Micro Minnie FLX Xantrex/Go Power! Parameters - Page 4

SactoSteve · 08-19-2022, 10:40 PM

Temp Specs

Lithionics Battery Temp Range: 32F/0C to 131F/55C (charging)

GoPower! Charger Temp Range: -31F/-35°C ~ 113F/45°C

Looks like I'm routinely over temp on the charger.
It does get hot in the pass through, but mounting the charger against the outside wall doesn't seem a great design? In fairness, the trailer sits on pavement facing south exposed to the (brutal) summertime Sacramento sun.

I'll jury-rig some shade but longer term some component relocation, and ventilation seems prudent. Venting the pass-through seems daunting.

I'm not currently planning on tackling this situation, but I'd be interested in any thoughts on potential mods.

-steve

SactoSteve · 08-21-2022, 02:53 PM

Part 2 of Hot down there

In my effort to keep the solar charger from overheating I provided some shade over the front of the trailer where the controller is. I was probably too late in the day to provide any benefit. Still exceeding the high temp point.

Today I thought I’d just go into “storage” mode by powering down the battery. Well it doesn’t do what I expected. The battery is no longer accessible from the app but otherwise there appears to be no change; solar charger operates, power still on in the trailer. I was hoping to turn off the solar charger to prevent it overheating. No joy.
So then I thought I’d throw the main breaker. No observable change from above.
The storage modes mentioned in the lithionics manual seem to have no system effect.

Am I missing something?

-steve

RovingMedics · 08-22-2022, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SactoSteve

Part 2 of Hot down there

In my effort to keep the solar charger from overheating I provided some shade over the front of the trailer where the controller is. I was probably too late in the day to provide any benefit. Still exceeding the high temp point.

Today I thought I’d just go into “storage” mode by powering down the battery. Well it doesn’t do what I expected. The battery is no longer accessible from the app but otherwise there appears to be no change; solar charger operates, power still on in the trailer. I was hoping to turn off the solar charger to prevent it overheating. No joy.
So then I thought I’d throw the main breaker. No observable change from above.
The storage modes mentioned in the lithionics manual seem to have no system effect.

Am I missing something?

-steve

interesting. I had not tried that mode yet but that is not the behavior that I had expected. Are you otherwise just leaving yours on 24/7? to keep the fridge running? That's how ours has been since we got it but it's getting towards the end of the season and, well, "Winter is Coming." lol.

SactoSteve · 08-22-2022, 10:44 AM

Hello Roving Medics
I am greatly baffled by this behavior. To the point of thinking the system in not installed correctly.
Could I trouble you to see if your system behaves the same.
When I power off the battery (blue Led) I still have DC voltage in the trailer.
When I also power off the circuit breaker, I also still have power in the trailer.
This is counter to what I interpret from the Lithionics install manual.
Thanks, steve

**creativepart** · 08-22-2022, 11:12 AM

Steve, I'm not sure why you are worried about this. I get it that some spec says ~113 degrees and it gets that hot or hotter there. But I don't believe it's a safety issue or really any issue at all.

Sacramento may get hot but there are these units operating if much, much hotter places without any issues.

Do yourself a favor and contact GoPower support and ask - I'll bet they say "No Problem" I think you may be worrying about this for no reason.

SactoSteve · 08-22-2022, 11:25 AM

I’ve sent an inquiry to winnebago about the power off behavior.
Also email exchanges with GoPower! About the over temp conditions with the charger that got me to the power down issue.

GoPower! Replied:
“ The storage temperature of the device is -35C to 75C or -31F to 167F.”
And
-35°C ~ 45°C or -31F ~ 113F
“is the operating range so the temperature range for normal charging. Above that it may start to de-rate.”

So for now, leaving things on, fridge and whatever parasitic 12v loads. Inverter off.

- steve
New spare tire cover, with our trailering “motto”. Haha

SactoSteve · 08-22-2022, 11:29 AM

I suspect you are right, but just to clarify the charger app is showing 129F the pass through is “just” 113F. ��

**creativepart** · 08-22-2022, 11:40 AM

So, the only possible issue is the charging function may be less efficient when it's over temp. But actual temp range is over 165 degrees.

I'm sure someone at Winnebago knows about the FLX system and it's configuration but actually getting a response from that person or persons is probably very hit or miss.

SactoSteve · 08-22-2022, 11:45 AM

Both statements seem to be true! haha
I'm more concerned with the Storage mode/power off situation. Have inquiry in with Winnebago.
-steve

**creativepart** · 08-22-2022, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SactoSteve

I'm more concerned with the Storage mode/power off situation. Have inquiry in with Winnebago.

If it's like my OEM solar configuration - the solar panels are always live even when everything else is off because the solar controller is direct connected to the batteries. So, there is nothing to turn off on the solar for storage. At least that's what I think you were concerned about - but I could have that wrong.

Depending on your charge controller's functions, you might want to be able to turn off the solar charger IF the temps fall below freezing. But I think many of the controllers on the market today will automatically stop charging LiPo batteries at what ever temp you set in the configuration.

SactoSteve · 08-22-2022, 02:02 PM

Received confirmation from GoPower! That the values I’ve been seeing are not detrimental to the charger, but the output power will be derated.
The “storage mode” issue is different, but presented itself in exploring the temp issue.
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3924728

**creativepart** · 08-22-2022, 02:09 PM

Is that attached image of the instructions for the Solar Charge Controller? I assumed that was for the Lithionics battery, but then I can't see the entire document.

SactoSteve · 08-22-2022, 02:37 PM

Its for the battery.

SactoSteve · 08-22-2022, 02:44 PM

lithionics says the circuit breaker disconnects loads from the battery. I suppose that doesn’t preclude the charger from still being connected to loads? But I don’t think so. What does solar always live mean?

**creativepart** · 08-22-2022, 03:40 PM

Loads... yes, but your solar charge controller isn't a load.

As long as the sun is shinning on the solar panels your solar charge controller is putting amps into your battery bank. No matter if the "system" is off and in storage (assuming non-covered storage).

If your batteries are fully charged the solar charge controller is smart enough to just maintain the float voltage.

The solar charger is always "live". It's always receiving power output by the rooftop cells and it's converting that voltage into current (amps). When the sun goes down or your RV is under cover the charge controller isn't "off" it just has no power coming in for it to output.

You never turn the solar panels or charge controller off. It just does it's thing all the time. (When working on your batteries you can disable charging, or disconnect from batteries, or even cover the solar panels. But other than that. It's always on.)

SactoSteve · 08-22-2022, 05:18 PM

I “get” the solar charger putting out “power” to the system when the sun is shining. I don’t “get” where the solar charger output goes when the battery is in storage mode. These are modes of the battery, not storage location.
It appears there are 2 “storage” modes; 1. battery off and 2. battery off & breaker thrown.
It also appears to be a discrepancy between the install and user manual, and the description of the “standard BMS” notably only the standard BMS says battery must be on to receive charge! Important piece of the puzzle.

Regardless, with the breaker thrown (off) I believe there should be no power to the trailer. But there is. Just went out and checked, cuz I’m thinking I might be losing it.

Third picture, battery off (no blue led light ring on button), breaker thrown off (down position), led light at far end of trailer illuminated. Therefore, loads are not isolated.
With just the battery off and breaker on (up position) loads are still powered. (Not really surprising, I guess.

Something’s amiss.

A breaker that doesn’t function seems problematic.

Like I said, inquiry submitted to Winnebago.
- steve

Thanks, for listening and helping me ponder.

RovingMedics · 08-24-2022, 01:23 PM

That is a great question and I can see why you're curious about it. Strange. We are getting ready to head out with the FLX for a 12 day trip up into the Nevada desert so I can't do *too* much troubleshooting/testing at the moment, but I'm also curious about that.

I wonder if they are considering "long term storage" to be "disconnected from everything and put into a closet somewhere." The parameters for storage seem like they'd be difficult to obtain with a trailer in a storage yard somewhere. Below 86f? that's kind of difficult up here. lol.

RovingMedics · 08-24-2022, 05:07 PM

Also SactoSteve, check this out. All I did today was plug in the Renogy 200w panel. If I unplug it, the wattage drops by like 100-120. interesting.

getting a lot of bang for the buck with this extra panel.

the battery BMS still says it's 95f, but my GoPower controller says 122f. odd because they're both in the same compartment!

I went to put an actual thermometer out there but the only I had was for a fridge and it topped out at 80f. lol.

Edit: battery is at 39% because I left the AC on for a couple hours. I'm just letting the solar panels recharge it some for now, will plug into shore power when the sun goes down.

RovingMedics · 08-24-2022, 05:23 PM

oh yeah SactoSteve, I also noticed that your GoPower app is showing a battery temperature. How did you get that? Mine doesn't show one.

also a little strange that the existing 2 x 190w solar panels aren't getting more than 100w today. I know the sun moved off to the West a little bit, but not *that* much. the movable Renogy one is doing the lion's share of the work today.

SactoSteve · 08-24-2022, 06:33 PM

Quote:

oh yeah SactoSteve, I also noticed that your GoPower app is showing a battery temperature. How did you get that? Mine doesn't show one.

I was about to ask you about that. In email exchanges with GoPower I mentioned seeing a discrepancy between the controller temp and battery temp. The GoPower tech was curious about that and asked for an example. I gave him a few sets and he said there shouldn’t be such a discrepancy, thought it was probably the battery sensor and offered to send me a replacement. I didn’t think too much about it until i got it today (yeah, next day delivery!) Anyway, turns out this sensor is supposed to be NonElectrically attached to the battery. Sounds like you don’t have one, ours has one but it hangs out the bottom of the controller reporting ambient pass through temperature. Both are incorrect and inefficient. The controller uses the battery temp to calculate how much charge it can receive therefore how much the controller can/should provide. The arrow is pointing to the sensor that attaches to the battery (somewhere/somehow) (Google Xantrex battery sensor issues for discussion of possible catastrophic failure modes. Different Xantrex product but explains the issue)

I thought I was getting somewhere with this FLX solar package, and I suppose we are but at this point I’ve sent an inquiry to WTOW and contacted Service in Davis to get this sorted out.