Micro Minnie 2108 FLX - Electrical System Newbie Question

[souki83]

Hi all -

To all FLX owners, I'm about to become a new owner of a FLX 2108TB and I have a few questions on how the impressive electrical system works. I've read many threads and there's a lot of knowledgeable Winnie-owners that I'm sure will be able to help. The level of knowledge and sharing here is actually quite impressive. Thanks for this.

My questions are around different connection scenarios.

Towing the Minnie FLX
The Lithionics is being charged by the solar panels. Awesome. On normal rigs (Lead Acid or AGM batteries with converter/chargers), we also used to get power from the 7-way connector (not a big charge, but still, a charge). Do we still get a charge from the 7-way connector with the FLX inverter/charger? Should I have my Xantrex turned on while towing?

Using shore power only
Once at my camping site, let's assume that I plug my rig into the 30A shore outlet. When powered by shore power, do I need to have the Inverter/Charger turned on? Or will ALL interior/exterior outlets including the Air Conditioner be able to function even if the inverter is turned off. In short, can I completely bypass the Xantrex inverter/charger if I have no need to charge my Lithionic battery? One of the premise I'm using here is that my GoPower! MPTT solar controller is still active and will charge my Lithionic, even though the Xantrex is turned off - maybe that last premise is totally off based and wrong. Other question, what happens to my 12V fridge (or any other 12V load) is this case? On non-FLX rigs, the converter/charger would kick in (it's always on), the AC would be transformed into DC, and my battery would get charged. In this case, given the Xantrex is off, I believe my fridge (or any 12V load) will simply draw directly from the battery - just like when I was in transit. I'm basing this conclusion on the assumption that a converter/charger is absent from the FLX rig.

Using shore AND my Xantrex inverter/charger
Let's say it's been a rainy weekend and my battery has now reached 50%. Time to charge. I start my Xantrex via the control panel in the entrance (or phone?). At this point, the Xantrex realizes that my Lithionics is low and will start redirecting amps to the battery. Great, my battery is rapidly charging. At that point, what happens to everything running off 110V? I would hope that the inverter is smart enough to redirect the shore power directly to all my various 110V loads AND charge the Lithionic at the same time, right? In short, when shore power is plugged in, the Xantrex is essentially JUST a charger. Meanwhile, my solar panels remain active and still juice up the Lithionics.

Boondocking
Now, say I unplug shore power and the Xantrex is still turned on. At this point, I'm expecting the Xantrex inverter to kick in and power all my 12V DC and 110V AC appliances. I now need to be power smart and ensure I properly control my consumption of electrons. The Lithionics has 320Ah to give (quite amazing when you think about it), but it's not a nuclear plant.

That's it. Those are my newbie questions. Pretty sure you've all had those questions before. I'm reaching out because I find there's still a lot of confusion for FLX owners. Confusion that start at the dealership, in the documentation (or lack of), browsing over various sites, etc.

Hence why I'm reaching out to you.

Thanks,

[Marine359]

Hi Souki83,
I’m not a FLX owner, but I’ve upgraded my vanilla 2108ds to have similar components in the FLX.

When you are connected to shore power and the Xantrex is in grid mode, it will always give preference to ac loads, and will reduce dc charge amperage to the battery accordingly, so as not to exceed the 30amp SP input. It’s actually smart enough with its power share feature to output more than 30 amps by shutting down charging and inverting some battery dc amperage. You can manage dc charge amps with the app. I normally set charge amps to 60 amps, but, I reduce charge amperage from 60 to 20 when I run the microwave or the A/C. This seems to work out fine with never a tripped breaker. You have an awesome combination of Xantrex 3000 paired with Lithionics 3000. Play around with the settings, and try different stuff in the app until you get the mix that works best fr you.

[SactoSteve]

Hello, welcome to the adventure,

These are good Use Cases and point out the need for system operation documentation. This would typically be the responsibility of the integration team, presumably Winnebago, or if elsewhere, at Winnebagos behest. Either way we owners, and at a minimum, the dealers should have this information.

Lacking that we have, collaboratively, been trying to ferret out information and speculate reasonable operational expectations. This has been hit and miss as we have run across “issues” that needed resolution. I think we, collectively, have gotten to a basic understanding of our nominal system usage. And thanks to all, again, for contributing.

Rather than try to directly answer (or speculate on) each individual scenario, attached is my (current) attempt to capture a basic overview of what I think our system knowledge is at this point. A current issue is the Long Term storage environmental requirements. I think we have the knowledge corralled, we’re just not happy about it.

Again, welcome,
-steve

Ps -wrt charge from 7way there may be some insight from the 2108 electrical diagram? I don’t think there is much, if anything to gain from “lnroute” charging via tow vehicle? -steve

[souki83]

Marine359 -

Thanks for the feedback. I have downloaded the Xantrex documentation and started to immerse myself into it. Same w/ the Go Power! and Lithionics docs

SactoSteve -
Thanks for putting your findings and the collective findings in a comprehensive PDF. And thanks for sharing. I have read and am in the process of digesting.

Once we feel our findings are complete and verified, I do think there would be benefits to put things in laymen's terms with the focus on use cases or situations. Your document is a good start SactoSteve - the system operations section takes us 90% there.

As owners of FLX we're in one of the following situations at any point in time. I would have liked Winnebago to describe the steps I need to take depending on the scenario we're in.

We're either:

• Towing our rig
• Using our rig with shore power (15A or 30A)
• Using our rig without shore power (dry camping)
• Storing our rig under unrigorous weather conditions (above 32F, no need to winterize)
• Storing our rig under rigorous weather (below 32F, absolute need to winterize)

Your document takes us very close to this.

I will be working on this and share w/ you SactoSteve and Marine359 - expect some DMs... Once completed and verified, will share here.

Thanks again

[SactoSteve]

FLX Modes

Comments
“Shore Power Only” seems to me to be a bit of a misnomer. I think it best to address this from a nominal scenario and cover some sub-modes and “off nominal” situations.

I’m not sure if this write up is useful or not? But it was interesting to reverse understand the system operation design.

I think we basically have 3 operational modes, shore power in daylight, shore power in the dark, and a boondocking mode. And, 2 non-operational modes which are essentially maintenance modes. These are initialization mode in which we correct the factory configurations of the Xantrex and GoPower components, and a storage mode.
The storage mode is essentially a system off state, but not quite, and includes some non-trivial actions to enter and exit that state which are highly dependent on environmental factors. I believe we haven’t quite worked those out yet.


Mode Transition Diagram
(see below)

Nominal Modes
The operational modes are entered upon powering on the system (turning on the battery) which operational mode is entered depends on weather shore power is connected and if its day or night.
I’m terming these three modes; Grid Mode - daylight, Grid Mode-dark and Off Grid Mode (or boondocking). Transition between these modes is automatic, triggered by presence or absence of shore power, and/or the Xantrex ON or OFF state.

Mode Behaviors
Grid Mode - Daylight
- battery provides 12V to 12V loads
- solar (GoPower charger) charges Battery
- Xantrex (if on) charges Battery
- Xantrex provides conditioned 110 VAC to AC loads
* The Xantrex must be ON for its AC conditioning and Battery charging functions to operate.
* Note the Xantrex will pass shore power through to the AC loads regardless of ON or OFF.

Grid Mode - Dark
- battery provides 12V to 12V loads
- Xantrex charges Battery
- Xantrex provides conditioned 110 VAC to AC loads
* The Xantrex must be ON for its AC conditioning and Battery charging functions to operate.
* Note the Xantrex will pass shore power through to the AC loads regardless of ON or OFF.

Upon loss of shore power, or time out of the Xantrex, the system essentially transitions to the Off Grid or Boondocking mode.

Off Grid Mode (Boondocking) (I suspect this could also be considered Travel mode?)
- battery provides 12V to 12V loads
- solar (GoPower charger) charges Battery (daylight)
- Battery provides 12V for Xantrex Inverting function
- Xantrex (if on) provides conditioned 110 VAC to AC loads
* Battery State of Charge monitoring is necessary as AC usage will increase battery consumption. This could be a risky situation at night or low light levels since the battery could be rapidly depleted.


Storage Modes
State
* Battery disconnected (system unpowered)
* No charging,
* no parasitic loads on battery

I haven’t sorted this completely but I suggest, based on Lithionics documentation and 3rd hand information passed from Lithiionics to WTOW to me, there are 3 Storage Modes.

Short duration storage - less than 1 month
Entry condition - Battery charged to 100%
OFF state initiated by pressing the Blue button for 3 seconds

Mid duration storage - up to 3 Months
Entry condition - Battery charged to 100%
OFF state initiated by pressing the Blue button for 3 seconds
AND also disconnecting the Battery (breaker switch down)

Seasonal Storage - longer than 6 Months
Entry condition - Battery discharged to 50%
OFF state is initiated by pressing the Blue button for 3 seconds
AND also disconnecting the Battery (breaker switch down)
NOTE: in this mode, every 90 days, the Battery is to be charged to 100% and then discharged to 50%

NOTES
Lithionics Storage State Specification
Comment: I think, maybe, the < 3 Mo temp and humidity should be >3 Months?


Lithionics recommendation
STORAGE LESS THAN 90 DAYS
CHARGE TO 100 %
PARK THE UNIT
TURN OFF DISCONNECT SWITCH (DOWN POSITION)
*
STORAGE LONGER THAN 6MOS
DISCHARGE TO 50% OR HALF BATTERY POWER
PARK THE UNIT
TURN OFF DISCONNECT SWITCH (DOWN POSITION)
EVERY 90 DAYS, CHARGE TO 100% THEN DISCHARGE TO 50% OR HALF BATTERY POWER

[Sierracamper]

So we are off-grid and our battery is at 97%, inverter on - solid blue light - not blinking - our Gfci plug by the door has popped - it will not reset - clicking sound by fuse box - turned main power off and back on - can’t get it to reset - Any help is appreciated - still working on figuring out this system…

[SactoSteve]

Do you have the GoPower, xantrec and lithionics apps on your phone. They can provide information.
Why is the canteen on? Are you using AC appliances?
What is “clicking”?
What are you turning on and off to reset?
-Steve

[SactoSteve]

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/f267/micro-minnie-flx-xantrex-go-power-parameters-363804-8.html#post3929376

Some info in link above.
-steve

[SactoSteve]

Xantrex not canteen. I didn’t proof read. 🤦

[Sierracamper]

We do have the three apps Xantrex is showing this attachment "Utility power not Available/Qualified. The clicking sound is coming from the breaker box under the big kitchen drawer. We tried shutting off the Main breaker there to reset, but the clicking just continues with the breaker on.

[SactoSteve]

That message is just saying you are off grid. Its a nominal condition. The gfci needs 120 vac to reset.
I assume your lights and fridge vent fans etc. are fine?
I wouldn’t use the air conditioner or microwave. Actually if the microwave isn’t on I’ll bet the Xantrex is off. Try pushing the button the xantrex panel. The microwave should beep. Down is on up is standby. Depending on the Xantrex setting it may have timed out and gone to standby. In fact i’ll bet thats it.

-steve

[Sierracamper]

Hi Steve,

So I have a call in to Xantrex but here is the latest - home now so plugged in and battery is at 100% - voltage 13.20V. So no beeping of microwave or clicking in breaker box as long as we are on shore power.
Now unplugged and microwave beeps continuously and breaker box is clicking continuously - but all plugs work even though gfci plug by the door is flashing green light. Plugged in a tea kettle into the gfci plug at door and immediately the gfci went to solid green and the beeping and clicking stopped - as soon as water was hot and kettle turned off the noises resumed. I have a call in to Xantrex - the Xantrex is on - not on standby with solid green middle button light on. I have flipped the breakers off below the drawer - but as soon as I flip them back on it starts again…I have the Xantrex settings set like you stated in a previous thread with the updates and not the factory defaults, but maybe a setting could be causing this???? Thank you so much for helping all of us FLX owners endeavor to learn this system…

[SactoSteve]

Sorry this is continuing. I thought we had it with the possible Xantrex timeout.
I don’t have much experience with the Xantrex modes of operation. I believe a load will trigger Xantrex to come out of standby and stay on until it times out, but I haven’t explored that.
Please let us know what you find.

-Steve

[Morich]

I might think the flashing green on the GFCI is a clue as fashing is not what I think of as normal.
Is it indicating that the 110 AC power to the GFCI is blinking on/off? That is the one way I think of that would make a flashing green??
How about a bit more testing the AC at that outlet to verify that power is flipping on/off or what that green means. Maybe a lamp plugged into the outlet to spot if the power is intermitant?

[Sierracamper]

Okay, I have been on hold for two hours with Xantrex from caller #8 waiting for help. In the meantime I am reading the Xantrex manual again - Page 91 says you can not use a coffee pot with a brew timer — which ours is even though we weren’t setting the brew timer - so all I had to do was go into the Xantrex app and disable “power saver mode” and the beeping, clicking, and gfi flashing stopped - Hallelujah!! So now my question is can I keep it on “disable” and how does that affect the system?? Wow - thank you for your support - if we didn’t have this forum our FLX could send us over the edge … we look forward to some more Boondock in the Sierra Mountains

[SactoSteve]

Good to know, thanks for contributing!
Adding this to my notes.
-steve

[SactoSteve]

“Power Saver Mode” Disabled is the configuration setting provided through winnebago from Xantrex. I never perused the rationale or what it did.
-Steve

[Morich]

This seems to be a big problem when we deal with the instructions on many things! The people writing the instructions understand the item so well that they never feel any need to explain the details!
Is it any wonder the world is full of people driven to do crazy things, when most of us find we can't use a "simple" computer becasue they keep changing the methods!

Oh, yeh! They changed that on the last update but didn't change the instructions as there were none!