Micro-Minnie 2020 2108FBS Boondocking

[gurroz]

Originally Posted by bobbyd1655

Please NOTE; Using a 20# cylinder that produces 441,600 total btu, the engine consuming 50,000 btu per hour would run for about 8.8 hours.


4 gallons of gas last a lot longer.

I agree, my Yamaha 2000 runs 10 hours on 1 gallon of gas. We fill it before we leave and carry a 2 gallon can. We would never run a generator 30 hours in 15 days. We also have the on board Onan 4000 generator which uses much more gas and is louder. We start it occasionally but never use it!

[SonofBert]

Originally Posted by bobbyd1655

Please NOTE; Using a 20# cylinder that produces 441,600 total btu, the engine consuming 50,000 btu per hour would run for about 8.8 hours.


4 gallons of gas last a lot longer.

It's good you noted that, a better way to phrase it is LP per gallon has 80% of the energy compared to gasoline per gallon. So one 20# tank will run anything 80% of the runtime using 4.5g of gasoline.

For me, the convenience of LP tops a 20% shortfall in runtime. No way I'm dealing with gas cans in the boonies when I can carry an LP tank. Less frequent oil changes, plug changes, no high-altitude problems, etc

[bobbyd1655]

Originally Posted by SonofBert

LP per gallon has 85% of the energy compared to gasoline per gallon. So one 20# tank will run anything 85% of the time it runs on 4.5g of gasoline.

For me, the convenience of LP tops a 15% shortfall in runtime. No way I'm dealing with gas cans in the boonies when I can carry an LP tank. Less frequent oil changes, plug changes, etc . . . . . . . .

do not agree... oil changes are always required the same... energy websites document differently on longevity of LPG vs gasoline... and so does my gas / LPG generators usage both @home & TT ... all can test & research for themselves..

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by bobbyd1655

Please NOTE; Using a 20# cylinder that produces 441,600 total btu, the engine consuming 50,000 btu per hour would run for about 8.8 hours.


4 gallons of gas last a lot longer.

I'm not sure what those stats have to do with much. My 3,000 watt inverter generator will run with a moderate load for about 24 hours on a tank. A smaller generator would run even longer, and if all they're doing is charging a battery that would be a moderate load.

But then there's storage. Propane has gasoline beat hands down, both for safety and longevity. I only have to start my propane generator about every six months, where I would never let a gas carburetor sit that long. Also, part of the reason I have a diesel pickup is because if I do feel the need to carry extra fuel in remote areas I don't want to be carrying 5-10 gallons of gasoline.

[creativepart]

I've always heard that the small generators are less capable on LP vs gasoline. Same goes for built in gensets in RVs.

So, I find the comments here about how great LP is and how you should switch to LP to be opposite of what I've heard from other users.

I must state - I've only used gas generators - both portable and built-in.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by creativepart

I've always heard that the small generators are less capable on LP vs gasoline. Same goes for built in gensets in RVs.

I think the main hit is if you move to natural gas. But if your running your generator at full load for a long percentage of time you probably have too small of generator.

Here's a site that mentions a 30% hit for NG, but doesn't say anything about propane (although elsewhere I've read it's 10%).

https://www.generatorjoe.net/html/genfuel.html

[SonofBert]

Originally Posted by bobbyd1655

do not agree... oil changes are always required the same... energy websites document differently on longevity of LPG vs gasoline... and so does my gas / LPG generators usage both @home & TT ... all can test & research for themselves..

Yeah, I had to edit the post to "80%" which is more realistic. I don't care about a 20% shortfall in BTU's. I got tired of refilling gas cans and gen gas tanks many years ago.

Just easier for me when boondocking to refill a third LP tank for the gen along with two for the trailer. We rip through two Trailer LP tanks in about 4-5 days staying warm, 2kw Yamaha lasts about the same on 20lbs.

RV's, and particularly RV boondocking, are all about tradeoffs. I've been trying to find the perfect combo for 35 years, haven't done so. Among family, friends, acquaintances, neither have they, hence the huge amounts of RV's for sale that were found to be unsuitable.

Always fun discussing RV's because there's about 4000 different ways to get out and about. I always have a good laugh when I drive through a campground, if there are 50 campsites I'll see 50 different camping setups.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by SonofBert

Yeah, I had to edit the post to "80%" which is more realistic. I don't care about a 20% shortfall in BTU's. I got tired of refilling gas cans and gen gas tanks many years ago.

I've not seen a 20% number, but I wouldn't assume that matters (although it probably does for the 30% hit of natural gas).

Whatever the reduction it's a reduction in engine power, not necessarily watts generated. For those to be the same number the engine would require 100% of rated output to generate the rated watts, and I'm not sure that's true of all, if any, generators. I suspect the limitation is of the electrical components, not the mechanical components of the engine.

If you think about it, you could connect a 3,000 watt generator up to a 5 liter truck engine, and barely working the large engine could put out 3,000 watts through the generator and no more. And you could easily cut the power of that large engine by 30% and not affect maximum power generated.

It would be interesting to run some tests of different tri-fuel generators to see if they can output rated power with different fuels. My guess would be with propane some could, some couldn't, but that few if any could running off NG.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by SonofBert

We rip through two Trailer LP tanks in about 4-5 days staying warm, 2kw Yamaha lasts about the same on 20lbs.

With the generator are you using an electric heater? I have never suspected that the propane heaters are that efficient, but if those are your numbers and the second is electric, the propane heaters must be terribly inefficient.

[SonofBert]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

I've not seen a 20% number, but I wouldn't assume that matters (although it probably does for the 30% hit of natural gas).

Whatever the reduction it's a reduction in engine power, not necessarily watts generated. For those to be the same number the engine would require 100% of rated output to generate the rated watts, and I'm not sure that's true of all, if any, generators. I suspect the limitation is of the electrical components, not the mechanical components of the engine.

If you think about it, you could connect a 3,000 watt generator up to a 5 liter truck engine, and barely working the large engine could put out 3,000 watts through the generator and no more. And you could easily cut the power of that large engine by 30% and not affect maximum power generated.

It would be interesting to run some tests of different tri-fuel generators to see if they can output rated power with different fuels. My guess would be with propane some could, some couldn't, but that few if any could running off NG.

This guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13KaqmKu338

tested a dual-fuel generator.

No doubt you get less with LP. You get 80% of all metrics compared to gasoline. My Yamaha and Hondas I've converted to tri-fuel, I have no problem losing a little of this a little of that. I won't carry gas cans when an LP tank is an alternative.

[SonofBert]

Originally Posted by Goodspike

With the generator are you using an electric heater? I have never suspected that the propane heaters are that efficient, but if those are your numbers and the second is electric, the propane heaters must be terribly inefficient.

2kw gen is used to top the trailer batteries after overnight use running the furnace, laptops, inverter, cellphones.

Don't bother trying to run an electric heater off of a 2kw generator. 1kw generator or 2kw generator are for charging batteries offgrid.

Two LP tanks on the trailer can hang in there well for heating. One of the beauties on these Micro Minnies is the ducted furnace. Ducted into the bathroom so the heat is spread around.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by SonofBert

2kw gen is used to top the trailer batteries after overnight use running the furnace, laptops, inverter, cellphones.

Don't bother trying to run an electric heater off of a 2kw generator. 1kw generator or 2kw generator are for charging batteries offgrid.

Two LP tanks on the trailer can hang in there well for heating. One of the beauties on these Micro Minnies is the ducted furnace. Ducted into the bathroom so the heat is spread around.

Okay, so you were referring to different tanks. Thanks.

[Goodspike]

Originally Posted by SonofBert

This guy

tested a dual-fuel generator.

Yes, that's the sort of testing I had in mind, but I wish he had monitored voltage too.

Note though that was a Westinghouse generator. I'd also like to see a similar test using Honda and Yamaha, because again I think it's the power (quality design) of the motor that is the limiting factor.

Finally, I had looked too, and the only thing I found was not a great source (sales material) but they indicate most the generators they have tested do the same or better on propane but not natural gas. Again, not a great source. (Also, I'm not necessarily crazy about that particular device, as opposed to the ones that install in the intake path.)

https://www.motorsnorkel.com/

Edit: And one more thing. RVs are not likely to use large resistive loads like that, but instead AC motors would be the main draw. So the issue would be handling a short surge during startup.

[Phil G.]

There is one other way to at least partially top up your batteries every other day or so that doesn't require solar or buying or running a generator:

Have you considered just idling the hooked-up tow vehicle engine a couple of hours here and there? We do this with our Class C motorhome and can get by drycamping for days and days with only idling the main engine a little to keep the batteries charged.

We have no solar and have two generators, but idling the main engine - even though it sounds "inefficient" - is so convenient and quiet that it turns out to be a really great way to handle non-fulltime, non-solar, drycamping power needs here and there. The main engine consumes around 7/10 of gallon per hour, so we just try to begin camping with a full enough gas tank to handle some idling without much impact on having enough gas left in the tank to start out down the road when we want to leave.

You might want to give it a try.

[Pianotuna]

Hi,


If you are serious about boondocking get a solar panel system. I'd suggest 400 to 600 watts. Double up or triple up on the battery capacity.



Purchase shade tolerant panels. Mine produce about 7 amps in leafy shade.


This link may help:


https://freecampsites.net/adding-solar/


I was without a generator for the first 5 years.

Originally Posted by Gate68

We are newbie with travel trailer and need some help or education on power management.

Most of our camping is with no electricity, usually 15 days at a time. The trailer is coming with one 24 volts battery, should we had a second one in parallel?

Since our camping is in the wild with little sun access usually, solar panel is not necessarily the best option for us.

Is it realistic to survive 2 weeks on two 24 Volts batteries if we don’t use the AC? Is a generator absolutely necessary or maybe a 3rd battery in the truck? In wort case will buy a small generator if we most.

Ideally is someone could share is analysis of energy consumption per elements while boondocking this would be greatly appreciated.

We have been trying to research on battery management and the more we read the more it gets confusing.

Hopefully some on this site can help us and my apologies if this was discuss on previous posts.

[Pianotuna]

Here is a way to compare energy sources:


Electric Heat vs. Gas/Oil Heat Cost Calculator/Comparator

[DLH]

There is a lot of good information on you tube from Jared at All about RV's.
Solar panels, batteries and battery monitors.

[MainelyScott]

I have a 2108DS (2018) At the very least get one of those jumper boxes for boosting the battery. I haven't found any way to manually crank the slide out in, it needs the battery. I had to have AAA come and boost the trailer to get the slide hauled in.

[KGs2108DS]

Ah, yes, boon docking! so, 15 days on your trailer battery seems unlikely. how long it will last obviously depends on lots of factors, most importantly, weather and daylight hours. last summer. last (early) fall, my wife and I did several weeks of shorter boon docking in SW Colorado, 5 days, 4 nights at a time. I used a Honda 3300i generator to charge the battery and run the trailer for an hour in the AM and an hour before bedtime. lows at night were into the upper 20s, and daytime temps up into the 60s with mostly sunshine. this worked pretty well. the furnace ran at night only a couple of times (set it to 50 and used a down comforter), and daytime electricity use was minimal after breakfast (coffeemaker and toaster) was over (AM generator run was during breakfast). 15 days seems very unlikely without any input into your battery! you could always start your tow vehicle to charge the battery, but would there be enough gas left to drive out?

[Phil G.]

Originally Posted by Gate68

Thank you all for you answers. The dealer will be upgrading to 2 6V battery plus we will get a small Honda generator 2200i.

The batteries spec they are installing is:
*6 Volts GC2 battery
*383 Reserve Capacity (RC)@25 Amps
*210 Amp Hours (AH)@20 Hr

Can someone confirm if the battery monitor that come with the 2108 micro-minnie will be sufficient to monitor my 2 6V batteries or do we need to also upgrade this?

That's looks like a good equipment setup for decent self-contained camping. Add some way of monitoring battery charging and discharging currents in addition to only monitoring battery voltage - and you're all set.

We have an overall similar setup in a small Class C motorhome - 230 amp hours of battery capacity, a 4000 watt built-in generator, a 650 watt portable generator, and a high capacity main engine alternator - because our camping goals require that we not have to camp in a particular place, season, or altitude in order to be comfortable inside the RV. We want to be able to RV camp regardless of those limitations.

In addition to the above, we have a permanently installed battery current monitoring meter that indicates at all times how much current is going into or out of the RV's batteries.