Pure Sine Inverter Install

[Bcborn]

Good Day,

I have a 2017 2106FBS Micro Minnie and want to install a small Pure Sine Inverter to power the TV and mini sound bar.

Yes there is 12 volts to the stereo, thinking the wiring to the stereo is not heavy enough to power an inverter, sound bar and stereo.

I would like to mount the inverter in the cabinet above where the TV is mounted and current 120 volt plugs are located.

Has anyone done this and how did you get 12 volt wiring from the batteries (Front junction Box) to this location with the under belly sealed.

Wiring Ideas and Inverter mfg and size suggestions.

Thanks,

[Wyatt]

You didn’t say how many watts your inverter has, but that all equates to what gauge wire to use to power the inverter.
Typically, inverters are installed close to the batteries with very low gauge (thick) wire. The the inverter output, which is AC, can travel wherever you need it without power loss.
This may help you.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/a...uge-d_730.html

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

You didn’t say how many watts your inverter has, but that all equates to what gauge wire to use to power the inverter.
Typically, inverters are installed close to the batteries with very low gauge (thick) wire. The the inverter output, which is AC, can travel wherever you need it without power loss.
This may help you.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/a...uge-d_730.html

Seeing I'm only powering the TV and a small monitor type soundbar, I'm assuming an inverter no larger than 200 watts would be suitable for the TV and Soundbar.

Yes the batteries are at the front of the trailer, the battery disconnect is in the pass thru. I could place the inverter in the front pass thru and power off the battery disconnect unfortunately the Tv in in the back 2/3rds of the trailer and an extension cord would be required. Not what I want to do.

[Marine359]

With the exception of the 10awg wiring from roof gland to pass thru, I believe the rest of the 12v wiring in a micro Minnie is 14awg. 14awg can carry up to 15amps if properly fused. You can call WBGO customer service and give them your VIN# if you’d like them to send you a wiring diagram. BTW, 15amps is the maximum amperage that can be sent through a 12v cigarette lighter outlet. If you have sufficient wire gauge up by the radio, you could install a 12v outlet with inline fuse. Then plug a low wattage psw inverter into that outlet. 15amps @ 12v = 180 watts max.

[Fred 2106DS]

If you have the Happijac slide system in your 2017, there is 10 AWG wiring going to the slide motor behind the kickboard under the slide room. I tied into this when I added USB and 12V power ports on the shelf below the TV.

[Wyatt]

Originally Posted by Bcborn

Seeing I'm only powering the TV and a small monitor type soundbar, I'm assuming an inverter no larger than 200 watts would be suitable for the TV and Soundbar.

Yes the batteries are at the front of the trailer, the battery disconnect is in the pass thru. I could place the inverter in the front pass thru and power off the battery disconnect unfortunately the Tv in in the back 2/3rds of the trailer and an extension cord would be required. Not what I want to do.

Yeah I was guessing you were going the 1,000 watt + inverter size.
200 watts is no big deal to put where you can get some good 12v to.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by Fred 2106DS

If you have the Happijac slide system in your 2017, there is 10 AWG wiring going to the slide motor behind the kickboard under the slide room. I tied into this when I added USB and 12V power ports on the shelf below the TV.

Thanks Fred,

Did you take any pictures or where you ran the wires leading to your USB/12V surface mounted power ports. Did you drill up thru the counter to get to the surface mounted power.

Did you mount just USB and Cigarette plug or did you put in a volt meter and any on/off switches to disable ports?

[Fred 2106DS]

Originally Posted by Bcborn

Thanks Fred,

Did you take any pictures or where you ran the wires leading to your USB/12V surface mounted power ports. Did you drill up thru the counter to get to the surface mounted power.

Did you mount just USB and Cigarette plug or did you put in a volt meter and any on/off switches to disable ports?

Below are some pictures of how I ran my 10 AWG wires for the power ports.

The first picture is the OEM setup under the slide room.

The second picture shows the plywood partition/cover removed. You can see where the OEM wiring for the slide comes through the wall to the slide controller.

The third picture shows the wiring I added for the power ports and ran it through the same hole as the slide wiring.

The fourth picture shows the 1/2" hole I drilled through the counter to bring the new 10 AWG wiring up through. Each power port pod has a 10 amp fuse.

The fifth picture shows our current power port pod set ups. One of the ports I added has a voltage display. I control the power to the pods using the power switch for the slide room. Essentially we leave the power to the slide room on all the time, even when not camping.

I believe your lower cabinet is arranged a different than ours since your radio is in the upper cabinet. The sixth and seventh pictures shows the arrangement and what is behind our lower cabinet. I was able to get these pictures when I added the USB powered fireplace. Also, because I had easy access to this area, I was able to attach my new wires to the framing for stress relief.

In the seventh picture, you can also see the outside shower enclosure and the way the outside shower hose stores in this area. It looks like you could gain access to this area by removing the outside shower enclosure. This may make running your wires a little easier than fishing for them.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by Fred 2106DS

Below are some pictures of how I ran my 10 AWG wires for the power ports.

The first picture is the OEM setup under the slide room.

The second picture shows the plywood partition/cover removed. You can see where the OEM wiring for the slide comes through the wall to the slide controller.

The third picture shows the wiring I added for the power ports and ran it through the same hole as the slide wiring.

The fourth picture shows the 1/2" hole I drilled through the counter to bring the new 10 AWG wiring up through. Each power port pod has a 10 amp fuse.

The fifth picture shows our current power port pod set ups. One of the ports I added has a voltage display. I control the power to the pods using the power switch for the slide room. Essentially we leave the power to the slide room on all the time, even when not camping.

I believe your lower cabinet is arranged a different than ours since your radio is in the upper cabinet. The sixth and seventh pictures shows the arrangement and what is behind our lower cabinet. I was able to get these pictures when I added the USB powered fireplace. Also, because I had easy access to this area, I was able to attach my new wires to the framing for stress relief.

In the seventh picture, you can also see the outside shower enclosure and the way the outside shower hose stores in this area. It looks like you could gain access to this area by removing the outside shower enclosure. This may make running your wires a little easier than fishing for them.

Thanks Fred, My cabinetry is Identical. The radio didn't move to the upper cabinet till 2018 model year I believe. At least not till after our 11/16 Build Date.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by Fred 2106DS

The sixth and seventh pictures shows the arrangement and what is behind our lower cabinet.

In the seventh picture, you can also see the outside shower enclosure and the way the outside shower hose stores in this area. It looks like you could gain access to this area by removing the outside shower enclosure. This may make running your wires a little easier than fishing for them.

Is the 6" (approx) vertical cavity in picture six the same area shown in picture seven behind the shower fixture. Is this cavity where the original slide wires entered and your feed of wires.

In picture six to the right at the back their is a rectangular opening with wires going up. Do you feel it's possible I feed the power wires down from the upper cabinet through this opening then down via the channel (behind your USB Fireplace) to the area behind the shower fixture and then out to the slide tie in?

This way I could put a dedicated 120V type receptical in the base of the upper cabinet powered from a concealed inverter placed in the upper cabinet.

On my way up to the upper cabinet with 12V, I would place a 4 port flush mount panel with volt meter, cigarette plug, USB plugs and on/off switch (where you placed your fireplace).

The on/off switch could be wired to kill all power to this panel and the inverter.

[Fred 2106DS]

Originally Posted by Bcborn

Is the 6" (approx) vertical cavity in picture six the same area shown in picture seven behind the shower fixture. Is this cavity where the original slide wires entered and your feed of wires. Yes

In picture six to the right at the back their is a rectangular opening with wires going up. Do you feel it's possible I feed the power wires down from the upper cabinet through this opening then down via the channel (behind your USB Fireplace) to the area behind the shower fixture and then out to the slide tie in? Yes, I believe that channel is formed by the 45 degree angle at the back of the shower stall so it should extend to the ceiling.
Below, I added a couple more pictures that show those areas a little better.

This way I could put a dedicated 120V type receptical in the base of the upper cabinet powered from a concealed inverter placed in the upper cabinet.

On my way up to the upper cabinet with 12V, I would place a 4 port flush mount panel with volt meter, cigarette plug, USB plugs and on/off switch (where you placed your fireplace).

The on/off switch could be wired to kill all power to this panel and the inverter.

See answers above.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Bcborn

The on/off switch could be wired to kill all power to this panel and the inverter.

This is important, especially if your inverter doesn't have an easily accessible and obvious on/off switch. Even in standby mode, it can put enough of a load on your batteries to be problematical.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by Fred 2106DS

See answers above.

I just realized the last picture is looking down the cavity to the trailer floor and the black and white wires coming in are from the slide room.

Will have to look closer at the upper cabinet and see if the power wires, antenna and RCA's come in from the shower corner. Can see why they moved the stereo to the upper cabinet after the 2017 build.

I just picked up the trailer last week and have lots to learn. Expecially how to get at the wires under the jack knife sofa. Assume you put the divider back in and re mounted the controller under the sofa once you completed the wiring.

Fred, I looked a some of your posts re mods, I sure like what you have done.

Great Job.

[Fred 2106DS]

Originally Posted by Bcborn

I just realized the last picture is looking down the cavity to the trailer floor and the black and white wires coming in are from the slide room.

Will have to look closer at the upper cabinet and see if the power wires, antenna and RCA's come in from the shower corner. Can see why they moved the stereo to the upper cabinet after the 2017 build.

I just picked up the trailer last week and have lots to learn. Expecially how to get at the wires under the jack knife sofa. Assume you put the divider back in and re mounted the controller under the sofa once you completed the wiring.

Fred, I looked a some of your posts re mods, I sure like what you have done.

Great Job.

If the mounting for the kick plate hasn't been modified...pick up on the seat cushion and at the top, on the back side of the kick plate, you should find a screw on each end and one in the middle that holds the kick plate in place.

Yes, I put the divider back and remounted the controller, see below.

Here's a link to my Blog that has a PDF with links to most of my mods.

[BobC]

It may have already been mentioned, but I've read that you should wire the inverter with both + and - wires to the battery and not to depend on a chassis ground.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by Wyatt

You didn’t say how many watts your inverter has, but that all equates to what gauge wire to use to power the inverter.
Typically, inverters are installed close to the batteries with very low gauge (thick) wire. The the inverter output, which is AC, can travel wherever you need it without power loss.
This may help you.
https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/a...uge-d_730.html

Wyatt, If I read that chart correctly using #10 wire to supply inverter it says;

the maximum draw/supply at 15 feet would be 20 amps.

the maximum draw/supply at 20 feet would be 15 amps

Bestek the manufacturer of the inverter says if their 300 watt pure sine inverter is plugged into a cigarette lighter with supplied plug (15 amps) it will output 150 watts. If hooked to the battery with the supplied alligator clips it will output 300amps.

The 32" Samsung LED TV I intend to use has a power consumption of 38 watts max (20 watts Average). the Sound Bar has a AC/DC adapter that outputs 18v 4amps. I cannot find anywhere how many watts the AC/DC adapter draws from an AC circuit.

Having said that, if I tie into the 10amp circuit as suggested by Fred and run a maximum of 20 feet with #10 wire the inverter will draw on 15 amps.

As noted by the manufacturer the inverter will output 150 watts on a 15amp supply. As the TV draws 38 watts max I doubt the sound bar draws 112watts (150 - 38).

Does that sound right?

[Wyatt]

I think with the small draw LED TV’s use you’ll probably be fine. Why not test it out first?

[BobC]

1. I'd read "will output" as "can safely output". I suspect the cigarette lighter plug probably has a fuse in it to limit the output. If you wire directly to the 12V wiring you won't have this protection and your inverter will try to output as much as the load requires even if it exceeds 150W. Even if you plan on using the supplied plug, I'd install a fused 12V cigarette lighter outlet. That way, you'll be protected in case anything else is ever plugged into the outlet. The 12V circuit itself will be protected by a fuse, but a "belt-and-suspenders" approach isn't a bad idea. Don't forget that the 15A capacity includes everything else fed by the 12V circuit.

2. If the output of the soundbar's power supply is 4A at 18V, this is 4 x 18 = 72W. Assuming an inefficiency factor of 10%, it's draw on the inverter would be around 1.10 x 72W = 79.2W+/-. However, this is the maximum output of the power supply, not the actual wattage it will supply to the soundbar itself. It's actual draw will be based on what the soundbar actually consumes, not this maximum. Your soundbar should have its actual power consumption listed on it somewhere and it's probably significantly less that 72W. Small soundbars may draw as little as 10W, larger ones maybe 50W.

In any case, you should be OK as long as you make sure the circuit is properly fused as mentioned in my first comment. If you don't, you risk overloading your wiring since the inverter doesn't know how it's connected to the batteries.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by BobC

1. I'd read "will output" as "can safely output". I suspect the cigarette lighter plug probably has a fuse in it to limit the output. If you wire directly to the 12V wiring you won't have this protection and your inverter will try to output as much as the load requires even if it exceeds 150W. Even if you plan on using the supplied plug, I'd install a fused 12V cigarette lighter outlet. That way, you'll be protected in case anything else is ever plugged into the outlet. The 12V circuit itself will be protected by a fuse, but a "belt-and-suspenders" approach isn't a bad idea. Don't forget that the 15A capacity includes everything else fed by the 12V circuit.

2. If the output of the soundbar's power supply is 4A at 18V, this is 4 x 18 = 72W. Assuming an inefficiency factor of 10%, it's draw on the inverter would be around 1.10 x 72W = 79.2W+/-. However, this is the maximum output of the power supply, not the actual wattage it will supply to the soundbar itself. It's actual draw will be based on what the soundbar actually consumes, not this maximum. Your soundbar should have its actual power consumption listed on it somewhere and it's probably significantly less that 72W. Small soundbars may draw as little as 10W, larger ones maybe 50W.

In any case, you should be OK as long as you make sure the circuit is properly fused as mentioned in my first comment. If you don't, you risk overloading your wiring since the inverter doesn't know how it's connected to the batteries.

Thanks Bob,

Assume the cigarette plug that came with the inverter has a fuse inside, I didn't take it apart.

The Inverter has two 40amp Fused built into it.

https://www.bestekdirect.com/bestek-...12v-to-ac-110v

The soundbar came today, attached is a picture of the AC/DC adapter. Do I go by the input or output amps for the calculation here?

https://www.meredo.net/products/mere...7ch-6?variant=

Based on the #10 wire size at the slide motor, would you suggest a 15amp inline fuse after the tie in, based on the required power.

Winnebago Schematics are shown as the 10GA wire goes from the battery to the slide on/off switch then to the slide in/out switch then to the motor. Likely 20 feet of wire in itself if that's the case.

Both would never be operated at the same time anyway.

Thanks,

[BobC]

1. The inverter's fuses protects the inverter once the power from the batteries reaches the inverter. They do nothing to protect the 12V wiring.

2. The AC/DC adapter specs confuse me. As I previously stated, the maximum output wattage is 18V x 4.0A = 72 Watts. The input specs calculate to 100V x 1.7A = 170W @ 100V AC and 240 x 1.7A = 408W. These numbers make no sense, watts should be constant and amps should vary with the voltage. The amp draw at 240V should be 100/240 = 41.7% of the draw at 100V, not equal.

3. Let's assume that the 1.7A draw at 100V is correct, which is terrible efficiency since it represents a draw of 170W at 100V to produce 72W at 18V.

4. Given these inconsistencies, I'm going to have to go with Wyatt's suggestion and test it. I suggest hooking the inverter up directly to a 12V battery and measuring the amp draw from the battery with a multimeter when operating both the TV and the soundbar.

5. Personally, I'd rather see you run a dedicated, fused line from your battery or, ideally from your 12V distribution panel. It should be labeled at both ends. Owner mods are difficult to sort out by future owners, so documentation is key. Assuming you do want to use an existing circuit, I'd choose something other than than that feeding the slide motor. You say they'll never be operated at the same time but they could be by someone else or a future owner.