Micro Minnie Suspension Height

[backtrack15]

I knew what I was ultimately buying. I wasn’t thrilled about it... but I’ve come around a bit. After our latest 3400 trip, I really believe the softer suspension probably saved me from some repairs. She took some hard hits without suffering any damage. I’ve also loaded everything I need and made all the mods I really want and I’m still well below the GAWR when fully loaded. So all is well.

[Foothills83]

Originally Posted by backtrack15

I knew what I was ultimately buying. I wasn’t thrilled about it... but I’ve come around a bit. After our latest 3400 trip, I really believe the softer suspension probably saved me from some repairs. She took some hard hits without suffering any damage. I’ve also loaded everything I need and made all the mods I really want and I’m still well below the GAWR when fully loaded. So all is well.

Heh. I notice you used GAWR and not GVWR.

[backtrack15]

Originally Posted by Foothills83

Heh. I notice you used GAWR and not GVWR.

Yes I did. CAT scale for the axles during our last trip was 4160, which makes me feel good since it is well below 5000 (total GAWR) and even further below the tire capacity (which is north of 8000 total). My loaded tongue weight is ~650. So that yields a total loaded trailer weight of 4810. There's not a ton of room there on GVWR (5000), but enough for me since I've added what I want to add. I do consider the GVWR that Winnebago assigned to be a BS number (driven by marketing and not engineering), but I'm happy to be below it nonetheless.

[Foothills83]

Yep. I get it and agree with you 100%. Your comments here about it over the last few months match my own conclusions from looking at numbers and chatting with somebody at Winnebago.

I'm sure I'll probably never go over the 5k Winnie-assigned GVWR, but I'm happy to know that the margin is there in terms of the engineering.

[tinglett]

Perhaps I should start a new thread, but the suspension height reminds me about tire sizes that was mentioned earlier. I still have the original junker tires and plan to replace them for next season. My 2019 2108ds has the adjustable height, and it's been at the lowest setting since I bought it. But I think I can go to 15" wheels if I raise it. I don't really need the clearance, but I have noticed that higher speed-rated (whatever the terminology is) tires are available in 15" vs. 14".

Maybe this is moot for most of you guys since I thought I heard the newer models are no longer adjustable. But maybe they are high enough that you can pick your wheel size (at all the extra expense, of course).

[backtrack15]

Originally Posted by tinglett

Perhaps I should start a new thread, but the suspension height reminds me about tire sizes that was mentioned earlier. I still have the original junker tires and plan to replace them for next season. My 2019 2108ds has the adjustable height, and it's been at the lowest setting since I bought it. But I think I can go to 15" wheels if I raise it. I don't really need the clearance, but I have noticed that higher speed-rated (whatever the terminology is) tires are available in 15" vs. 14".

Maybe this is moot for most of you guys since I thought I heard the newer models are no longer adjustable. But maybe they are high enough that you can pick your wheel size (at all the extra expense, of course).

The newer ones are fixed at what I believe matches the height of the 2020 versions when at their highest setting (trailer frame highest, axles lowest). I'm pretty sure the newer tires are 235/75R15 (same size as 2020 models).

[Foothills83]

Originally Posted by backtrack15

The 2021a (prior to 8/2020) did have a 7000 GVWR. After 8/2020 they dropped the GVWR. I’ve explained it and ranted about it in a couple of threads already. I’m sorry you got caught with an early 2021b model. Later ones have 3000 lb axles and a 5500 GVWR.

Edit - Don’t worry too much about the axles. Dexter expects the individual axles in dual-axle trailers to occasionally support the whole axle load. Thus, each can handle 5000 lbs when going over speed bumps or curbs. Dexter would recommend these axles for trailers with GVWR up to 5500 lbs. Forest River uses these axles and, if your trailer had been built by them, it would have a GVWR close to 5700 lbs. They seem to account for the tongue weight and tire/wheel weight when setting their GVWR.

OK, another axle question. Quoting backtrack15 because I feel like he may have thoughts here.

Does anybody know what grease Dexter uses in these things from the factory? Or, better, whether the typical NLGI #2 Lucas Red and Tacky or similar is compatible with it? This is for my 2021b 1800BH with the 3k Dexter axles.

Here's what is prompting my question:
On our last (short) camping trip last month, which was about two hours each way, I noticed later in the drive each way that the trailer brakes were very grabby. They would grab and cause the whole rig to lurch right at the end of the stop just before coming to rest.

I adjust the TBC (a Tekonsha P3) each time I hook up. On both days, the brakes felt great early in the drive. Outbound I only noticed the grabbiness right before getting to camp, so I didn't really have time to mess with them. Inbound to home, I noticed it much earlier in the drive. No amount of tweaking settings (including adding or removing the "boost") seemed to address the issue. Outbound was a net uphill of about 4,000 feet and inbound was the reverse, so the brakes saw more action inbound.

I'm not 100% on it, but I suspect the grabbiness is related to the brakes heating up later in the drive through increased application, and particularly on a hotter day.

I've also seen a couple of posts on the Micro Minnie FB group from people who did a bearing repack relatively soon after purchasing a new MM and noting that there was surprisingly little grease packed in the bearings from the factory. I'm wondering--assuming that is the case with mine--if this could be contributing to heat buildup in the wheel, and therefore the brakes. Any thoughts on that?

That then leads back to my grease question. Between a crazy work schedule and various other reasons, I don't have sufficient time between now and leaving for a lengthy trip up the Oregon Coast for ten days starting Sunday to do a bearing repack. Pumping some grease into the wheel zerks is something I do have time for, however. I just want to make sure I use the right grease and that it's compatible with whatever is in there from the factory. (Yes yes, I know a full hand repack is the better option. If I felt like I had sufficient time to do it, I would. I just don't.)

I invite everybody's thoughts. Thanks in advance for your input.

[jwiebe]

Originally Posted by Foothills83

On our last (short) camping trip last month, which was about two hours each way, I noticed later in the drive each way that the trailer brakes were very grabby. They would grab and cause the whole rig to lurch right at the end of the stop just before coming to rest.

I adjust the TBC (a Tekonsha P3) each time I hook up. On both days, the brakes felt great early in the drive. Outbound I only noticed the grabbiness right before getting to camp, so I didn't really have time to mess with them. Inbound to home, I noticed it much earlier in the drive. No amount of tweaking settings (including adding or removing the "boost") seemed to address the issue. Outbound was a net uphill of about 4,000 feet and inbound was the reverse, so the brakes saw more action inbound.

I'm not 100% on it, but I suspect the grabbiness is related to the brakes heating up later in the drive through increased application, and particularly on a hotter day.

I've found the same thing, after driving for a bit the brakes get extremely grabby. Thought it might be my brake controller (Curt Echo) but I've played with the settings and can't seem to get it right. The nature of my 7-pin connector requires me to mount that controller transverse though, so it could be that.
Driving on the highway to XX destination I rarely notice it, but if I go through a town with repeated stops or something it really exacerbates the effect.

[Foothills83]

Interesting. Yeah, for me it wasn't grabby while cruising the highway. Even on CA 49, which is windy with lots of ups and downs through the Sierra Foothills. It was only when coming to a complete stop, or very close.

Just chatted with a buddy. He pointed out that it could easily just be stuff breaking in (in my case). I had recently had new pads (and front rotors) done on the tow vehicle and the trailer is pretty dang new.

Same buddy said he uses that Lucas red on his current and prior Rockwood and has always used the zerks without any issues. So I'm thinking I'm probably just going to go with that at this point.

Who knows if that solves the issue.

[jwiebe]

I thought that could be the case too, but not too sure. I should be past the break-in period.


Lippert has a drum brake break-in procedure that you could try, I've attached the document here.

[Foothills83]

Originally Posted by jwiebe

I thought that could be the case too, but not too sure. I should be past the break-in period.


Lippert has a drum brake break-in procedure that you could try, I've attached the document here.

Thanks. Seems like I've just generally driven it enough by now that the pads should be bedded in, but may still be worth a try.

[tinglett]

Any idea if a typical TPMS would show the tires getting hot if the brakes are also getting hot? Just curious. I haven't owned my TPMS long enough to see a connection, but perhaps the temps required would be way beyond what normal and abnormal braking would generate in the tire.

[Foothills83]

Originally Posted by tinglett

Any idea if a typical TPMS would show the tires getting hot if the brakes are also getting hot? Just curious. I haven't owned my TPMS long enough to see a connection, but perhaps the temps required would be way beyond what normal and abnormal braking would generate in the tire.

That's a really good thought.

I bought a TPMS a couple weeks back. Haven't put the sensors on yet.

Edit: Along the same lines, I have an IR thermometer that I mostly use with my little Ooni pizza oven (bought in April 2020 and highly recommend). Gonna throw that in the truck and get some readings off the brake drums here and there.

[tinglett]

Originally Posted by Foothills83

I have an IR thermometer

I did a little skimming over here: https://www.rvtiresafety.net/search/...%20Temperature and it seems the advice is to not worry so much about the temps via tpms systems. I need to read a lot more, though, but I did also see mention that an IR thermometer is a much better way to check on things. Maybe not a bad routine at fuel stops, etc. I suppose just holding your hand near the hub on each wheel will reveal if there is serious trouble.

[backtrack15]

Here is a link to the Dexter maintenance and service manual. Which includes a list of approved greases. I used the Mystic JT-6 on my last trailer when I repacked the Dexter bearings (mostly because it was easy for me to get). I haven't looked at this yet with the Micro Minnie.

I use an IR thermometer to check on the hubs occasionally (as best I can around the wheel). It's a nice thing to have in the truck and I'm happy if all four read roughly the same. It's very inexact, but I figure there will be a disparity between them if things are going really wrong.

[Foothills83]

Originally Posted by backtrack15

Here is a link to the Dexter maintenance and service manual. Which includes a list of approved greases. I used the Mystic JT-6 on my last trailer when I repacked the Dexter bearings (mostly because it was easy for me to get). I haven't looked at this yet with the Micro Minnie.

Awesome! Thanks. I looked in my packet of manuals for it yesterday evening, but I either missed it or the dealer/Winnie didn't include it.

Originally Posted by backtrack15

I use an IR thermometer to check on the hubs occasionally (as best I can around the wheel). It's a nice thing to have in the truck and I'm happy if all four read roughly the same. It's very inexact, but I figure there will be a disparity between them if things are going really wrong.

That's what I was thinking. Have a rough idea of where they probably should be and check them periodically.

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by backtrack15

Yes I did. CAT scale for the axles during our last trip was 4160, which makes me feel good since it is well below 5000 (total GAWR) and even further below the tire capacity (which is north of 8000 total). My loaded tongue weight is ~650. So that yields a total loaded trailer weight of 4810. There's not a ton of room there on GVWR (5000), but enough for me since I've added what I want to add. I do consider the GVWR that Winnebago assigned to be a BS number (driven by marketing and not engineering), but I'm happy to be below it nonetheless.

Curious if you actually weighed the tongue or it’s a calculated weight. I’m probably carrying as much as you are on the tongue, and if it was 650lbs, I’d be way over my tv RAWR. As it is, I’m just a hair over, so I’m guessing tongue weight is in the 550lb range. Also curious whether you need to add back in the tongue weight to trailer GVWR while towing, since that weight has been transferred to the tv by the WDH. If it’s necessary to add it back in, then my Cat scale trailer weight of 4640lbs would mean that I’m 200lbs over it’s 5000lb GVWR. If that’s the case, I’ve got a real beef with Winnebago for selling me a trailer with 2500lb axles.

[backtrack15]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Curious if you actually weighed the tongue or it’s a calculated weight. I’m probably carrying as much as you are on the tongue, and if it was 650lbs, I’d be way over my tv RAWR. As it is, I’m just a hair over, so I’m guessing tongue weight is in the 550lb range. Also curious whether you need to add back in the tongue weight to trailer GVWR while towing, since that weight has been transferred to the tv by the WDH. If it’s necessary to add it back in, then my Cat scale trailer weight of 4640lbs would mean that I’m 200lbs over it’s 5000lb GVWR. If that’s the case, I’ve got a real beef with Winnebago for selling me a trailer with 2500lb axles.

I measured the tongue weight using a Sherline tongue weight scale. You could certainly do it by making two trips over a CAT scale (one without the trailer and one with the trailer but no WDH bars installed). The difference in the truck weights between those two passes would be the tongue weight. I think you have lithium batteries mounted under the bed while I have lead acid up on the tongue. I also have 30lb propane tanks (not sure about you).

The GVWR for the trailer is the max total weight for the trailer, so it includes the axle loads and the tongue load. Your 4640 axle load is good because it is below the limits of the axles (5000). The GVWR of your trailer is artificially low (marketing BS), so yes it seems you are a touch over it. That being said, I'm not personally concerned with the GVWR (value is not based on engineering). I am currently under GVWR, but my personal "hard limit" is that I won't exceed a total axle load of 5000.

Edit - note that the WDH will project some of the tongue load back to the trailer axles. Your 4640 includes this, which is good (need to stay below 5000). The two-pass method over the scale would eliminate that variable in terms of measuring your actual trailer weight vs GVWR.

[Marine359]

Thanks, makes sense Backtrack.
You’re carrying a lot more weight over the triangle. I only have 2x 20lb bottles and tool chest with about 15lbs of ground tackle. To get below RAWR, I’ve had to move my extra 20lb propane bottle and generator from truck bed to the pass thru. I don’t know what percentage of pass thru weight goes to the tongue. I haven’t weighed again yet, but by doing that and carrying my 7 gal water jug under the dinette, I think I’ll get under RAWR. 550lb tongue weight is right at 12% of trailer scale weight.

[backtrack15]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Thanks, makes sense Backtrack.
You’re carrying a lot more weight over the triangle. I only have 2x 20lb bottles and tool chest with about 15lbs of ground tackle. To get below RAWR, I’ve had to move my extra 20lb propane bottle and generator from truck bed to the pass thru. I don’t know what percentage of pass thru weight goes to the tongue. I haven’t weighed again yet, but by doing that and carrying my 7 gal water jug under the dinette, I think I’ll get under RAWR. 550lb tongue weight is right at 12% of trailer scale weight.

This all sounds good. The other thing you can do for the truck's rear axle load is use your WDH to project more weight forward/back.