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Old 10-21-2021, 11:59 AM   #1
Winnie-Wise
 
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Smile Tongue Weight

Does anyone have an answer as to why the tongue weight on the pre2013 - 2016 Minnie 2101 is 100 lbs heavier than the tongue weight on the 2016+ Micro Minnie 2106

Besides the Minnie being 7' - 6" wide and the Micro Minnie being 7' - 0" wide they are identical.

Is it possible the 6" extra width from axle to tongue adds this 100 lbs extra tongue weight?

Thanks,
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Old 10-21-2021, 01:24 PM   #2
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If the distance from the axel to the tongue is greater than the distance from the axel to the back bumper, then all else being equal, the tongue weight would increase. However, 100 lbs isn't much and adding any cargo behind the axel will decrease it.
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Old 10-21-2021, 01:35 PM   #3
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I’m no expert, but it seems to me that the tongue weight on an empty Trailer would vary from other trailers depending on the weight of the trailer, how that weight sits on the fulcrum created by the tires/axel(s) and how the weight of the trailer is distributed accounting for the non moveable weight like the structure of the box and things like cabinets appliances dinettes couches toilets etc. Once the empty tongue weight is established you then need to get the tongue weight of the loaded trailer with the things you add to the weight like propane tanks, batteries, items stored and placed by you into and on the trailer. I see that some people contend that manufacturers’ empty tongue weights are not reliable. On my 2021 micro Minnie 2100bh, I found the Winnebago tongue weight of 430lbs to be accurate at least according to my sherline scale.

My answer to your question is that the trailers you are comparing have a different weight and/or that weight may be distributed differently over the axel(s). Or that one may include things not included in the other like propane and batteries.
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Old 10-21-2021, 01:45 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Mtn Charlie View Post
If the distance from the axel to the tongue is greater than the distance from the axel to the back bumper, then all else being equal, the tongue weight would increase. However, 100 lbs isn't much and adding any cargo behind the axel will decrease it.
I load the generator and heavy stuff either at the rear of my current trailer to reduce payload on truck.

I have a New Tacoma with a Towing Capacity of 6400 lbs GVW and the factory rated payload (tongue weight, gear ahead of trailer axles and gear in truck plus passengers is 1000lbs).

Doesn't make for much gear in front of trailer axles with a factory tongue weight of 460 lbs.
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Old 10-21-2021, 02:00 PM   #5
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Loading too much weight behind the trailer's axel can be dangerous. Ideally, you would want equal weights front and back. Negative tongue weight tends to lift the rear axel of the tow vehicle causing steering instability and loss of rear wheel traction.
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Old 10-21-2021, 02:42 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by FlyingV View Post
I’m no expert, but it seems to me that the tongue weight on an empty Trailer would vary from other trailers depending on the weight of the trailer, how that weight sits on the fulcrum created by the tires/axel(s) and how the weight of the trailer is distributed accounting for the non moveable weight like the structure of the box and things like cabinets appliances dinettes couches toilets etc. Once the empty tongue weight is established you then need to get the tongue weight of the loaded trailer with the things you add to the weight like propane tanks, batteries, items stored and placed by you into and on the trailer. I see that some people contend that manufacturers’ empty tongue weights are not reliable. On my 2021 micro Minnie 2100bh, I found the Winnebago tongue weight of 430lbs to be accurate at least according to my sherline scale.

My answer to your question is that the trailers you are comparing have a different weight and/or that weight may be distributed differently over the axel(s). Or that one may include things not included in the other like propane and batteries.
Winnebago says the 2013 - 2015 Minnie 2101DS has a tongue weight of 460 lbs.

My current Dutchman Kodiak 177QBSL is said to have a tongue weight of 266lbs. With two 30 lb propane tanks, Dual 6 Volt Golf Cart Batteries and Electric Tongue and no cargo, it's closer to 600lbs.
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Old 10-21-2021, 03:16 PM   #7
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Loading too much weight behind the trailer's axel can be dangerous. Ideally, you would want equal weights front and back. Negative tongue weight tends to lift the rear axel of the tow vehicle causing steering instability and loss of rear wheel traction.
Agree, Winnebago's stated tongue weight of 460 is about 12% of the UVW (DS - 3780/FBS - 3840). Placing 50% of my gear rearward of the axles and 50% of my gear forward of the axles would that still maintain the 12% approximately, correct.

I understand tongue weight should be no less than 10% of the total Trailer weight loaded.

Thanks,
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Old 10-25-2021, 02:21 PM   #8
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I load the generator and heavy stuff either at the rear of my current trailer to reduce payload on truck.

I have a New Tacoma with a Towing Capacity of 6400 lbs GVW and the factory rated payload (tongue weight, gear ahead of trailer axles and gear in truck plus passengers is 1000lbs).

Doesn't make for much gear in front of trailer axles with a factory tongue weight of 460 lbs.
You should double check your GVWR minus your curb weight. That is your true payload weight. I know with my Jeep it says I have a payload weight of 1050. But that doesn't actually include my tongue weight limit of 720. I know this because I have a GVWR of 6800 but my curb weight is ~5004.
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Old 10-25-2021, 03:02 PM   #9
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You should double check your GVWR minus your curb weight. That is your true payload weight. I know with my Jeep it says I have a payload weight of 1050. But that doesn't actually include my tongue weight limit of 720. I know this because I have a GVWR of 6800 but my curb weight is ~5004.
Dave, from what I'm reading here, I'm confused. Tongue weight is part of payload weight

You say your Jeep has a Payload weight of 1050 lbs, If your tongue limit is 720 and you put 720 on it you have 330 lb left for passengers and cargo

GVWR 6800 - Curb 5004 = 1796 Payload
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Old 10-25-2021, 03:42 PM   #10
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Dave, from what I'm reading here, I'm confused. Tongue weight is part of payload weight

You say your Jeep has a Payload weight of 1050 lbs, If your tongue limit is 720 and you put 720 on it you have 330 lb left for passengers and cargo

GVWR 6800 - Curb 5004 = 1796 Payload
Exactly. The payload on my Jeep does not include the tongue limit. I think they tried to simplify payload weights by removing tongue weight from the rated payload capacity.

https://www.firestonecompleteautocar...-what-to-know/
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Old 10-25-2021, 04:14 PM   #11
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I posted a link but I guess since I'm new it requires moderator approval.

But yes, Payload is GVWR - Curb. It always has been. That's what Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is. The total weight your vehicle can carry.

As an example with my Jeep: Does it make sense to have a GVWR of 6800 with a curb weight of 5000 but to only have a payload of 1050? Where did the extra 750# go? Unless the tongue weight is not included, which it is not. The numbers do not add up exactly because I'm sure there is some "cushion" in there to account for weight measurement errors.
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Old 10-25-2021, 04:28 PM   #12
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I posted a link but I guess since I'm new it requires moderator approval.

But yes, Payload is GVWR - Curb. It always has been. That's what Gross Vehicle Weight Rating is. The total weight your vehicle can carry.

As an example with my Jeep: Does it make sense to have a GVWR of 6800 with a curb weight of 5000 but to only have a payload of 1050? Where did the extra 750# go? Unless the tongue weight is not included, which it is not. The numbers do not add up exactly because I'm sure there is some "cushion" in there to account for weight measurement errors.
Where did you get the curb weight, I know my truck does not state curb weight anywhere. Inside the door it give GVWR, Payload and GAWR Fr/Rr) that's it.

These are the numbers highway enforcement works off.
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Old 10-25-2021, 04:57 PM   #13
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Curb weight is on the internet for an approximate value which should be close. If you want to know your real value for sure visit a scale and weigh your vehicle without you in it with no cargo the vehicle did not come with (including yourself).

Your GVWR is the maximum your vehicle can weigh fully loaded while towing a trailer or not. But the tongue weight limit cannot be exceeded even if you still have unused weight according to your GVWR.
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Old 10-25-2021, 05:53 PM   #14
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Curb weight is on the internet for an approximate value which should be close. If you want to know your real value for sure visit a scale and weigh your vehicle without you in it with no cargo the vehicle did not come with (including yourself).

Your GVWR is the maximum your vehicle can weigh fully loaded while towing a trailer or not. But the tongue weight limit cannot be exceeded even if you still have unused weight according to your GVWR.
FYI; Their is no law as to the maximum tongue weight that I'm aware of.
The tongue weight you are referring is by the manufacturer for wear and tear purposes. This measurement is in the owners manual not on the compliance label.

Having said that tongue weight would be part if not all of your available payload weight.

Curb weight really means nothing. To get a maximum payload available, (how much more you can add (tongue/box weight) you need to weight the vehicle with passengers, full tank of gas, canopy in tact if you have one and anything else added to the vehicle ie roof racks, bigger tires, brush guard, side steps etc, etc...) you take the CAT weigh scale total then subtract this number from GVWR sticker inside drivers door. This is how much extra tongue/box weight (Payload) you can add if any.
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Old 10-25-2021, 06:10 PM   #15
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FYI; Their is no law as to the maximum tongue weight that I'm aware of.
The tongue weight you are referring is by the manufacturer for wear and tear purposes. This measurement is in the owners manual not on the compliance label.

Having said that tongue weight would be part if not all of your available payload weight.

Curb weight really means nothing. To get a maximum payload available, (how much more you can add (tongue/box weight) you need to weight the vehicle with passengers, full tank of gas, canopy in tact if you have one and anything else added to the vehicle ie roof racks, bigger tires, brush guard, side steps etc, etc...) you take the CAT weigh scale total then subtract this number from GVWR sticker inside drivers door. This is how much extra tongue/box weight (Payload) you can add if any.
You can load up your vehicle however you see fit. It's not my problem. See the link I posted above in my post that the moderators approved if you don't want to believe me. I have approximately 1800# of payload minus whatever my tongue weight is.

The law about tongue weight is the law of physics...

I'm not going to argue about this and I'm done here.
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Old 10-25-2021, 06:42 PM   #16
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I have approximately 1800# of payload minus whatever my tongue weight is.
Apologies, I was not trying to offend. I was only relating what I have learned from the sites and how it would relate to your Jeep.

If all that stuff I mentioned is part of your setup and you subtract the actual CAT weight (all in) from the Jeep sticker GVWR and you get 1800# you are absolutely 100% correct.
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Old 10-25-2021, 07:11 PM   #17
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You can load up your vehicle however you see fit. It's not my problem. See the link I posted above in my post that the moderators approved if you don't want to believe me. I have approximately 1800# of payload minus whatever my tongue weight is.

The law about tongue weight is the law of physics...

I'm not going to argue about this and I'm done here.
This would be an example of jeep a gladiator payload; weight of passenger/s and gas must be subtracted as must any aftermarket additions from the payload number listed here.

https://tfltruck.com/2019/03/2020-je...-towing-specs/
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Old 10-25-2021, 07:18 PM   #18
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I skimmed DaveW’s link. That article doesn’t seem to speak to the issue here (does not mention the impact of tongue weight on payload capacity). I’m guessing that specific Jeep weighs about 5750 when fully fueled based on how it was optioned. Might be worth rolling over a CAT scale at some point just to be sure.

Edit: I’ll admit 5750 does seem high for a curb weight though. Strange. .
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Old 10-25-2021, 08:32 PM   #19
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I skimmed DaveW’s link. That article doesn’t seem to speak to the issue here (does not mention the impact of tongue weight on payload capacity). I’m guessing that specific Jeep weighs about 5750 when fully fueled based on how it was optioned. Might be worth rolling over a CAT scale at some point just to be sure.

Edit: I’ll admit 5750 does seem high for a curb weight though. Strange. .
I agree the write up is vague.

Dave is on the right track, but to get a starting max available payload for his personal Jeep and before subtracting tongue weight he needs to weigh the Jeep (with driver, full tank of gas and any aftermarket additions) then subtract this new (curb shall we call it) from the sticker GCWR.

Dave would then subtract the measured TW/Hitch (if towing) weight from max available payload to get weight max he can place in the bed (assuming no extra passengers were added).

The article like many make the reader believe they can pull a trailer at a weight as stated in rated towing capacity plus load the truck to the rated payload.

The impact of Tongue Weight is lost in the message.

Vehicle Payload capacity available in 99% of the cases dictates the trailer that can be towed due to the fact that in most trailers, storage forward of axles directly impacts tongue weight which directly impacts available payload.

This latter info is not directed at anyone, but for reference.
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Old 10-25-2021, 09:23 PM   #20
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I was intrigued by DaveW's Jeep because 4x4 SUVs with 1500+ pounds of actual payload are relatively rare. After looking around for a bit, it's very hard to find any definitive information about the Jeep because most spots report the 5004 curb weight and 6500 GVWR for the base model. I've found curb weights listed as high as 5363, which likely represent high-spec V8 versions. So I'm inclined to think the V8 Jeeps are closer to 5300 lbs. That's still 1200 lbs of payload at the lower 6500 GVWR (competitive). If Jeep uprated the V8 models to 6800 GVWR (I've not found that number anywhere yet unfortunately), then the payload would be a very good 1500 lbs. I'm not sure why Jeep would have a sticker of 1050 on it. I'd ignore the payload sticker and just keep it under GVWR (and GAWRs, and receiver limits).

My F350 diesel was ~150 lbs lighter than one would assume based on the payload sticker (took it to a CAT scale shortly after purchase), so maybe Jeep deducts a 150 lb driver from the payload value. I'm done here too. Interesting tangent.
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