PDI - not good

[mrlichty]

Hello,
I just thought I would update about our experience with our PDI today. Maybe you could give your feedback if I made the right call. We were supposed to be picking up our 2022 Minnie 2529RG but ended up coming home without our camper and told them we wouldn't accept this one. There were many things wrong that we found during the PDI and the main thing that failed was the roof rubber membrane.

Here are some images







To give you a rundown of how this went in the beginning.
We get there 1/2 hour before our 9:30 appt - there was an accident so we left early and google did a great job of getting us around it. They tell us to have a seat at a table and the manager comes over and says there was a problem with the insurance from the dealership and they couldn't get the trailer inspected but had it there now and it should be back in under an hour. So we saw them pull in with our trailer and at 9:50 and they said they were going to wash it and clean it quick.. it was an hour later and they finally come in and get us. We go out and walk into the unit and find that is has:
The wrong style of theater seats - 2021 had a theater seat with a center section that is solid and 2022 has a theater seat that is more like a sofa with the back that folds down but it could be used either way.
We also see that the radio is just a regular radio without the DVD/CD.
The lady showing us the camper offers to get the manager right away - he said he would try to find a new sofa and he could order a new radio.
They had the heater running and I felt the ducts and there was no air moving from the dinette area. After discussing this with our guide I talked to a service guy and the manager who said depending on the layout of the heating system it will be lower airflow than other ducts. THERE WAS NOTHING COMING OUT. Later in our checkup my wife saw a screw under the pantry located aside of the bathroom door. She reached under the cabinet to get the screw and it was very warm under the pantry. She laid on the floor and saw there was a rectangular hole in the floor under the pantry that had some flashing around it but it was wide open without a cover. We slid the sink cover over this hole and a little bit of air started coming out of the heat duct that wasn't working.
It is difficult to see but here is a picture - the vent on the left goes into the bathroom and you can see the rough cut rectangular hole.



The water pump was so loud - they checked into this and the tech figured that it was a problem because the water came to the pump with Pex and normally it would be a more flexible line.

We filled the fresh water tank and then filled the black and both grey tanks. There was a water leak under both the bathroom sink and the kitchen sink. The tech came back and said the piping seemed completely wrong under the bathroom. It had a nut that should have screwed in to seal the pipe but it didn't even fit and was just hanging there around the pipe. We then checked every few minutes to see if water had drained at all. The black water kept on draining and it would take around a 32oz cup to fill it up again. The galley grey water tank kept on draining as well. It would take minutes of running the water again to fill the water into the sink again. We kept looking outside but didn't see where the water was coming out. We later saw a steady stream of water coming from the underbelly.
The shower didn't have any type of caulk at the top of it.. there was around most of the bathroom but above the shower was nothing.





The rubber around both sides of the slide didn't lay correctly each time we brought the slide in and the extended it again.
Notice the slide topper we had them install is just a little shorter than the actual slide it is supposed to be covering.. The manager said it would have to be a monsoon for something to blow under there. I told him a 5mph breeze would blow a leaf under there without a problem. It also seems like it isn't really on straight?





There is a flip up counter extender to the theater seat side of the sink that is missing in this unit.
Passthrough storage on camp side locks but you can just pull the door a little and it opens.
Fridge door doesn't really lock and can be pulled just a little and pops open. The freezer works correctly.

There were many other smaller things that were wrong (the things I expected to find) Cap on the bottom of a shade in kitchen which hooks the shade was missing (he stole one from another camper to fix), USB plug was loose, material in the shower door was a different cheaper material than we saw in other unit but..
By this time we are only into our checklist by a couple pages and have a lot left to check.

The whole time we were finding thing after thing and they kept saying they would fix everything. I kept coming back in my mind to the roof and just couldn't get past it. Finally after being there for 5 hours looking over stuff and 7 hours total we had enough and said we wouldn't take this camper.

I told them they should complain to Winnebago and make them aware of the issues but the manager basically said if we didn't accept this they would fix the issues (except roof) and sell it to the next person.

Because I bought this at a show my salesman was from Michigan and I am in PA. I forwarded some pictures to him and he was going to reach out to his Winnebago contact.

What do you think? Would you have accepted this?

[lenore]

No, that roof is a disaster.....

[cjbbgmonroe]

The absolutely horrendous workmanship not withstanding, how on earth could they possibly think that selling that abomination was a good idea? Kudos to you for being informed, prepared and willing to give them the proverbial finger.

[be happy]

Thats what the PDI is for! As much as you were looking forward to the new unit, I believe you did the right thing by walking away. That move may have saved you a lot of head aches later on.

[creativepart]

You did good!

Absolutely the correct thing to do. A perfect example of why the PDI is so vital and why it must be done up front and before closing on the sale.

I would add that I wouldn’t trust that dealer in the future if they honestly tried to get you to accept that TT. THEY should have rejected it from the delivery driver.

So many people buying new RVs plan to show up at the dealership and rush through or even skip the PDI. Some have reported here that they had bought their new RV sight unseen at the beginning of winter and don’t plan to use it until the next summer. Horror!

Thank you for giving us a full report. You saved yourself immense grief.

[mrlichty]

Thank you for all the replies.. I wasn't happy when my wife and I both take a day off of work but don't end up bringing anything home.

Originally Posted by creativepart

You did good!

I would add that I wouldn’t trust that dealer in the future if they honestly tried to get you to accept that TT. THEY should have rejected it from the delivery driver.

So many people buying new RVs plan to show up at the dealership and rush through or even skip the PDI. Some have reported here that they had bought their new RV sight unseen at the beginning of winter and don’t plan to use it until the next summer. Horror!

They were trying so hard to get me to take the trailer. I saw the roof and was thinking about what I should do about that (in the back of my head as we were talking other issues) and he said to take the trailer and he would order the new sofa and radio then we could bring the trailer back when it came in. I told him that I wasn't going to take it home until it was correct... in other words I wasn't paying for it until it was correct. He asked again about me taking the trailer home and said about not having much space which I knew was BS because they have another lot which he later admitted was like a ghost town.

[Marine359]

Second the motion. Find a new dealer. Congrats on not taking home a lemon.

[deckape]

If they acted like that in trying to sell you this trailer, Their service would / could be worst. That service would of been months trying to get these things fixed. Walk away and fine another trailer somewhere else. Service it as bad if not worst than the selling .

[mrlichty]

Quick update...
I called Winnebago and the lady in customer care was very concerned and gave me an email for customer care as well as the Eastern sales contact (salesman? not sure of exact title). She also forwarded my call to him and I left a message. The salesman called back very quickly and wasn't a big help.. While on the phone I sent the email to both him and customer care so he could see the issues I had. He said something like... each trailer has its own characteristics and also said the vent was supposed to be under the pantry - I wasn't impressed. He wasn't concerned at all about the issues.
Today I heard back from customer care...
Good morning,
Thank you for taking the time to discuss this experience with us. I have provided the photos that you supplied to our management teams and most importantly our quality control leadership. Please be advised that this is not acceptable by Winnebago standards.
Winnebago will be working hand in hand with our production and quality control teams to make sure that we are providing a quality product and service to our customers, a product that amplifies our value of our customers and product.
We thank you for bringing this to our attention and we look forward to working with you and having you become a part of the Winnebago family!
Thank You,

I emailed back about where we go from here and my concerns about the dealership.
So we will see what happens.

[creativepart]

Thanks for the update. Fingers crossed they keep working to get you into a well-built TT.

Winnebago is a big company - they have many divisions. Since you are buying a travel trailer you are working with the Towables division in Indiana. Those of us with motorhomes are working with the main factory and offices in Forest City, Iowa. I have to admit, I don't know a lot about the towables division and how they operate. But it does seem different than the motorhome division.

Winnebago also owns Grand Design travel trailers and 5th wheels, Newmar Motorhomes, Chris Craft Boating and a few others.

Keep working with them and I hope they make this all better - at another dealership.

[Wayne M]

Originally Posted by mrlichty

Quick update...
I called Winnebago and the lady in customer care was very concerned and gave me an email for customer care as well as the Eastern sales contact (salesman? not sure of exact title). She also forwarded my call to him and I left a message. The salesman called back very quickly and wasn't a big help.. While on the phone I sent the email to both him and customer care so he could see the issues I had. He said something like... each trailer has its own characteristics and also said the vent was supposed to be under the pantry - I wasn't impressed. He wasn't concerned at all about the issues.
Today I heard back from customer care...
Good morning,
Thank you for taking the time to discuss this experience with us. I have provided the photos that you supplied to our management teams and most importantly our quality control leadership. Please be advised that this is not acceptable by Winnebago standards.
Winnebago will be working hand in hand with our production and quality control teams to make sure that we are providing a quality product and service to our customers, a product that amplifies our value of our customers and product.
We thank you for bringing this to our attention and we look forward to working with you and having you become a part of the Winnebago family!
Thank You,

I emailed back about where we go from here and my concerns about the dealership.
So we will see what happens.

That looks like a stamped reply. They didn't tell you how they were going to satisfy "you."

Walk far away.

[DavidM]

Originally Posted by Wayne M

That looks like a stamped reply. They didn't tell you how they were going to satisfy "you."

Walk far away.

Walk away from that dealer and that RV.

David

[Marine359]

WBGO has no obligation to “satisfy” OP because he did not accept delivery. As long as dealer refunds all of his deposit money, he is whole. Hopefully he’s not totally soured on the brand, but he is a very smart cookie for doing a thorough PDI; something I didn’t do, but should have done. Luckily, my new WBGO, had only one minor defect.

[mrlichty]

Originally Posted by Marine359

WBGO has no obligation to “satisfy” OP because he did not accept delivery. As long as dealer refunds all of his deposit money, he is whole. Hopefully he’s not totally soured on the brand, but he is a very smart cookie for doing a thorough PDI; something I didn’t do, but should have done. Luckily, my new WBGO, had only one minor defect.

From Winnebago: Please be advised that this is not acceptable by Winnebago standards.... We thank you for bringing this to our attention and we look forward to working with you and having you become a part of the Winnebago family!
This is how I would like Winnebago to work with me (this was their fault that we are in this situation - they should never have released that unit). I found a new one at another dealership and would like to get a deal done.
#1 - I would prefer not to deal with that dealership to complete the sale. I did put a deposit down with that dealership at the show that is supposedly not refundable. I would like to see Winnebago help to push the dealership to refund my deposit.
#2 - During the show the Winnebago rep and dealership both threw in an extra $1500 to meet my offer. I understand that during a show they will have special money that they add to a deal. So I am requesting that they transfer that money to the new dealership so we can get to the same sale price I had with the bad dealership.
#3 - The tires on the show model and the one I was getting were goodyear and the one at the other dealership are Castlerock. I requested they cover the cost to put the Goodyear tires on the new deal.

I am not asking for anything additional to what I had purchased at the show. I just want them to allow me to buy from a dealership that didn't push me so hard to buy a trailer that even Winnebago said doesn't live up to their standards.
To be honest my wife and I are right on the edge if we even want to buy a Winnebago now and if they do nothing we might move on. We really like the layout and hope we can get one that is in much better shape.

I have emails out from Friday last week but haven't heard anything back.

[AJMike]

That is why it is always good to do the PDI before finance rather than after.

When we bought our last RV I told them that I wanted the PDI before anything else and we had to go through it 3 different times over the period of a week before I would accept the RV and go to finance. Each time there were problems which they probably would have fixed, but since I had not done finance they had an incentive to do the work quickly and properly.

Good for you. Find another dealer and another RV that you like and is working properly.

[creativepart]

I notify the dealer 3 or so days before we are due to pick up the RV and let them know that I want to schedule a minimum of 6 hours for the PDI. I tell them to have the RV plugged in and the batteries fully charged. We have always picked up a RV in the summer, so I tell them to have the A/C running long before we get there and that we'll expect the temp inside to be between 70 and 72 degrees. No turning on the A/C 10 mins before we arrive.

I tell them to have the fresh tank full of water, as well as the black tank and the gray tank to check for leaks and I'll want to use their dump to test the dump procedure. I tell them they MUST have the fridge and freezer totally cooled down to normal temps - 37 degrees in the fridge and 2 degrees in the freezer.

The TVs and antenna must be operational. The water heater should be on propane heating and full of pre-heated water. I let them know I'll be testing all propane appliances so they should have the propane tank full.

Lastly, I will take the RV on a 30+ minute test drive of smaller roads, city roads and interstates.

This usually puts quite a scare into the salesman and in the last three RVs I've purchased they had generally followed every request. Though they usually "forget" something and I have to make them go through it right then. The hardest thing to test is the furnace because the A/C is running.

The last two RVs I've driven from the dealership to a close by campground. The dealer for my Adventurer was across I-40 from a large RV resort we usually stay at. So, that was easy. We instantly had a couple of problems and they sent a service tech across the highway to fix issues in our site. The morning of the first day there was a big hydraulic leak at one of the leveler jacks and we made them take the RV back and fix it. They said they didn't have a jack in stock but we pointed out that there was another Adventurer of a different floorplan on their lot and we expected them to take a jack off of that unit and fix ours. It took them a little while to agree with that, but they ended up doing so.

[1237dmctlc]

That is an excellent PDI and you made the right choice to not accept and walk away. To have that many issues before you even drive it would only mean it will get worse IMHO down the road and getting these and any other issues fixed will be a full-time job. Its sad to hear the dealers respond that he'd fix everything but the roof means he will probably do nothing and hope he sells it to someone that doesn't do a thorough PDI. Thats one dealer that everyone should know there name. Anyway I owned a Winnebago DP for a year before I bought my current DP and Winnebago did a good job along with the dealer fixing any of my issues, I'm glad to say. So hopefully they make whole on your deal with the other dealership.

[68SILVER]

Originally Posted by mrlichty

Thank you for all the replies.. I wasn't happy when my wife and I both take a day off of work but don't end up bringing anything home.



They were trying so hard to get me to take the trailer. I saw the roof and was thinking about what I should do about that (in the back of my head as we were talking other issues) and he said to take the trailer and he would order the new sofa and radio then we could bring the trailer back when it came in. I told him that I wasn't going to take it home until it was correct... in other words I wasn't paying for it until it was correct. He asked again about me taking the trailer home and said about not having much space which I knew was BS because they have another lot which he later admitted was like a ghost town.

I am wondering if you were in Butler PA

[Senecio]

Hi there,
You did right. Winnebago do not stand by their warranties, so better to reject than accept.
I bought a 2020 Micro Mini 2108 in June which was 15 months old, so I am the second owner. The trailer had a soft roof caused by water entering from around the bathroom hatch seal. This had been going on for months as can be seen by the mold and hole in the roof Aspenite (particle board or plywood); refer to picture. This was repaired by Lakeview RV at a cost of $4,108.
Winnebago Towables would not cover the repair or even pay for some of the repair. Their position was that this was caused by a lack of maintenance and that the 3-yr structural warranty is not transferable.
I now have the trailer for sale so that I can replace half of the money I had planned on using to go touring. I could not afford to both tour and pay for the repair on a pension.
If I was you I would walk away from the ordered trailer and buy another make from a good dealer. Winnebago is no longer what Winnebago once was.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Senecio

Winnebago do not stand by their warranties.... Winnebago is no longer what Winnebago once was.

Your sour grapes is understandable, but not deserved. It is plainly stated that the warranty is non-transferable. You are the second owner.

Would it have been great if Winnebago had absorbed the cost of your repair. Sure. But not doing so is exactly what you should have expected.

It's fine to slag Winnebago if they don't uphold their part of the bargain - but let's be fair. It's not realistic in your situation and you have no reason to believe that they are "not what they once (were)."

A realistic argument could easily be made that the person or dealer you purchased the TT from is who has let you down. Or whoever inspected the TT before the purchase is at fault. Was that you or did you hire a certified inspector that missed the issue?