Micro Minnie FLX Xantrex/Go Power! Parameters

[SactoSteve]

New hypothesis,…sep 16

I believe the FLX solar charger battery wiring “intersects” with the “solar on the side” wiring and enters a junction box on the frame. This seems to be in sync with the 2108ds wiring diagram developed on the Micro minnie wiring diagram thread

NOTE: The micro minnie wiring diagram does not include the FLX elements; solar panels, solar charger, inverter/charger, battery breaker and lithionics battery.
These diagrams, although not for the FLX implementation, indicate a possible pathway for integration of the FLX elements. Notably the intersection of the “solar on the side” with the junction box.

Junction box
Lots going on here but basically the “always powered” elements; jack, stabilizers, slide? Are connected from here and then to the battery positive terminal.
For the FLX I suspect they connect to the battery through the bottom terminal of the 250 amp breaker. When the breaker is closed the battery powers these elements directly (not through fuse box, just the inline fuses) and also would be the pathway to charge the battery. (I’ll come back to this) I fully suspect the other (non cable size) wire that connects to the lower terminal goes to the fuse panel.

However,…
the UL requirement for management of the high capacity Lithionics battery requires a UL rated breaker to isolate the battery COMPLETELY. This makes the FLX implementation different from most “normal” RV solar implementations where the battery can be isolated from loads, but is always connected to Solar charger for “trickle” charging.

This would explain the storage requirements identified by Lithionics for long term storage, battery disconnected by breaker,
-

• If the battery needs to be stored for > 3 months the voltage should be 13.2V (50% state-of-charge) and stored at the recommended storage specifications shown above. Additionally, the battery needs at least one charge & discharge cycle every six months

.
The battery is isolated by the breaker, there is no trickle charging possible.
Also explains the powering of 12v loads (via solar charger) during daylight.

So,… operationally one should never throw the breaker, except for long term storage, and then remember to charge it every 6 months.

[Minnie Honu]

I wanted to thank you Steve and other posters! I just bought a 2108TB FLX and did not know much about the electrical system. I have been learning a lot by reading your posts.

I did have a question for this thread.

We took the trailer out for its maiden voyage last weekend. No real problems after 2 days.

On the second night I decided to plug into 30amp shore power to test that system. The inverter fans kicked on, and I did not think anything of it. After about 30 minutes of being plugged in, I received an 04 error (overtemperature) on the Xantrex along with an audible beep. The battery seemed to charge really fast, going from approximately 40% to 55%. The ambient temperature outside was around 50F and nighttime. The bay doors were closed and I had misc. containers in the "basement" near the inverter and battery, but not solidly packed in there. I did have a surge protector on the 30amp line that said there were no problems.

I unplugged from shore power, and emptied that side of the basement, placing a small fan in there to ventilate the space. I did not experience any other problems after that, however I did not plug back in. The only thing on or plugged in was the refrigerator.

Any thoughts on this problem or helpful things to check?

Again, thanks so much for all of your information!!

Keith

[Marine359]

Your Xantrex 3000XC is capable of sending 100 amps to your batteries. And 100amps puts stress on your cables. I think you’ve got 200ah LFP, so they’re capable of accepting 100 amps, but that much charge amperage creates a lot of heat. I’ve got a Xantrex XC2000 capable of 80amps charge, but I rarely set the charge amperage to more than 60amps. I suggest you reduce charge amperage to 80 amps or less. You’ll be able to charge up quickly, but with far less heat from the Xantrex. Also helpful to open pass-thru doors when charging at high amps. The Xantrex fans are powerful and will blow the heat out. You’ve got to do some experimenting with your Xantrex to get dialed in. Open the app and set the charge amperage to 60 amps. See if there’s a difference. Then try 80 amps.

[SactoSteve]

Hello Keith welcome and congratulations on the new FLX-

I’m assuming you’ve verified the GoPower charger settings and the Xantrex Setting are what we believe to be “correct”?

Pure speculation here, we’ve used the inverter every time we’ve gone out and haven’t had any alarms.

We have had the Battery take it’s self off line, which definitely puts you out of commission. I don’t know the cause but I chased an overtemp theory and GoPower tech thought the discrepancy between the GoPower battery temp reading and the lithionics app reported temp were too large. They supplied me with a new temp sensor. When I started the replacement I found the GoPower sensor was just dangling below the charger. I since attached the sensor to the side of the battery (just taped it to the side of the battery) and the GoPower reading and the Lithionics reported readings align. I noticed the Xantrex inverter/charger has a temp sensor input but we have no remote probe. The environmental operation range for the battery and the GoPower charger are quite large and I don’t think the issue, but the GoPower charger does use battery temp in its charging algorithm and thinks seem more stable with the probe installed correctly. I’m now thinking it might have been an over charge situation?FYI Without any probe connected the GoPower charger uses 25*C as its default.

Not very helpful, but thats all I can think of, at the moment.

-Steve

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by Marine359

I think you’ve got 200ah LFP, so they’re capable of accepting 100 amps, but that much charge amperage creates a lot of heat.

Jim, just as a FYI, the FLX trailers have 320ah of batteries made by Lithionics.

[SactoSteve]

The E04, as you no doubt have read, is an inverting state overtemp condition. The note with the warning says “ Reduce the loads connected to the AC outlet of the unit. Check that the ventilation grille is not blocked.
Check for ambient temperature and move the unit to a cooler location whenever possible.”
The high end ambient operating range is 140*F, so I doubt the “basement” is exceeding that normally 140* is pretty hot!
I’m curious about a couple of things:
What AC loads were active? Microwave and Air Conditioner are about the heaviest I can think of.
The battery high temp range is 131*F I believe it would shut down before the Xantrex. Of course if the BMS shut things down I “think” you’d lose all power? I don’t think shorepower only is an operational mode with the battery “offline”?

I have had the xantrex shut down when using 15amp home power (with the xantrex set at the 30amp default.

So,…
Something blocking the Xantrex fans?
Severe AC load?

Curious.
-Steve

[Marine359]

Watching the WBGO video on the Xantrex, it appears it is surrounded by luan panels. Might be helpful to cut duct sized holes on each end of the enclosure. Although I only have a 2000x Xantrex, I also open the pass thru doors when I’m on 15 amp using high amperage stuff, as this seems to activate the fans.

[Minnie Honu]

Hello!

Thank you again everyone for the help!!

It was very odd. It was around 9 at night in Colorado, about 50 degrees Fahrenheit outside. I did have a couple of plastic bins near the battery and inverter but they were not packed in tight. The basement doors were closed. We were outside around the camp fire. Only thing running was the refrigerator. We had been camping for 2 days so the food and fridge were already cold.

When I heard the beeping, I saw the error code. I opened the basement doors and took the plastic bins out. The air near the inverter was warm, but not "hot" It felt similar to the air near a desktop computer that is running. I unplugged the rig from the shore power. As I said earlier, I was just seeing how this system ran so it had only been plugged in to 30amp shore power for about 30 minutes.

I had plugged it in before to my house. Based on all of your informative posts, I had to change the grid breaker rating to 10 because it was tripping the breaker in my house. After that it worked fine. Prior to going on the maiden voyage, I changed the grid breaker setting back to 30.

My Go Power sensor is dangling under the unit and not near the battery.

Thank you again for all of the responses! I really appreciate it.

Keith

[SactoSteve]

Keith & Jim-
What a head scratcher!

Jim, what would heat the xantrex up when on shore power with no loads? Its only function, as I understand it is to condition shore power and possibly charge the battery. I don’t know what the xantrex charging algorithm takes into consideration in determining the charging? Does it always charge at max amps? 150 for the Lithionics.
I assume it has some cutoff criteria?
Regarding air flow, the xantrex fans seem quite capable and there is *no* top on the luan surround. The pass through can get quite warm with no ventilation, but 140?

Keith, just grasping at straws, and don’t know if it plays a part, but do you happen to know the battery state of charge when you plugged in shore power?

Scratching head,
-Steve

[Minnie Honu]

Steve,

If I remember correctly. The battery on the lithionics app was "orange" at around 30 or so percent. It charged very quickly to give or take 50%. I was attributing that to the heat. I did not know if that was common as that was the first time plugging it into 30amp service. That, coupled with the heat warning on the Xantrex made me think it was charging "too fast" if that can be a thing. Obviously I am new to this so I did not have anything to compare it to.

Keith

[Trax]

I have charged from 40% to full in warmer weather with no issue. I was using a generator so maybe not quite the same charge current but the battery app showed 130A charge current. The fridge is 12V so that shouldn’t have added to the inverter’s load. I also had some miscellaneous items stored around the inverter enclosure. Seems like a potential inverter issue. Might be worth a call to Xantrex customer service.

[RovingMedics]

we're also in the Sacramento area like Steve is and I had no problems charging ours from shore power when it was 95f outside. the temp in the 'basement' was reading way hotter, and nothing tripped.

can you grab screenshots of what your Xantrex app has for settings?

[Downytide]

Originally Posted by RovingMedics

we're also in the Sacramento area like Steve is and I had no problems charging ours from shore power when it was 95f outside. the temp in the 'basement' was reading way hotter, and nothing tripped.

can you grab screenshots of what your Xantrex app has for settings?

Is it possible it has to do with the amperage? I've noticed when charging at home from the plugs, the BMS temp never got too hot, but once at a hook up site with the 30amp, the BMS got pretty warm and the battery's cooling fan was on full blast.

I'm planning to add another battery to the system in Spring, what is the general consensus on how to do this and what brand of battery to buy? ideally I'd like to add another 320ah battery from Lithionics, but the costs seems bit high and open to suggestions.

[creativepart]

I'm sure you can add "other" batteries but Lithionics and Winnebago will tell you to ONLY add another identical battery. And, while it costs more I think it's probably prudent to only add an identical battery due to the monitoring and reporting that Lithionics batteries do in your system.

[SactoSteve]

Still scratching head on this.
I think the inverter is hot not the battery?
Like the alarm message says check the fans for blockage.
the luan surround is fairly easy to unscrew and slide away on the Xantrex side, a bit more care needed on the battery side. It would not surprise me at all if some assembly debris could be blocking the fans.
I have not contacted anyone at Xantrex myself but all comments I have read or heard say they are VERY helpful.
https://xantrex.com/support/get-customer-support/

please let us know what you find or hear from Xantrex.

good luck,
-steve

[Minnie Honu]

Thanks so much for the suggestions!! I will contact xantrex and let you know. Ill also check the fans to make sure nothing is blocking them.

Keith

[Downytide]

Originally Posted by creativepart

I'm sure you can add "other" batteries but Lithionics and Winnebago will tell you to ONLY add another identical battery. And, while it costs more I think it's probably prudent to only add an identical battery due to the monitoring and reporting that Lithionics batteries do in your system.

Well, fellas, I spoke to Lithionics, specifically Mike, and they are working on add-a battery kit for our model, it'll be plug and play!

[SactoSteve]

Well, that should smooth the “upgrade” path. Thanks for informing us!

As someone whose intended use was/is convenience when using state and federal campgrounds we’re thinking the FLX solar is more than adequate.
It’s really none of my business, but I’m curious what the intended use cases are for folks wanting to add another FLX capacity battery?

[Downytide]

Originally Posted by SactoSteve

Well, that should smooth the “upgrade” path. Thanks for informing us!

As someone whose intended use was/is convenience when using state and federal campgrounds we’re thinking the FLX solar is more than adequate.
It’s really none of my business, but I’m curious what the intended use cases are for folks wanting to add another FLX capacity battery?

So it won't run out, or reduce the chance.

We are in Ontario, so we camp at provincial parks, some spots tend to have zero sun exposure, our last trip was 4 days and during those 4 days we had generated no power via the solar panels, and generators sometimes are only allowed during specific time/season/spots.

We left the house with 92% on Day 1, it rain most day, we only had the fridge on until day 2, and we use batteries powered lights inside, it was around 8c or 46f during the day, and near freezing over night, so we would have the heater on whenever we are inside, the battery reached 20% on Day 4 morning, which then shuts itself off completely.

But, couldn't asked for a more beautiful setting:

[naturopath]

Originally Posted by SactoSteve

Keith & Jim-
What a head scratcher!

Jim, what would heat the xantrex up when on shore power with no loads? Its only function, as I understand it is to condition shore power and possibly charge the battery. I don’t know what the xantrex charging algorithm takes into consideration in determining the charging? Does it always charge at max amps? 150 for the Lithionics.
I assume it has some cutoff criteria?
Regarding air flow, the xantrex fans seem quite capable and there is *no* top on the luan surround. The pass through can get quite warm with no ventilation, but 140?

Keith, just grasping at straws, and don’t know if it plays a part, but do you happen to know the battery state of charge when you plugged in shore power?

Scratching head,
-Steve

Check the outlets in the RV. The electricity is dirty as hell with very dangerous levels of noise. The Xantrex is known to produce tons of dirty electricity! If it is there to condition the power then we would be better off if it just passed it through without touching it!