New 2022 Micro Minnie 2108DS

[anewrver]

Just wanted to say thank you all for all your input and assistance in helping make our decision! I am sure we will have many more questions along the way!

Tomorrow is the big day for the pick up but not before an 8hr drive starting at 0330 hours aka zero dark thirty!

[creativepart]

It’s probably too late to give you much advice.

But here’s a little:

1. Before signing the purchase papers make the dealer show you every system. Not only how everything works but proving that it does.

2. Don’t rush don’t worry about taking the dealer’s time.

3. Don’t go through with the purchase if there are things wrong, missing or broken. Don’t trust them when they promise to make it right later.

4. Camp in the TT the day you take delivery as close as possible to the dealer so you can go back the next day for repairs or instructions about everything.

5. Don’t rush the hitch set up and buy the best you can afford. If you settle for something cheaper you will replace it later and waste that money.

6. Don’t let the F&I people try to sell you worthless overpriced stuff. Especially an “Extended Warranty.” The dealer is the worse place to buy one of those, even if you want to buy one of those contracts.

I know you’re going to say, “Well, I can’t do all of that. I don’t have the time, etc.” Believe me you will regret it if you rush the PDI, rush home with the TT and then discover a handful of problems.

You cannot trust that the dealer has spent any meaningful time checking over your TT to be sure it’s ready for purchase.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by anewrver

Just wanted to say thank you all for all your input and assistance in helping make our decision! I am sure we will have many more questions along the way!

Tomorrow is the big day for the pick up but not before an 8hr drive starting at 0330 hours aka zero dark thirty!

anewrver, Trust you made it back safely, how was the tow. Did everything workout re the winterization when you got back?

[anewrver]

Hi Bcborn! yup we did make it back safely! It was pretty interesting on the way back for sure though! Hit a bad snowstorm coming over the Blue Mountains that was pretty white knuckled for sure with sleet snow and ice and it took an extra two days longer to get home so not the way I'd hoped to break in the maiden tow back to the house. They wiinterized it at the dealer and with the ensuing weather forecasted to come we decided not to push it and instead dry camped. The trailer is awesome we love it, still pretty cold here but decided to do another dry camping run next week down by my sons school so thats good! TV worked decent after we increased the tire pressure in the rears to max. Still notice when the big rigs or heavy wind gusts hit us but i am guessing its bc its a shorter wb tv. I may try to tighten the blue ox wdh up a link and see how that works also, hopefully that in addition to some weight from freshwater in the tank wil stabilize it a bit more! it will be another couple weeks before we can really open her up and do a true maiden test run!

[Bcborn]

Its work in progress, you will get it just where you want it through by making small adjustments. Eventually you will have it down to a science.

I towed back from Phoenix with an empty unit as well and did notice a bit of wind drift when passed.

As we have gone a full season (2022) with our Minnie, the unit towed way better by season end (loaded with all our camping gear). It took several trips placing the gear strategically to get it just right.

Good Luck and enjoy your new toy.

[anewrver]

Thanks we are already planning a long one to go visit our soon to be 1st grandchild in Florida over the summer! Should be plenty fun for sure!

[Bcborn]

Forgot to mention, never hurts to get a Cat scale reading along the way so you can adjust accordingly.

I assume all Cat Scales are the same and have 3 pads. I put the trailer axles on one pad, disconnected the trailer and placed the tongue on another pad. I pulled the truck forward and placed the rear axle of the truck on the other.

Next; I went through a road side commercial scale (pad only big enough for an axle or a double axle) to get my trucks rear axle in towing configuration. I did this when the scale was closed just incase my rear axle weight was out of compliance as I would be close with a 1000lb payload.

This gave me a baseline as to how much the tongue along with gear in the truck was loading the rear axle. Trying to maintain 12% -15% tongue weight and not over shoot the tow vehicle rear axle gross for safety, I moved gear in the trailer forward/rearward to meet my goal of keeping all weights in range.

My 2017 Minnie 2106FBS has a 7000 GVW so I knew I would never exceed that and my gear is about 1100lbs and the trailer spec was 3705lb

Hope this helps.

[anewrver]

we tried at a commerical place with two scales on the way home but i think i did it wrong. I put the vehicle on one scale and the trailer on the other ..hitched up with the wdh it was a total of 6120 on the scale with the vehicle and the trailer on the other weighed 4260.

Then we disconnected and took another two weights..vehicle scale was 5660 and trailer scale was 4720,

nothing really in the tv beside the wife and i mainly and the trailer had old wdh 2 cases of water two suitcases and my tools in the forward compartment with some food stuff in the main trailer closets..

pretty sure i have to go to a scale again when we actually have our stuff in there..

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by anewrver

we tried at a commerical place with two scales on the way home but i think i did it wrong. I put the vehicle on one scale and the trailer on the other ..hitched up with the wdh it was a total of 6120 on the scale with the vehicle and the trailer on the other weighed 4260.

Some of the trailer weight is transferred to the tow vehicle, thus the purpose of the WDH

Then we disconnected and took another two weights..vehicle scale was 5660 and trailer scale was 4720,

The trailer measurement here gives you a good baseline for the empty trailer (batteries, propane tanks) to compare to Winnebago's dry spec which is on the compliance tag which is on the trailer. The compliance tag gives you a payload (but who weighs the gear). The tag also gives you a loaded weight, this is the weight you want as done, that got you the 4720. You don't want to exceed the tags GVW for the trailer or the axle weights as this is what DOT checks for.

nothing really in the tv beside the wife and i mainly and the trailer had old wdh 2 cases of water two suitcases and my tools in the forward compartment with some food stuff in the main trailer closets..

Difference between 4720 and tag weight

pretty sure i have to go to a scale again when we actually have our stuff in there..

Yes

Once loaded (no water) you will weigh the trailer again and get a loaded weight trailer weight. The tongue weight should be 12% - 15% of that number. You can buy a sureline scale or use the commercial scale to weigh the tongue only. Moving gear forward or rearward with increase of decrease the tongue weight to get your 12% - 15%.

If your truck is rated for over 1500lb payload, you typically don't have to worry about over loading the TV rear axle if the trailer is within the allowable tow rating.

[No1Hunter]

Hit a bad snowstorm coming over the Blue Mountains

Washington - Oregon???

[anewrver]

yep coming from boise where we picked it up back to northeastern washington.

[anewrver]

our tv is a mercedes ml 350 the gasser version -
gawr front 3086
gawr rear 3527
gvwr 6283
payload 1080
max towing 7200
max tongue 576

on the trailer side of it we got a 2022 2108ds
gvwr 5500
gawr all 3000 per axle
cargo capacity 1244
brocure says dry weight of 2022 2108ds is 4140

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by anewrver

our tv is a mercedes ml 350 the gasser version -
gawr front 3086
gawr rear 3527
gvwr 6283
payload 1080
max towing 7200
max tongue 576

on the trailer side of it we got a 2022 2108ds
gvwr 5500
gawr all 3000 per axle
cargo capacity 1244
brocure says dry weight of 2022 2108ds is 4140

Similar to our Tacoma, not a lot of TV payload (includes driver, passenger kids, pets and tongue weight).

Weigh the ML 350 rear axle, (no gear, all passengers), this will give you an actual rear axle weight. Remember putting more tension on the equalizer bars will remove some weight from the rear axle and move it to the front axle.

Subtract this weight from gawr of 3527 and you will get a rough max tongue weight allowed. From that if you take 12% of trailer gvwr this number must not exceed max tongue from above.

As an example;
12% of 5500 gvwr equals 660lbs tongue weight
12% of 5300 gvwr equals 636lbs tongue weight

TV payload 1080 - 660 = 420 (driver, passenger kids, pets).

You can see where loading the gear is a balancing act. Not to add or take away too much from the tongue to achieve 12%

In our case, I cannot put much if anything in the box of the truck at a 1000lb payload.

[anewrver]

unfortunately we have an even more narrow window due to the max tongue weight of the ML bc even though the max towable weight is 7200, the max tongue weight for the vehicle as per spec is only 576 which is not 12% as is recommended in towing but rather 8% which is too light if the trailer is maxed to capacity. So if we follow the max tongue weight allowable for the vehicle as posted the max gvwr could not exceed 4800 lbs which would allow us to put 576 on the tongue..correct? or am i looking at this two narrowly?

[anewrver]

so if that is correct then technically if i am understanding this correctly if the trailer on the way back weighed in at 4720 then we could only add another 80 lbs of cargo in the trailer..i actually hope i am wrong on this..


i know that i didnt weigh it correctly for independent axle weights but the weight i did get would also seem that with the trailer weighing 4720 and it hooked up the weight of the vehicle was then 6120 - which would mean we are only like 160 pounds from maxing out the tow vehicle bc the max is 6283..?



can we weight on a DOT scale also? The nearest CAT Scale is like 2hrs from us..

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by anewrver

unfortunately we have an even more narrow window due to the max tongue weight of the ML bc even though the max towable weight is 7200, the max tongue weight for the vehicle as per spec is only 576 which is not 12% as is recommended in towing but rather 8% which is too light if the trailer is maxed to capacity. So if we follow the max tongue weight allowable for the vehicle as posted the max gvwr could not exceed 4800 lbs which would allow us to put 576 on the tongue..correct? or am i looking at this two narrowly?

First off the 576lbs is based on what type of hitch. a class 1 hitch possibly.

Second a lot of OEM manufacturers consider 10% as a safe limit. In most cases we with smaller units will never reach the max towing weight (7200 in your case), before exceeding some other aspect ie GAWR/TV Payload.

Personally I would be more concerned with the max GAWR for the rear of your ML. Tongue weight of the trailer and Payload in the ML will determine the final TV rear axle GAWR.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by anewrver

so if that is correct then technically if i am understanding this correctly if the trailer on the way back weighed in at 4720 then we could only add another 80 lbs of cargo in the trailer..i actually hope i am wrong on this..

Without taking the TV into account you could add 780lb of gear before you exceed 5500lbs

i know that i didnt weigh it correctly for independent axle weights but the weight i did get would also seem that with the trailer weighing 4720 and it hooked up the weight of the vehicle was then 6120 - which would mean we are only like 160 pounds from maxing out the tow vehicle bc the max is 6283..?

If the ML weighed in at 6120 towing home and has a payload of 1050, I would say there were lots of people and gear in the ML and lots of Tongue weight (15%?) to achieve the reported 890lbs (1050 - 160) payload and possibly the equalizer improperly adjusted.

The 6283 has nothing to do with trailer weight, but is effected by tongue weight.

can we weight on a DOT scale also? The nearest CAT Scale is like 2hrs from us..

You can weigh at a DOT scale, IF OPEN at the time of weighing and you exceed any weights a ticket could be issued and you may need to comply before leaving.

First, it would be good to know the weight of the ML in everyday form. You, the family and a full tank of gas. Lets call this weight "A"

Next you would subtract (6283 - "A") = Allowable Extra Weight Max (lets call that "B").

This Extra Allowable Weight will be made up of Tongue Weight and any extra gear you place in the ML that you don't typically carry.

Trailer payload (gear) impacts the trailer GVWR (5500lbs) which effects the required tongue weight (10% - 15%) for safety. Where you place the gear in the trailer also effects the tongue weight.

I found placing weight over the axle of the trailer didn't effect tongue weight and placing gear rearward of the axles took away tongue weight. Placing gear in the front pass thru and in front of axles increased tongue weight.

The real issue here is that the manufacturers design these trailers so when the propane tanks are full, batteries installed and gear is placed in the pass thru it impacts tongue weight first and foremost. To reverse this, one must now load the remaining gear rearward of the axles to decrease tongue weight, keeping in mind trailer GVWR (5500lb in your case). Be aware to what you place in the pass thru.


If you are slightly over in your rear GAWR and TV Payload and your TV and trailer is level you will not present red flags to DOT. You often see RV'rs going down the highway and the TV headlights are blinding other motorists as the headlights are pointing to the moon and TV bumper is dragging and the trailer tongue is making a nose dive you know something is off.

If your tongue weight is no less than 10% good chance you will not experience dangerous sway.

Follow the instructions for properly setting up the Blue Ox, (trailer is level and TV weight is transferred as per spec). Placing more load on the equalizer bars takes more weight off the rear axle and moves it forward to the front axle it also lifts the front of the trailer. You may find yourself lowering the ball and then pulling everything back up with extra bar preload. Trailer may end up 1" lower in front than the rear and thats OK, but not higher in the front than in the back.

We know that Winnebago's advertised Tongue Weight is no were close to being accurate when the propane tanks are full, batteries are installed and gear is in the pass thru. Keep this in mind.

The key starting points are;

1) What does the TV weigh typically (passenger, no gear, full of gas) ("A")

2) What amount of extra payload can be added to the TV before exceeding TV GVWR. ("B")

3) What is the weight of the trailer loaded ("C").
Note - keep in mine 5500lbs is the maximum.

4) What is the tongue weight of the loaded trailer ("D") (no less than 10% min of actual C). Move gear around to adjust.


In a nut shell. You have a TV max payload of 1050lb. If the trailer was loaded to max (5500lb) and you place the loaded gear to achieve a 12% ratio (660lbs) 1050 - 660 = 390lb

The 390 would represent passengers, gas and any additional gear.

My Double Cab Tacoma has a Leer canopy using up some of my payload and I'm able to achieve the results close to needed. My setup does not present DOT red flags.

[SactoSteve]

unfortunately we have an even more narrow window due to the max tongue weight of the ML bc even though the max towable weight is 7200, the max tongue weight for the vehicle as per spec is only 576

Yes this is exactly right the critical element is the TV max tongue weight. This is a lower limit than typically expected from a vehicle with 7200 towing capacity this is because the ML 350 is unibody construction.

Weight Distribution Hitches are highly recommended if trailer weight is over 50% of TV GCR (3141 in the ML 350 case)

However Weight Distribution Hitches are usually not approved for Unibody vehicles

Once past the above concerns Then tongue wt comes into play.

it is said Tongue wt should be 10 - 13% of trailer wt for best towing "stability".

Maxed out 2108ds GVWR is 5500 That's max the trailer can weigh fully loaded all things considered. 10% of that would be 550# therefore good to go. 13% would be 750# Thats OVER TV limit.

Shifting weight fore/aft can be used to adjust tongue weight.

A maxed out loaded 2108ds means you've ADDED 1360#s to the trailer. Thats a lot!

-Steve

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by anewrver

our tv is a mercedes ml 350 the gasser version -
gawr front 3086
gawr rear 3527
gvwr 6283
payload 1080
max towing 7200
max tongue 576

on the trailer side of it we got a 2022 2108ds
gvwr 5500
gawr all 3000 per axle
cargo capacity 1244
brocure says dry weight of 2022 2108ds is 4140

One thing I missed pointing out, if you add together the TV gawr (front) and the TV gawr (rear) you will notice it exceeds the TV gvwr.

DOT can only measure individual axle weights or total vehicle weight. So if you drove on to a scale with your trailer hooked on and placed just the TV rear wheels on the scale, you cannot exceed the rear 3527.

As Steve said, moving trailer weight rearward, (effects tongue weight) the trailer tongue pulls up on the TV hitch ball (teeders at trailer axle) and takes weight off the rear axle of the TV. Placing more tension on the equalizer hitch bars does the same effect, but places some of that removed weight on the front axles of the TV.

Weighing the TV axles separately in normal everyday mode, you get an idea of the weight on the front axle for safe steering pressure. By adjusting the WDH and transferring weight to the front to get close to the no trailer gawr (front) weight you know you will have achieved a good balance.

As I mentioned earlier if the lights are shinning to the sky the gawr (front) is very likely less that it was without towing.

Another thing when the manufacturer provide a tongue weight rating it is typically with a dead weight hitch (non equalizer type). They may also list a tongue weight rating when using an equalizer hitch.

A quick search of a 2014 ML 350 came up with the following.

[anewrver]

OK now i am really not sure how to handle this .. i looked through all the documentation i had regarding using a wdh with the trailer. I found nowhere in the documentation, manuals, or paperwork did it specifically say you could not use a wdh with it. Then i found this documentation...again it doesnt say specifically you cant from what i can see but it seems a wdh would almost be counterproductive to the existing systems on the ML350..so thoughts?? Use the wdh or not..??? I would be interested in hearing from anyone who tows with an ML350 as well regarding this..


https://group-media.mercedes-benz.co...ml?oid=9905150