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Old 09-23-2020, 07:32 PM   #1
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2108DS 2020 Review

We just acquired our new Micro Minnie 2108 and have put 10 days and about 1500 miles on it. This seemed like an appropriate time to record our impressions of this unit.

First, I want to say that this is our first-ever RV, so our expectations may have been higher than justified. However, we specifically chose the Winnebago brand over significantly less expensive yet comparable brands due more to poor ratings on many other brands.

And, in general, we don't regret our choice. We did not experience any operational issues with the trailer, nor did we have any trim pieces fall off or doors coming open during transit. The 2108DS has a decent number of standard amenities, although I suspect nothing that other, less expensive brands provide. On the list though, is a gas stove and oven, microwave, A/C and heater, dual power water heater and decent sized refrigerator, powered awning, powered slide-out, TV with local rooftop antenna, and separate media unit for music/radio, etc. There is also an outdoor shower attachment that we will doubtless never use, but who knows, and finally, a spare tire and ladder to access the roof.

The interior of the cabin has, honestly, a decent fit and finish as far as trim and materials go. It is just when you take a closer look that disappointments start to build.

Let's begin with what seems should inarguably be provided as standard equipment: A toilet paper holder in the bathroom, some decent adjustable shelving for the bathroom closet instead of the big gaping hole there (there is more than ample room for hanging clothes in the two bedside wardrobes up front.
Add to the list the tiniest fire extinguisher on the market, when one double the length (and capacity) could easily fit in the same space.
Every trailer is absolutely going to need, on the first outing:
  • Fresh Water Hose
  • Sewer Drain Hose
  • Water pressure regulator
  • Surge surpressor
Yes, I could see a company using the justification "we wanted the buyer to have their choice", but still, when shelling out near $35,000 list for this unit, one would expect it to come equipped ready to hit the first RV park.

Look a little closer, and you'll be horrified at the raw, unfinished, crudely cut plywood bases for the dinette seat. My wife already picked up a splinter removing one to access the storage area. Then, a simple piano hinge and support bracket would be invaluable for ease of access to those under-seat areas. I will be adding that, and sanding the edges of the plywood, then coating with a good epoxy paint to rectify this crude construct.

The dearth of any useful instructions for the trailer is more than worrisome. C'mon, there aren't THAT many models that Winnebago can't create a model specific manual, or at least show differences between models. Many, many items are simply not addressed at all, for example no mention of how to use or access the so-called "pre-wired for back up camera", or even how/when to grease wheel bearings, a maintenance task that seems to get a lot of discussion on the forum.

We find that the gas oven provided will be worse than useless for our needs. My wife is an excellent cook, but the combination of the 4" or so height in the oven for baking, plus the requirement to manually light the oven burners waaay in the back of the cavity, renders it of no value (even our dealership guru, during our orientation, struggled getting that oven to light).

Much more useful in the kitchen would be the combination Microwave/Convection Oven/Grill made by the same manufacturer, and which fits in the cabinet just fine (with a larger interior cooking space), available on Amazon for about $300. We would have much preferred that option and NO gas oven (a configuration inexplicably provided on similar Winnebago models, but good luck finding an option list for any of the models).

We have already sprung for the Microwave/Convection Oven, which will eliminate our need to stash away a separate convection oven. We would give anything to have much-needed additional cabinet space where the near-useless gas oven now resides.

Look at the cheesy hold down strap for the dinette table top.. Really? They might as well just left us with a rope to do the job. Just how much additional expense would be involved to provide a pin and drilled hole in each leg for a cleaner, more functional setup?

Finally, I would warn owners against ever taking a look under your trailer. You will be appalled at the shoddy workmanship. The sheeting that holds, presumably, insulation under the floor, looks to be the same material as those cheap corrugated plastic political signs, and then crudely secured to the underbody by railings spaced only 5 feet or so apart, leaving the panels to sage in between.

Then there is the exposed wiring, which is ONLY secured in a few places with ordinary tie-wrap cables.. the workmen couldn't even be bothered to snip off the loose ends. The wiring for the electric brakes is left to dangle in mid air, subject to every jarring up and down motion of the suspension. Several of the wires were literally laying on the metal supports, spelling an almost certain short life as that insulation rubs against metal with every suspension movement.

Finally, EVERY penetration into the so-called underbelly bulkhead (for wiring, gas lines, water and drains) is accomplished NOT by using proper grommets or bulkhead fittings to insure a tight, leakproof installation. Instead, it appears that an oversize hole was cut for each, then about a can's worth of that expanding foam (you know, the stuff that generally attracts and holds moisture like crazy), leaving these huge globs of foam literally hanging and extending underneath the trailer as thick as 5 inches. I hate to even think about just how water/air/bug proof this ham-handed approach to sealing will be in the long run.

I can see myself spending hours and hours underneath my trailer correcting all this shoddy work, routing the wiring in such a way that it won't chafe and create a fire-prone short circuit.

This is NOT a unit that was constructed with pride or craftsmanship in any of the areas deemed not immediately visible to the buyer.

I would gladly pay another $1,000 or so to have a unit I could truly be proud of, and that I could feel was built with quality throughout and designed to maximize the limited space in these smaller units
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Old 09-23-2020, 07:42 PM   #2
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I had the same thoughts about the outside shower, but it is somewhat useful during winterization and dewinterization as well as when connecting to city water to bleed the air out of the system without air-hammer. I've removed the showerhead on the exterior faucet.

I agree the manual situation is pretty pathetic.

I think it's more up to the dealer to provide the accessories you mentioned, but your list of four things is actually short. There are a ton of accessories that could be provided and so that's probably why none are provided.

I notice you didn't mention the interior shower. That is usually a disappointing item, both for size and water changing temperature when pausing water flow. I've been very happy with my 2106DS shower, which is probably similar.
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Old 09-23-2020, 08:07 PM   #3
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Thanks for your response. Believe it or not, the shower was one item that we were PLEASANTLY surprised by. In fact, we began our first trip choosing only RV sites with shower facilities, expecting to use those exclusively. However, after one trip slogging to the shower building with all our stuff, we decided to give OUR shower a shot.

I'm a big guy, at 200 lbs and 6'2", but honestly once I got the hang of it, and keep my head within the higher skylight area, I found it quite workable. We both like the fact that you get hot water almost instantly (10-20 seconds at most). At first we really scrimped on water usage in deference to the 6 gallon hot water tank, but as we got into it, we found that both my wife and I could take back-to-back shower sessions with total disregard for hot water usage and still have plenty hot water left (Of course, you aren't going to be able to have a 30 minute daydream soak!).

And, yes, you're right, when you use the manual cutoff valve at the shower head to temporarily pause the water flow, when you turn it back on, for a VERY SHORT moment (5 seconds max) you are going to get a blast of full-on hot water. After the initial surprise shock, we quickly learned to just point the shower head against the wall for those few seconds until water temp returns to desired level. Honestly, it's just not an issue for concern now at all.
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:27 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauldridge View Post
First, I want to say that this is our first-ever RV, so our expectations may have been higher than justified.
Welcome to the world of RVing!
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauldridge View Post
And, yes, you're right, when you use the manual cutoff valve at the shower head to temporarily pause the water flow, when you turn it back on, for a VERY SHORT moment (5 seconds max) you are going to get a blast of full-on hot water. After the initial surprise shock, we quickly learned to just point the shower head against the wall for those few seconds until water temp returns to desired level. Honestly, it's just not an issue for concern now at all.
That's the issue I don't have. There's a thread on that here but I think it may be because my showerhead doesn't drip when I turn it off. But that's something I'm going to have to test on my next outing.
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Old 09-24-2020, 04:37 PM   #6
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2108DS - Additional complaints

Today I went to correct the poor workmanship on the dinette under-bench plywood "doors". First I rounded of the edges so the next user doesn't get a splinter. Then I had to cut a notch out of the outer, wall-side corner, so the piece doesn't hit the hold down for the blinds (yes on both sides). I can't help but wonder how many blind hold down knobs get replaced after the first use when an unsuspecting user bangs the plywood piece into that knob. Was there even an engineer on the design of this unit? Honestly, it seems as though a 12 year old could have done better!

My first discovery was that, although the plywood used had a "finished" side, with minimal knots, the goofball who cut these pieces couldn't be bothered with just reversing the pattern for the plywood, so that BOTH sides could take advantage of having the "good" side. So, in spite of my quest to add just a bit of quality to the construction, I am stuck with having one ugly side exposed under the cushion.

I will be painting these covers with a nice white gloss paint to further enhance handling, and then install the piano hinge and prop (both available from Amazon) across the back as it should have come from the factory.

I suppose I can understand some cost-cutting justification for using substandard materials, but this example is just one of many that exhibits and complete and total lack of quality control and workmanship (I WON'T apply the word "craftsmanship" to any part of this trailer). It is infuriating to see so little attention being paid to basic details.

Finally, I've posted photos of the similar poor workmanship underneath the trailer, showing wires just dangling, unsecured at the brake drum, and haphazard minimal use of zip ties (which the worker couldn't even bother to cut off the excess end.

So disappointing
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Old 09-24-2020, 06:50 PM   #7
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I've read your review on many RV forums. Not really, but others just like it about all different brands. You are not alone in your frustration. The RV world is not driven yet by quality. Grand Design made a lot of headway when they came out due to their focus on pre-consumer quality checks. Still, when you look a bit further, the wiring, plumbing, and underbelly are as bad or worse than Winnebago. My GD fifth-wheel didn't even have adequate gauge wire installed to the brakes (below the axle manufacturer's specs).

One good thing about the MM is that most of the plumbing and wiring is above the floor where you can get at it and fix it yourself. With most trailers, any fault in the pressurized plumbing or wiring has you digging into that chloroplast under the rig to troubleshoot.

There are some American products that exude quality (B&W hitches), but RVs are generally an embarrassment.
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Old 09-24-2020, 08:39 PM   #8
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[QUOTE=Pauldridge;3874687

This is NOT a unit that was constructed with pride or craftsmanship in any of the areas deemed not immediately visible to the buyer.

I would gladly pay another $1,000 or so to have a unit I could truly be proud of, and that I could feel was built with quality throughout and designed to maximize the limited space in these smaller units[/QUOTE]

To get quality you are going to pay for it. Airstream, Oliver and Lance are quality. Everything else is, as the Airstreamer's call it: cardboard.
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Old 09-26-2020, 04:50 AM   #9
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What you have is pretty much standard in the RV industry. That's the only way they can get you this product at this price point. If you prefer to pay $10k-$20k more to have all those issues at a better quality there are brands out there that offer that. I personally would take my Winnebago and fix what needs to be addressed for a fraction of that.
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Old 09-26-2020, 03:58 PM   #10
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"The dearth of any useful instructions for the trailer is more than worrisome."

I feel you. The lack of documentation is inexcusable in my opinion. I dealt with this when I went to winterize my 2108DS and again now when I want to figure out why nothing but the slide out works with battery only (for possible boondocking). The generic owners manual is totally worthless in my opinion. When you spend north of $30K I don't think it's unreasonable to expect documentation that addresses specific maintenance and operational tasks that as an owner you need to perform. You should NOT have to resort to asking questions in forums to find answers.

I understand the quality issue may be across manufacturers at certain price points, but I wonder if the documentation issue also spans all the manufacturers. Because in the end, I'd rather buy a poorly constructed, well documented product than a poorly constructed undocumented product. At least I can troubleshoot and fix the former.
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Old 09-27-2020, 08:11 AM   #11
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My Grand Design fifth-wheel included a generic owners manual. It was not specific to the model but it was quite adequate. The Winnebago documents I've seen (downloaded from their website) are not as good as those from Grand Design. This is definitely an area where they could hire a summer intern and double the quality of the documentation in a matter of weeks. They also need to weigh each unit as it comes out of the factory and include a weight slip in the owner's documents. GD did that and it was nice to know the as-built load applied to the pin and each of the 4 individual tires.
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Old 09-27-2020, 08:36 AM   #12
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I enjoyed the read, and if you can please post up a link of the convection oven you spoke of I would appreciate it. I hate that little oven and can usually get it lit 3 out of 5 trips.
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:01 AM   #13
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Nice review! I've had many of the same thoughts but over time am beginning to realize that my main problem is my perspective of thinking of the TT as if was a car. The auto manufacturers have done an absolutely incredible job over the past several decades and it's easy to think the RV industry should do the same (even easier for those with class A, B, and C's!). But I'm not entirely sure that even airstream would make the grade.

I'm not sure what would be best as a comparison, but for example compare what you got with your house. Your house came with a pile of manuals for the various installed appliances, but didn't come with a nice user guide, wiring and plumbing schematics, nor a maintenance procedure book (other than what's in the myriad pile of manuals you have). So you learn, sometimes the hard way. And you find things aren't always built to the quality you'd like.

I don't believe manual writing is nearly as easy and cheap as you guys think. For Winnebago to keep up with engineering changes across a line of half a dozen TT's with variations would take a small team of technical writers, not to mention the effort it would take to develop the first edition. Winnebago TT's do come with a general manual that may be a derivative of the mentioned grand design manual. See https://winnebagoind.com/resources/m...OWABLES_US.pdf

One thing that would be REALLY nice, in my opinion, is that owners like the OP of this thread would continue to point out trouble spots and what they did about it so others are aware of potential troubles and their solutions. We can't all be experts, and while it would be wonderful if Winnebago did this for us, forums like this one can really step up and fill the gap. And, of course, that's what these forums have been doing all along so I'm not saying anything new here.

Now I need to look at that wiring under the frame again!
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:08 AM   #14
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I forgot to mention the oven. We actually love the propane stove/oven and are seriously planning to remove the microwave. The television is already gone and we love the extra space! People are different in what they want. Options would be nice here, but some of these would probably land with the dealer to do the work and I really wonder how great an idea that would be. Also, I'm not sure I would have known up-front that we'd like the oven.

The lighting of the over is an absolute PITA I would agree. It really needs some kind of piezo igniter design of some kind. I believe a baking stone for spreading heat is also needed and is something we plan to try in the future.
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Old 09-27-2020, 10:37 AM   #15
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Nice review! I've had many of the same thoughts but over time am beginning to realize that my main problem is my perspective of thinking of the TT as if was a car. ...

I'm not sure what would be best as a comparison, but for example compare what you got with your house.
It is definitely more akin to a house, and that is a great way to think of it. The fact that Winnebago will supply drawings upon request is a great thing. At one point in 2017 I asked Grand Design for a couple of drawings and was told that they would not send them to customers. That policy may have changed at this point, but I appreciate Winnebago's current policy.
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Old 09-30-2020, 06:37 PM   #16
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Convection/microwave upgrade for 2108ds

Someone asked for the link to the convection/broil/microwave upgrade we replaced our microwave only unit from Amazon $300
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07RMZPJNS/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apap_42imhGQDe6luS

Please note
1) the actual unit we received I'd a High Pointe brand, different than depicted in the listing
2) contrary to the claim, this is NOT a slide in replacement to the original, being wider, taller, and deeper, which required some 3 hours of modification to get a decent install. (read my 1 star review)
That said, if you are handy and have the tools, it can be made to fit and the larger interior size will be a bonus. We haven't had opportunity to use it yet in real life but am optimistic it will be a plus
Interestingly, some similar Winnie models do feature this same unit and substitute cabinets for the gas oven

I am making other usability tweaks to our trailer and will document here when completed
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Old 09-30-2020, 09:00 PM   #17
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Nice review and I understand your frustration but that is RV reality. I had two used Winnebago RVs (2006 and 2011) and in June I decided to buy new RV and compared prices. I ended up buying a leftover new 2019 Thor Four Winds 24BL (Class-C Mercedes based). With full optional body paint, second coach battery with solar system and the diesel generator I paid 79K. A comparable "premium" Winnebago would have been at least 50K more.
I spent the first weekend fixing some plumbing leaks, securing all the wiring underneath the coach and removing all drawers to clean up construction debris left in hidden places. I also had to insulate around all ceiling fans and vents because Thor just cuts channels in to the Styrofoam roof insulation to create a ducted AC system. There were a few other issues requiring parts but my dealer took care of them.
Since then we have been out on five 4-day trips and about 1800 miles and everything worked great and we had a good time.
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Old 10-03-2020, 12:38 PM   #18
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Much of that is valid, but that's how it is with RV's. Buying from a dealer I require they throw in for free various items from their parts department - sewage hose, second battery, WDH, wheel chocks, level blocks, level bubbles, hitch locks, etc. They don't like to drop their asking price but I've found they're willing to throw in some accessories to make a quick cashiers check sale.

The brake wiring, you did a good thing IMO. I've found on all of my trailers the underside wiring needs looming/zipties.
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Old 11-03-2020, 06:04 PM   #19
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We bought and used all summer the same year and model. This is our second TT.

Here are a few things I disagree with:

I don’t mind the oven and prefer it to the microwave/convection combo we had in our Jayco Hummingbird. Yes the oven is small but it still cooks. I would not bake a layer cake in it, though. I believe the 2021 model has the setup you desire. I too would like more kitchen storage.

The outdoor shower is very useful for people who travel with dogs—in fact we would not buy a trailer without one.

I agree that the table strap is silly and cheap and that the indoor shower is quite nice.

What I really hate and I would not have bought this model if I had noticed is that there are no reading lights over the bed. If you’re a reader this is a serious drawback. We can hire an electrician to install but don’t really want to.

But what I most thought of when reading your post is that you mentioned a price of $35,000. That is the list price. We paid $9,000 less and we are located on the west coast which does affect cost.
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Old 11-11-2020, 11:15 AM   #20
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New 2021 2108ds is a Good Value

Last week we took delivery of a new 2108ds “B” model. We are not full-timers, so the combination of livability for up to 4 weeks, and towability were are most important decision factors.

We towed it home from Indiana to North Carolina with our recently purchased GMC Canyon Denali 3.6L gas engine. Hitch is a Husky Centerline. The rig towed beautifully except that when we installed the hitch, we had a lot of weight in the bed which was transferred to the trailer, so I had to drop the hitch ball down a notch to level it up again. Our GMC gets 24mpg solo, but dropped to 10.5 towing the Minnie.

Stopped a couple nights at Camp on the Kentucky, before heading back to Asheville. The dump hose and fresh water hose provided by the dealership were totally useless. Fortunately, we had purchased a proper dump hose and fresh hose, along with a water pressure regulator, and surge protector ahead of time. Having owned RVs when we were younger with kids, we know most are junk. We decided to buy wWinnebago because the build quality is far away better than any other brand except Lance and Airstream, neither of which fell into our budget. Overall, the 2108ds delivers a lot of bang for the buck, and two torsion axles with weight low enough to tow with our Canyon. At 7ft wide, we could tow without extension mirrors, and wind buffeting was practically zero thanks in part to our anti-sway hitch.

Now our complaints, so I hope the folks at Winnebago read this thread.
1. The access panels to the water heater bypass valves and low point drain valves, are cheesy laminate and held in by tiny easily lost wood screws. Why they couldn’t install tambour doors is beyond me. Hard for my old body to get down there and install and remove those panels whenever I want to winterize. We will be winterizing and de-winterizing several times during the winter, as we plan many southbound trips.
2. The outlets for usb on either side of the Murphy bed are almost impossible to reach unless the bed is down, you are lying in it, and contort yourself to reach the outlets. This means we will have to buy long cords and leave them plugged in. Can’t walk around the bed. I plan to cut back to storage panels on either side in order to make the bed easier to make and use.
3. The refrigerator is 12v only. OMG, what planner at Winnebago made that decision? This rig is not a motor home. With the factory installed fridge, we can’t boondock unless we constantly run a generator. The fridge drains the standard battery in 3 hours. Seriously considering swapping out this fridge for a 12v/LP unit. Until then we’ll have to upgrade batteries to 200 amphour lithiums and get a portable solar panel.
4. Toilet is cheesy, tongue jack light is wimpy, and hinge doors on dinette storage access are too small. Owners manual is only good if you build rvs for a living.

All-in-all, a well built trailer with a few design and materials disappointments. Don’t think any of the shortfalls would change our purchase decision.
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