lbs Cargo/tongue to reach rear axle GAWR Limit

Hooked on trailer with equalizer bars, batteries, jack and full propane and went through scale again.

Axle 1 2579 lbs 2910 lbs Sticker Max
Axle 2 3042 lbs 3285 lbs Sticker Max
Axle 3 4145 lbs 4700 lbs GCWR of Dutchman Trailer

Axle Total 9766 lbs GCWR for Truck 11,270

From above I could put 555 lbs in the trailer right over the axles to reach the trailer GVWR and 970 lbs (minus tongue weight) in box of truck If I was to place any of the 555 lbs cargo in front of the trailer axles that would have to be deducted from the 970 lbs allowed in the truck.


The real issue here was the Dutchman was to have a tongue weight of 266 lbs from factory (would include two empty 5 gal tanks (34 lbs) and a crank Jack (13 lbs, no battery).

I added two Crown Deep Cycle Batteries weigh 130lbs, upgraded to two full 7 gal propane tanks additional weight 80 lbs, upgraded to a Husky Brute Electric Jack additional weight 16 lbs. Upgraded mattress to a 7" deluxe (weight difference unknown). Based of the factory weight of 266 lbs plus 130 + 80 + 16 + mattress difference = 492 lbs.

Why did I get 727 lbs on the scale, mattress sure isn't 235 lbs heavier than the factory mattress. All tanks were empty and trailer totally empty.

Not sure what I'm missing here.


Bottom line I would love to hear what others are getting for tongue weight on their pre 2016 Minnie 2101 or 2016 Micro Minnie on the road with cargo, batteries and propane.


This is my second option for a trailer upgrade from the 2016 Micro Minnie 2106 or 2015 Minnie 2101.

2015 - 2016 Keystone Passport 199ML
- UVW 134 - 269 lbs lighter,
- Factory Tongue Weight 25 - 125 lbs lighter,
- GVW 1800 - 2260 lbs less capacity.

Based on my Dutchman's GVW weights (loaded) which I never really exceeded will fall under the the Passport and Winnebago GVW maximums.

Hoping all numbers will work within my Tacoma's specs.

Thanks for the help here, there is lots to take in.
Bcborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2021, 07:18 PM   #2
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 21
Hi BC, I'm in a similar situation where I am trying to get my tongue weight down. One option I will do is to swap out my 2 6v batteries for a lithium. I will be getting only one and it will be installed in the front pass through, not on the tongue. I estimate the two batteries on the tongue weigh around 130 pounds. One lithium is about 36 lbs. I too was surprised when I towed the trailer home with the bare minimum in the front pass through, the TW was 800 lbs! The trailer weighed in at 5160.
Jokaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2021, 07:41 PM   #3
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Wanting to buy, researching to see if achieving a TW < 650lb loaded (no water) is achievable
Posts: 43
Model

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokaj View Post
Hi BC, I'm in a similar situation where I am trying to get my tongue weight down. One option I will do is to swap out my 2 6v batteries for a lithium. I will be getting only one and it will be installed in the front pass through, not on the tongue. I estimate the two batteries on the tongue weigh around 130 pounds. One lithium is about 36 lbs. I too was surprised when I towed the trailer home with the bare minimum in the front pass through, the TW was 800 lbs! The trailer weighed in at 5160.
Please what model and year are you referring?
Bcborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2021, 10:20 PM   #4
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 21
2022 Micro Minnie 2225RL.
Jokaj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2021, 12:42 PM   #5
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Wanting to buy, researching to see if achieving a TW < 650lb loaded (no water) is achievable
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jokaj View Post
2022 Micro Minnie 2225RL.
Thanks, That's not too far off factory specs

Dry weight 4540
Hitch Weight 560

620lbs of cargo (5160 - 4540)

240lbs extra tongue weight (800 - 560)

- 130lbs batteries
- 40lbs propane liquid (assume 2x 20lbs)
- 93 lbs items in front of axles and in pass thru (620 x 10%)
Bcborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2021, 09:28 PM   #6
Winnebago Owner
 
Fred 2106DS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: South Central, Pennsylvania
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcborn View Post
Bottom line I would love to hear what others are getting for tongue weight on their pre 2016 Minnie 2101 or 2016 Micro Minnie on the road with cargo, batteries and propane.
Below is a weight slip with tongue weight that is from when our setup was a 2011 Tacoma TRD OR and our 2016 2106DS. The trailer weight was with an empty fresh water tank, two full 20# propane tanks and one Battle Born 100AH battery in the pass through. I use a Sherline trailer tongue weight scale to measure my tongue weights.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dx.jpg
Views:	19
Size:	200.0 KB
ID:	181335  
__________________
2016 Winnebago Micro Minnie 2106DS, 200Ah BB, 400w rooftop solar, Renogy 2000w inverter
2020 Tundra SR5 DLCB TRD Off Road, 5.7L V8 w/6.5' bed & 38 gal. tank
Blue Ox Sway Pro w/750# bars, wired RVS rear view camera, Renogy 20A DC/DC charger
Fred 2106DS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 07:49 AM   #7
Winnebago Owner
 
Marine359's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 725
I don’t have a Sherline, and I probably should get one. My tongue weight, derived from weighing all contents of truck bed, then CAT scaling truck and trailer is about 575 lbs. it may be close to 600 lbs now because After Scaling, I moved all heavier items from truck bed to pass thru. Needed to do that to get Rear GAWR under limit. I always leave with full fresh + 7gal more under dinette.
__________________
Jim. 2021b Micro Minnie 2108DS, 110w foldable solar
2021 GMC Canyon Denali 3.6L Gas 4x4, Husky C-Line
170AH LiFePo4, Xantrex XC2000, Champion 2500w df
Marine359 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 12:31 PM   #8
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Wanting to buy, researching to see if achieving a TW < 650lb loaded (no water) is achievable
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred 2106DS View Post
Below is a weight slip with tongue weight that is from when our setup was a 2011 Tacoma TRD OR and our 2016 2106DS. The trailer weight was with an empty fresh water tank, two full 20# propane tanks and one Battle Born 100AH battery in the pass through. I use a Sherline trailer tongue weight scale to measure my tongue weights.
This was a great example as was the earlier one, thanks

I assume your 2016 2106DS was loaded with all essentials typically included when out camping and the passthrou utilized.

Thanks, That's not too far off factory specs

Trailer Dry weight 3705lbs
Factory Hitch Weight 320lbs
Scaled Trailer Axle Weight 4340lbs
Scaled Hitch Weight 600lbs

635lbs of cargo (4340 - 3705)

280lbs extra tongue weight (600 - 320)

- 31lbs Lithium battery
- 40lbs propane liquid (assume 2x 20lbs)
- 205 lbs items in front of axles and in pass thru (620 x 33%)

Could you have seen yourself cutting some of that extra 205lbs extra tongue to transfer tongue load to the trailer axles?
Bcborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 08:49 PM   #9
Winnebago Owner
 
Fred 2106DS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: South Central, Pennsylvania
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcborn View Post
This was a great example as was the earlier one, thanks

I assume your 2016 2106DS was loaded with all essentials typically included when out camping and the passthrou utilized.

Thanks, That's not too far off factory specs

Trailer Dry weight 3705lbs
Factory Hitch Weight 320lbs
Scaled Trailer Axle Weight 4340lbs
Scaled Hitch Weight 600lbs

635lbs of cargo (4340 - 3705)

280lbs extra tongue weight (600 - 320)

- 31lbs Lithium battery
- 40lbs propane liquid (assume 2x 20lbs)
- 205 lbs items in front of axles and in pass thru (620 x 33%)

Could you have seen yourself cutting some of that extra 205lbs extra tongue to transfer tongue load to the trailer axles?
Yes, that weigh was on the way out of town to go camping. We have a CAT scale about 5 miles from home.

Yes, I could have moved some stuff rearward inside the camper to lessen the tongue weight, though about the best I could do was 550# at the tongue without going to crazy. I was happy with a tongue weight between 550# and 600#.
__________________
2016 Winnebago Micro Minnie 2106DS, 200Ah BB, 400w rooftop solar, Renogy 2000w inverter
2020 Tundra SR5 DLCB TRD Off Road, 5.7L V8 w/6.5' bed & 38 gal. tank
Blue Ox Sway Pro w/750# bars, wired RVS rear view camera, Renogy 20A DC/DC charger
Fred 2106DS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2021, 09:13 PM   #10
Winnebago Owner
 
Fred 2106DS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: South Central, Pennsylvania
Posts: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marine359 View Post
I donít have a Sherline, and I probably should get one. My tongue weight, derived from weighing all contents of truck bed, then CAT scaling truck and trailer is about 575 lbs. it may be close to 600 lbs now because After Scaling, I moved all heavier items from truck bed to pass thru. Needed to do that to get Rear GAWR under limit. I always leave with full fresh + 7gal more under dinette.
Jim, I bought the Sherline 1000# scale. The two reasons I picked it verse their 2000# scale is it has scale markings every 20# verse every 50# on the 2000# scale. Also, I read somewhere that a scale's accuracy is best at about 50% of the scale rating. Not sure how true that statement is but it sounded reasonable to me.
__________________
2016 Winnebago Micro Minnie 2106DS, 200Ah BB, 400w rooftop solar, Renogy 2000w inverter
2020 Tundra SR5 DLCB TRD Off Road, 5.7L V8 w/6.5' bed & 38 gal. tank
Blue Ox Sway Pro w/750# bars, wired RVS rear view camera, Renogy 20A DC/DC charger
Fred 2106DS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2021, 06:15 AM   #11
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 77
Just an FYI, I couldn't follow in detail all the calculations, but keep in mind that a WD hitch will actually **** tongue weight back off the truck and push it onto the trailer's axles. So keep that in mind both for your GAWR calcs, and also how you are doing your math if you are hooking/unhooking on the scales.

Though, you also have to keep in mind the WD hitch itself weighs about 100lbs.

I'm also trying to reduce my TW. I don't have lead batteries, I went lithium, unfortunately, I put 510Ah of lithium in the passthrough, which still weighs about 120lbs. Though only 2/3 of that is on the tongue. I wish I had put them under the dinette seats.

I'm thinking of redoing the back bumper with a cargo box on the back.
R_Lefebvre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2021, 06:43 AM   #12
Winnebago Owner
 
Marine359's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre View Post
I'm thinking of redoing the back bumper with a cargo box on the back.
Careful, MM bumper rated at only 75lbs. A good chunk of that used by the spare tire. I figured maybe 35 lbs to spare, so I mounted my 27gal Thetford tote on the bumper. It weighs about 30lbs.
__________________
Jim. 2021b Micro Minnie 2108DS, 110w foldable solar
2021 GMC Canyon Denali 3.6L Gas 4x4, Husky C-Line
170AH LiFePo4, Xantrex XC2000, Champion 2500w df
Marine359 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2021, 06:52 AM   #13
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 77
Understood. But I'm talking about actually removing the factory bumper and brackets, and installing something more substantial.
R_Lefebvre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2021, 06:58 AM   #14
Winnebago Owner
 
Marine359's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2020
Location: Asheville, NC
Posts: 725
Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre View Post
Understood. But I'm talking about actually removing the factory bumper and brackets, and installing something more substantial.
Yeah, good move. I should do that.
__________________
Jim. 2021b Micro Minnie 2108DS, 110w foldable solar
2021 GMC Canyon Denali 3.6L Gas 4x4, Husky C-Line
170AH LiFePo4, Xantrex XC2000, Champion 2500w df
Marine359 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2021, 12:36 PM   #15
Winnebago Camper
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Wanting to buy, researching to see if achieving a TW < 650lb loaded (no water) is achievable
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marine359 View Post
Careful, MM bumper rated at only 75lbs. A good chunk of that used by the spare tire. I figured maybe 35 lbs to spare, so I mounted my 27gal Thetford tote on the bumper. It weighs about 30lbs.
Curt Makes a good design to install a hitch to trailers.

https://rvpartshop.ca/product/receiv...es-13703.html?
Bcborn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2021, 01:32 AM   #16
Winnebago Owner
 
RocknRoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bcborn View Post
Curt Makes a good design to install a hitch to trailers.

https://rvpartshop.ca/product/receiv...es-13703.html?
Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre View Post
Understood. But I'm talking about actually removing the factory bumper and brackets, and installing something more substantial.
I wouldn't remove the bumper. Although minimal, it's there to provide a level of protection from rear impact. Besides, it's a nice place to store the extra sewer tube

The previous owner of my MM had a hitch installed and I was pretty happy until I actually tried it during a road test. Unfortunately adding any kind of real weight to the rear (250 lbs.+ including the carrier) increased sway and made it somewhat unstable so I don't use it. In fact, I was thinking of removing it to reduce weight.

I removed additional weight from the rear by relocating the spare to the tongue:
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ue-360779.html

I suppose that could be somewhat rectified if I installed a WD hitch, but I'm safely carrying all the gear I need and personally, an anti-sway bar works well for me.

It's been discussed many times that keeping as much weight above or just forward of the axles (+12% TW) has proven to be an optimal WD condition. Of course, YMMV.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20211207_120156259_HDR.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	182.7 KB
ID:	181442  
__________________
2020b Micro Minnie 2108TB / 2001 F-150 Super Crew 4X4
RocknRoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2021, 07:06 AM   #17
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocknRoll View Post
I wouldn't remove the bumper. Although minimal, it's there to provide a level of protection from rear impact. Besides, it's a nice place to store the extra sewer tube
I'm not suggesting to simply remove the bumper. I'm talking about removing the OEM bumper, and installing something with exactly the same dimensions, but more wall thickness. Not extreme, but 1/4" brackets and 1/8" wall thickness tube would be much stronger. The goal is to be able to mount a cargo box securely on the rear bumper.

The problem is that I'm already at 660lbs TW when the trailer is empty. Just due to all the off-grid electrical equipment I installed in the pass-through. This already requires me to use a WDH, and even then, I can't get the rear to stop squatting. I did just install heavier rear springs which will help. But a stiff rear suspension does not stop the TW from lifting the front axle. Only a WDH can do that.

But still, I can't really put much in the passthrough at all without increasing the weight even more. In particular, I want a Camp Chef 60X grill, which will increase the TW even more. I'd like to put this in a box on the back bumper instead.

I need to get to the point where I _can_ tow it without a WDH, because you cannot use a WDH for any kind of off-highway travel. Articulation between the truck and trailer can create extremely high forces in the WDH system.

Yes, I'm aware of the TW guidance, I'm quite experienced in this area. The correct TW cannot be reduced to such a simple figure such as 12%. There are a huge number of variables in play. On that point, nothing is more important than a WDH, my truck would be way more stable with 10% TW on a WDH than yours would be with 15% without a WHD. But other things, such as the trailer length, moment of inertia of the trailer, dual vs. single trailer axles, truck wheelbase, tire sidewall stiffness, spring and shock stiffness, etc. all play a huge role.

12% is just a guideline that simplifies it to the point that your average person can kinda get it close to correct.
R_Lefebvre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2021, 07:31 AM   #18
Winnebago Owner
 
Fred 2106DS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: South Central, Pennsylvania
Posts: 178
I added a Curt adjustable trailer hitch receiver to carry the 75 lb. weight of our double recumbent trike carrier. I mounted the hitch assembly by both bolting it through the bottom of the camper frame and also having side plates welded between the hitch assembly and camper frame. I also had a plate welded to the receiver tongue and rear camper frame to minimize receiver flex. These additional plates should allow us to safely carry our two recumbent etrikes on the carrier if needed in an emergency. Total weight including carrier would be 175 Ė 200 lbs. Currently we carry the etrikes inside the camper on a custom rack that sets on the slide platform.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20210512_123820.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	175.6 KB
ID:	181443   Click image for larger version

Name:	20210512_123241.jpg
Views:	8
Size:	218.5 KB
ID:	181444  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210512_123352.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	225.1 KB
ID:	181445   Click image for larger version

Name:	20210512_135126.jpg
Views:	9
Size:	255.4 KB
ID:	181446  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20210323_113640.jpg
Views:	14
Size:	213.4 KB
ID:	181447  
__________________
2016 Winnebago Micro Minnie 2106DS, 200Ah BB, 400w rooftop solar, Renogy 2000w inverter
2020 Tundra SR5 DLCB TRD Off Road, 5.7L V8 w/6.5' bed & 38 gal. tank
Blue Ox Sway Pro w/750# bars, wired RVS rear view camera, Renogy 20A DC/DC charger
Fred 2106DS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2021, 08:59 AM   #19
Winnebago Owner
 
RocknRoll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 174
Quote:
Originally Posted by R_Lefebvre View Post

12% is just a guideline that simplifies it to the point that your average person can kinda get it close to correct.
My mistake, I should have stated 10-15% or ~12%.
__________________
2020b Micro Minnie 2108TB / 2001 F-150 Super Crew 4X4
RocknRoll is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2021, 04:09 PM   #20
Winnebago Owner
 
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by RocknRoll View Post
My mistake, I should have stated 10-15% or ~12%.
Right, but even the 10-15% is not absolute. I have a trailer with *no* tongue weight. And it's not unstable at all.

Conversely, too much TW can lift the front wheels right off the ground.
R_Lefebvre is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
weight


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Tongue Weight Scales? Trout One Towing, Hitching and Vehicles 13 01-25-2021 06:47 PM
Handling problems, heavy tongue weight Edwin764 Towing, Hitching and Vehicles 4 02-07-2019 11:44 AM
Anyone scale their 27bhss? Looking for real-world tongue weight buckslivin Towing, Hitching and Vehicles 0 10-10-2018 08:43 AM
Tongue weight question Marsha52 Towing, Hitching and Vehicles 16 04-15-2018 11:35 AM
Hitch tongue weight jrnutpaul Towing, Hitching and Vehicles 14 03-09-2009 03:33 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Winnebago Industries or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
×