Micro Minnie FLX Xantrex/Go Power! Parameters

[tcaudle2001]

Quick hit here...

Things have been charging all day pretty well...now it is evening and Go Power shows 0 watts of solar. Makes sense...

Xantrex is showing 2A (red) Current and 26.3W (red) Power. I assume this means that something is drawing on the battery and that red is a negative. Photo below.

My guess is that even though I have the G/E Fridge on "Off" on the dial in the fridge...it is still technically on and drawing some power and that (plus the TV standby and the microwave clock) are responsible for that load....

So, tomorrow morning, should I expect to see the battery drop down to maybe 54%? I should start a pool....

[SactoSteve]

Simply put, had I known that I would only get a day or even two days (and not 5) of off-grid usage from the FLX, I would not have purchased it. I would have purchased a cheaper unit and had a proper system installed by an after market shop. For the delta in cost between the FLX series and the lesser models, this could have easily been done with more power and no need for the hands-on troubleshooting.

My take is that winnebago hit it out of the park with the Micro Minnie 2108 FLX! However, I think any credit due should go to the floor plan design, and their product integration. The truma components are just top notch design capability and quality. The solar/electrical system is proving capable, robust and tolerant. Here the credit goes completely to the triad of Lithionics, GoPower and Xantrex. Who the integrating contractor was?, I wish I knew!

On the downside,…
Fit and finish, assembly quality, communication and over all knowledge of their product seem to be of no importance to winnebago Towables. Coupled with a similar lack of capability and care at the dealer/service level of even the basics of towables (like slide out mechanism intricacies, or holding tank electronics) and you have an industry that just doesn’t care.
Not being prepared for the release of the FLX line at the factory and dealer/service level (aside from slick marketing) indicates a lack of concern or respect for customers.

Its the wild west!

Just one mans opinion.
-steve

[SactoSteve]

except for storage mode, the battery is never off and is always connected to 12v loads. The battery itself is a load, which can include the battery’s internal heaters. Xantrex on in “boondock” mode, even with no inverter operation, is a load.

- steve

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by tcaudle2001

My aim is to get it up to 100%... microwave clock and TV standby being the only load on the system. Fridge is off. Then, my hope and expectation is that I won't see any drop in charge percentage over night.

Then, it's on to seeing how long we can use the a/c on a trip...how long the kids can watch the tv... can we make a couple of bags of popcorn... can we keep the fridge on cool...etc.

My fear is that even with what I would consider to be mild usage...and even in the warm California sun throughout the day... we're not going to get anywhere near 5 days of off rid capability.

Of course companies are going to puff up their claims... but this is from the horse's mouth... "With a full suite of factory-installed, integrated technology to provide at home comfort when connected and for up to five days when disconnected."...

No asterisk. No small print. No disclaimers. If it'll go 4 days... okay, then maybe its a colorable claim. But if we users are not getting even a single day out of modest usage off the grid... well, I'm no lawyer (wait...actually I am a lawyer)...that sounds like false advertising to me. it's really no different in substance than Porsche/VW's false claims about their gas mileage.

So, setting aside the horrible customer service side of things in terms of putting out this supposedly integrated system to the public in a half-a$$ manner and relying on SactoSteve and his merry band of electrical engineers...I think Winnebago potentially has a real problem on their hands.

Simply put, had I known that I would only get a day or even two days (and not 5) of off-grid usage from the FLX, I would not have purchased it. I would have purchased a cheaper unit and had a proper system installed by an after market shop. For the delta in cost between the FLX series and the lesser models, this could have easily been done with more power and no need for the hands-on troubleshooting.

Okay...sorry...just super annoyed - yet, again, incredibly thankful to SactoSteve and the others for sussing all of this stuff out...

Hi TCaudle,
We don’t have a FLX because we bought new about six months before the FLX was released. I’ve lusted for a FLX ever since. We’ve upgraded, but the Truma components on the FLX are not available on the aftermarket. I’m a little surprised that you’re not getting five days in the California sun. Of course, everybody has their own style of camping. Ours is to conserve as much battery as possible when boondocking. Just some ideas for you to consider here.

We have 170ah LFP, 300w on the roof, 100w portable, 2000w Xantrex, and a compressor fridge. We do get five days in the not always so sunny east coast weather. But we are conscious of battery. One trick you may or may not be aware of is that the Xantrex on standby will “wake up” whenever an ac load is detected. Even in standby, it uses copious amounts of your dc resource. We solved it by installing a disconnect switch between the inverter and our bus bars. So, as soon as we set up for boondocking, I shut off the disconnect to the inverter. The fridge (set to eco mode) still uses its 50ah every day, but that’s more than replaced by the 1 Kw we can generate on a sunny day. If you’re bringing in over 80ah and the fridge uses 50, you’ve still got 30ah for everything else. Obviously, we can’t run the A/C, but we can sparingly use some ac appliances if needed by switching on the inverter for a short period. Another conservation method we use is to watch tv on our iPad. It uses less than one-tenth the power as the ac tv in our camper, and it can be recharged easily with a small powerstation. Powerstation gets tossed in the tv for recharging while we are on excursions. Popcorn and blow dryer verboten while boondocking.

In cold weather during shoulder season, with furnace usage, battery heater, and some use from tank heaters, we only get two days.

[tcaudle2001]

We're at 49% as of this morning. So, lost 7% overnight with "nothing on". I wonder what it would have been if the fridge were set to "Cool" and we watched a movie.

Does the 7% seem normal in a "nothing on" scenario?

[Marine359]

Your Xantrex will use in standby 2-3 amps per hour unless you turn it off. So a loss of 7% SOC would be about normal.

[tcaudle2001]

10-4. Thanks.

[SactoSteve]

7% overnight drop is also what we see in the parked "inactive" state. that is parked in the open at home not in use.

-steve

[tcaudle2001]

Perfect. Thanks Steve. Come on SF...I need some of that Sacto sun today to get this up to 100%. Hhaa.

[RovingMedics]

Originally Posted by SactoSteve

The solar/electrical system is proving capable, robust and tolerant. Here the credit goes completely to the triad of Lithionics, GoPower and Xantrex. Who the integrating contractor was?, I wish I knew!

I read that Winnebago recently acquired Lithionics, so I wonder if the integration will improve in future models. I sure hope that it does!

I am also still curious about the Xantrex branding I see people having screenshots of. Where did that come from?

you're the only other FLX owner I know near Sacramento, so I was curious how yours was holding up!

[SactoSteve]

Wow! Don’t know what to think about winnebago buying Lithionics? 😯

Hows the Micro Minnie holding up? Well, had to cancel a planned and booked 3 wk trip through SW Utah this March - April. 2 days before we were scheduled to leave slide room started acting up long and short of it wouldn’t fully extend or retract. Just got the work finished. Seems to be working. Diagnosis left me less than confident in the RV service industry. Top bearing block loose and gouging tracks. Root cause unknown but the sealing tape on the slide room roof extended past the top black (track?) on the failed side. As the room was moved in and out it peeled back and spread very sticky backing on the rubber “flaps”. No idea if this was the cause. Nobody cares about root cause, or even how the Schwintek (now Lippert) inwall slide mechanism works, just replace the parts! Seems to be the industry business model.

Did run across a very knowledgeable mobile tech via my YouTube research My RV Works

How’s yours holding up? BTW apparently the shop in Davis no longer is a service location.
- Steve

[Downytide]

Originally Posted by tcaudle2001

I wanted to chime in here and say thanks to SactoSteve for all of the hours and hours and hours of time spent to figure this out for everyone.

After a subpar maiden trip this past weekend with our FLX, I turned to the interwebs after having a not super helpful conversation with a rep at Winnebago Towables.

This morning, I implemented all of the settings corrections (honestly there really aren't that many things to adjust) to the system, and it has been dutifully charging via solar throughout the day. I am at about 60%, but that's not too bad given that the sun didn't come out until noon.

My aim is to get it up to 100%... microwave clock and TV standby being the only load on the system. Fridge is off. Then, my hope and expectation is that I won't see any drop in charge percentage over night.

Then, it's on to seeing how long we can use the a/c on a trip...how long the kids can watch the tv... can we make a couple of bags of popcorn... can we keep the fridge on cool...etc.

My fear is that even with what I would consider to be mild usage...and even in the warm California sun throughout the day... we're not going to get anywhere near 5 days of off rid capability.

Of course companies are going to puff up their claims... but this is from the horse's mouth... "With a full suite of factory-installed, integrated technology to provide at home comfort when connected and for up to five days when disconnected."...

No asterisk. No small print. No disclaimers. If it'll go 4 days... okay, then maybe its a colorable claim. But if we users are not getting even a single day out of modest usage off the grid... well, I'm no lawyer (wait...actually I am a lawyer)...that sounds like false advertising to me. it's really no different in substance than Porsche/VW's false claims about their gas mileage.

So, setting aside the horrible customer service side of things in terms of putting out this supposedly integrated system to the public in a half-a$$ manner and relying on SactoSteve and his merry band of electrical engineers...I think Winnebago potentially has a real problem on their hands.

Simply put, had I known that I would only get a day or even two days (and not 5) of off-grid usage from the FLX, I would not have purchased it. I would have purchased a cheaper unit and had a proper system installed by an after market shop. For the delta in cost between the FLX series and the lesser models, this could have easily been done with more power and no need for the hands-on troubleshooting.

Okay...sorry...just super annoyed - yet, again, incredibly thankful to SactoSteve and the others for sussing all of this stuff out...

We went almost 4 days on one charge, that's no solar charging due to weather, fridge was on for about first 2 days, no a/c, but furnace was on every night, started the trip with about 92% charge, by 4th day the battery shut off about 2 hrs before leaving.

on sunny day, I've ran the a/c for about 2-3hrs and it used up about 25-30% battery.

I've successfully tested that you can charge these battery with bigger solar generator from ecoflow etc, but the real challenge is the black tank, there's no way the stock tank can hold out for 5 days for a small family, I've learned my lesson and got a transfer tank.

Originally Posted by SactoSteve

Wow! Don’t know what to think about winnebago buying Lithionics? 😯

Hows the Micro Minnie holding up? Well, had to cancel a planned and booked 3 wk trip through SW Utah this March - April. 2 days before we were scheduled to leave slide room started acting up long and short of it wouldn’t fully extend or retract. Just got the work finished. Seems to be working. Diagnosis left me less than confident in the RV service industry. Top bearing block loose and gouging tracks. Root cause unknown but the sealing tape on the slide room roof extended past the top black (track?) on the failed side. As the room was moved in and out it peeled back and spread very sticky backing on the rubber “flaps”. No idea if this was the cause. Nobody cares about root cause, or even how the Schwintek (now Lippert) inwall slide mechanism works, just replace the parts! Seems to be the industry business model.

Did run across a very knowledgeable mobile tech via my YouTube research My RV Works

How’s yours holding up? BTW apparently the shop in Davis no longer is a service location.
- Steve

Yea, I've learned from this time that servicing an RV is a crapshoot, I've also come to understanding the beauty of a trailer without slide out, I think when time comes, I hope can get this beauty.

https://youtu.be/Grg2789lsLM

[tcaudle2001]

Hello gang,

Well, it's evening... sunny most of the day. We're at 69%. Didn't use anything on the trailer today. We ended yesterday at 56%. So, a gain of 13% in 24 hours without using any electronics. Not impressive, but alas...that's only in about 6 hours of sunlight. We'll see where we end up tomorrow.

In the meantime, I had a lengthy exchange throughout the day with a Go Power rep who seemed to know his stuff. My aim was to understand which (if any) Go Power units I could plug into the super handy dandy "Solar-On-The-Side" port on the side of my rig...

You know, the one next to the marketing stickers on the outside of the rig. And the one that had two separate pamphlets/fliers that came with the rig. All indications being... you just go buy whichever one you want/can afford, plug it in, and you're good to go... you've increased your charging capabilities/speed.

Well, of course, after reading this full thread and focusing on the handful of posts that addressed the port on the side, I knew it wasn't that simple...

We established that my side port is wired into the controller as it had ~39 volts on the multimeter and because of this, I couldn't just plug in whatever option that I wanted to buy.

There was discussion around the roof being in series, and how the rig might get rewired to put everything in parallel, etc. A lot of that went over my head, but also...nothing in the literature that came with the rig that said I'd have to hire someone to rewire anything. So...we focused on the one option that he said would not require re-wiring...

He said that we I could purchase TWO standalone 200 watt (or 190 watt) panels, wire those two units in series via the basic cabling included, and that because that would equate to ~40volts, everything would be fine...

I was a bit surprised by this as it didn't sound like a super bad solution. That's 760 total watts of solar panels - woo hoo!..

So, I specifically asked: "And, maybe a dumb question... but you're saying I can plug in 2, 200-watt panels on the side port...and I am not going to blow up/piss off the inverter or battery? Or is that TBD. haha..."

And his response was: "Cable is rated for 20 amps so it should still be within spec."

I further clarified...

Okay. So, I am going to buy:

2 of these: https://www.amazon.com/Go-Power-Over.../dp/B00MJV75TM

1 of these: https://www.amazon.com/Vemote-Connec...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

And hopefully it all plays nicely together...."

And he responded in the affirmative, noting that I should get an extension cable if I want to be able to move the panels away from the rig.

Now... my instinct was to just robotically buy the two panels, plug them in and see what happens. Maybe the whole thing explodes, melts, or whatever...but then I thought.... I am a bit dubious about this 190watts x 4 panels concept...so, wanted to check in on what the experienced folks on this thread thought....

BTW... the panels he is proposing don't have built in stands, but I figure those would be easy to build.... or, just lean them against a tree.... ;-)

[tcaudle2001]

Can you elaborate on this part "bigger solar generator from ecoflow"...??

[Downytide]

Originally Posted by tcaudle2001

Can you elaborate on this part "bigger solar generator from ecoflow"...??

https://ca.ecoflow.com/products/delta-pro-portable-power-station?variant=40592650240154

It's more or less a giant battery bank, the larger ones (4kwh+) tend to have rv plug, so you can just plug it in and "dump" the electricity into the lithionics, they also charge pretty fast on AC, since our battery is about 4kwh, you essentially double the capacity.

[tcaudle2001]

Very cool! But also very expensive. I get the portability and easy of use...but I think I'd have to compare the cost of adding a second Lithionics battery to my setup. They look like they retail around $5k and I am imagining another $1,000 or so to get it wired up correctly...

[Downytide]

I got quote of $6000 for the battery, wiring is relatively easy.

The power bank is $4500 ish and portable, keep in mind that's all Canadian dollars.

[Marine359]

It’s imperative that you know the specs on your solar charge controller BEFORE you plug in any additional solar panels. If the controller is a 100/30 mppt, that means it can only accept up to 100vdc. Anything more will fry the controller. Panels are rated in Voc (voltage open circuit), and this is spec that you use to compute the total voltage of the rooftop array and the portable array. If you know how many volts your roof array is producing, simply subtract that number from the controller voltage rating to determine how much portable solar can be added and how it’s wired (serial or parallel). A 200w panel is going to have a Voc of at least 25vdc. If you wire two of those puppies is series, your portable array will be producing over 50vdc, which will more than likely destroy your controller. If you want to add 2x200w portable in series, you’re gonna need to buy a separate controller for them and rewire your solar on the side to that separate controller. But find out first whether your roof panels are in series or parallel and what their total Voc is. If they are in parallel, you can add more portables but you may exceed the controller output rating for amps. No harm would come to the controller, but it would be wasted energy, and wasted money for panels if you exceed the controller amperage output rating.

[tcaudle2001]

Thanks for the feedback Marine359.

The roof panels are wired in series. The controller is the Go Power 30A MPPT Solar Controller. Does that tell you whether it is a 100/30mppt? I’d have to check my pile of documentation, but I believe that when it comes to Go Power, the only manual that I have is for the display. Perhaps it gives the 100/30 (or other) indication on the unit? Inside the unit?

Voc (nor vdc) is listed in the Amazon listing specs. I will have to email the rep.

Hopefully this info is useful to some other than me...so I will post the response when I have it...

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by tcaudle2001

Does that tell you whether it is a 100/30mppt?

The 30-amp doesn't but the specs for the unit are "less than 100 volts."