2022 Micro Minnie 2108FBS Electrical/Solar/Construction Documents

2108_FBS · 03-11-2023, 09:07 AM

Hello All, I requested these documents from Winnebago Customer Service a few weeks ago. They finally came to my email. I figured they would be of use to people here.

Marine359 · 03-11-2023, 12:17 PM

Thanks Detroit

SactoSteve · 03-12-2023, 09:12 AM

Greatly appreciated!
- steve

souki83 · 03-13-2023, 12:00 PM

This is so so so good. Thanks for this.

I have 2022 2108TB coming my way mid-April, and was wondering if the "Solar on the Side" port was connected to the onboard Charge Controller or was wired directly to the battery. I intend to buy a portable solar panel and, thanks to the diagram, I now know that it doesn't have to include its own Charge Controller as both, the roof mounted 190W panel AND the side port both share connection to the door side front wall 30A Charge Controller.

The 12V and 110V diagrams are going to come in super handy as we.

Again, thanks for this.

SactoSteve · 03-13-2023, 06:02 PM

Here’s a link to a post in a thread that discusses “Solar on the Side”, we are not currently using that capability so I have no experience or expertise but Rovinmedics, creativepart and marine359 do.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3922240

Senior · 03-18-2023, 09:51 PM

Thanks for sharing!

Marine359 · 03-19-2023, 01:09 AM

Souki83,
This solar on the side thing is new for Winnebago towables. It’s a great feature that most other brands don’t have. Most other brands give you just a port connected to the battery, which means the port is only useable with a portable panel equipped with an onboard charge controller. Onboard portable panel charge controllers are bad news because the cable between panel and port has to be very short, or much of the power is lost due to voltage drop. With internal mppt, such as yours, you can run a long cable to the panel, which enables you to more easily place it in the sun. I run a 30ft cable to my sidewall port with mppt inside the trailer. Virtually no voltage drop.

ZottHart · 03-19-2023, 01:06 PM

THANK YOU! I tried to get these from Winnebago and got the run around and gave up. Really helpful.

Desert Taco · 03-19-2023, 05:10 PM

Thanks for the info. It will come in handy!
Terry

Bcborn · 03-19-2023, 10:04 PM

Now we know if the roof consists of multiple the roof panels they should be wired in Series. Two roof panels wired in Series would then output 24 volts to the charge controller. In a series setup, every panel you add increases the voltage by 12. Ie three panels = 36 volts output

Note: Single or multiple Parallel wired panels output 12 volts.

In our case 2 series wired panels on the roof and a single portable panel would equate as follows. 24 + 12 = 36 Volts. The charge controller would need to be able to handle 36 volts and the total amperage of the 3 panels. It states in the drawing notes to this regard.

Jim can you shed more light on this combination.

Marine359 · 03-20-2023, 06:13 AM

Yah,
But you need to redo the math. A 12v 100w monocrystalline panel nominally outputs 18v, not 12v. To calculate the maximum amount of voltage a charge controller can handle, you must multiply Voc (voltage open circuit) times the number of panels, if they are wired in series. Voc is always higher than rated voltage output to the controller, and should be used for computations. So, 3 x 100w panels with 21v Voc each = 63v. In series, max current stays the same (5amps), so need to worry about the controller being able to handle the current. In my example, the minimum size mppt controller for the array would be 75/15.

It is not always best to wire in series. Yes, in series, the array will output more useable voltage, but that’s only good if you have a mppt controller. Additionally, series wiring can reduce the charge voltage of the array if any one of the panels is shaded. The output of all panels will be the same as the one shaded panel. The other panels are immune to voltage loss if only one panel is shaded in a parallel configuration. So choose the configuration which is best suited for the shade conditions you expect to encounter. And, of course, you can’t wire 3 panels in parallel. You can do 2 or 4, or a series/parallel config with 4 panels.

Measure Voc by placing multimeter probes across the panel’s mc4 connectors while panel is in the sun.

But note if you ever decided to add another panel to the array, you would exceed the controller capacity if you wired in series. So you’d then be left with the decision to buy a bigger controller, or wire 4 panels as series/series, parallel/parallel. In the case of SS/PP, a 4x 100w array would output 10amps @ 36v.

There’s also the issue of panel construction. 9BB panels are much more forgiving of shading than the standard 5BB panels that you can buy under $100. 9BB panels will also collect more power during lower light conditions, like morning and evening. The same is true for CIGS panels.

Marine359 · 03-21-2023, 09:18 AM

Error correction:
You CAN actually wire 3 panel in parallel, but it’s hard to do on rooftop solar unless you buy a 3-way mc4 to gland harness, or 4x 2 to 1 mc4 harnesses. IMO, series is better. And if you have 4 panels, SS/PP is superior.

Bcborn · 03-21-2023, 02:15 PM

If the Winnebago 190 watt roof panel is a single panel, serial/parallel doesn't come into play. If an additional roof panel was added and wired in parallel with the original the voltage doesn't increase

If the portable add on at ground level is a single panel, serial/parallel doesn't come into play here either. If the ground panel is a 2 or 3 panel suitcase wired in parallel (which many are) I would think all should be good on the FLX with the SOTS Port wired into the OEM Controller. (Jim please comment on this).

As Jim said it's when the voltage increases through serial wiring that the controller needs attention.

If the ground add on is the same brand (Go Power) it would likely match the SOTS plug. It when you go third party such as Zamp, Renogy, Coleman, Rich Solar, Sunthysis etc... who knows. Remember no Charge Controller at panel, panel uses onboard controller if the SOTS plug is wired to FLX Controller.

As Jim mentioned a polarity changer is available if needed.

souki83 · 07-04-2023, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marine359

Souki83,
This solar on the side thing is new for Winnebago towables. It’s a great feature that most other brands don’t have. Most other brands give you just a port connected to the battery, which means the port is only useable with a portable panel equipped with an onboard charge controller. Onboard portable panel charge controllers are bad news because the cable between panel and port has to be very short, or much of the power is lost due to voltage drop. With internal mppt, such as yours, you can run a long cable to the panel, which enables you to more easily place it in the sun. I run a 30ft cable to my sidewall port with mppt inside the trailer. Virtually no voltage drop.

Hi Marine359 - got myself 200W Renogy external solar panel which comes w/ an internal MPPT CC, but can be wired to bypass it. My test appear to contradict the wiring diagram that Detroit shared with us - when I put my multimeter on the SAE port, I'm reading ~13.6 V. Isn't that an indication that the side port is connected directly to the battery and not the internal controller? Worried that if I wire my external Renogy panel to bypass its internal MPPT CC, I'll put too much voltage on the battery. I was really looking forward to use the internal PWM for the reasons you had mentioned - giving me more versatility when it comes to "seek the sun". Am I testing this the right way? Is my conclusion flawed?

2108_FBS · 07-04-2023, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souki83

Hi Marine359 - got myself 200W Renogy external solar panel which comes w/ an internal MPPT CC, but can be wired to bypass it. My test appear to contradict the wiring diagram that Detroit shared with us - when I put my multimeter on the SAE port, I'm reading ~13.6 V. Isn't that an indication that the side port is connected directly to the battery and not the internal controller? Worried that if I wire my external Renogy panel to bypass its internal MPPT CC, I'll put too much voltage on the battery. I was really looking forward to use the internal PWM for the reasons you had mentioned - giving me more versatility when it comes to "seek the sun". Am I testing this the right way? Is my conclusion flawed?

The solar on the side connector is wired directly to the battery on my unit.

Marine359 · 07-04-2023, 02:59 PM

I think, but I’m not sure that “solar on the side” for FLX units is wired to the solar charge controller. Whereas, on plain vanilla Micro Minnie’s, it’s wired directly to the battery. In any case, it’s easy enough to look in there and see how it’s connected.

If it’s connected directly to battery, you have the choice of buying a portable panel with built-in charge controller (typically PWM), or installing a charge controller inside between the sidewall port and the battery. If you choose the later you can install an inexpensive mppt controller, and also gain the ability to place your portable panel 30 feet or more away from your RV.

souki83 · 07-05-2023, 07:26 AM

That would explain everything. I've elected to go w/ the "vanilla" version of the 2108TB earlier this Spring and couldn't explain why the diagram was not in line w/ my tests.

I like your suggestion: 1) detach the MPPT controller from my Renogy panel, 2) install it in the passthrough opposite side of where my current Go Solar PWM 30A is, 3) rewire so the the MPPT sits between the SAE port and the battery. Hoping this is easier re-wiring than to wire the SAE port to the already installed PWM controller.

This way, both of the controllers are within 3 feet of the battery, minimizing voltage drop, downstream from the controller, and allowing me to "seek the sun" with my 30 feet MC4 cable, upstream from the controller.

As usual, thanks for the information and guidance. When I get to it, I'll post some pictures.

RovingMedics · 07-06-2023, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2108_FBS

The solar on the side connector is wired directly to the battery on my unit.

to clarify, did you add solar to your 2108 FBS or are you talking about the 2108 FBS *FLX* unit with pre-installed solar? I looked at your other thread and I wonder if we're all thinking about 2 different models here.

souki83 · 07-06-2023, 12:10 PM

Hi RovinMedics -

I ended up with the vanilla 2108TB (couldn't quite justify the 20K+$ difference for the FLX model). The 2108TB came w/ 190W on the roof connected to a PWM 30A charge controller inside the passthrough, camping side. This PWM CC does NOT appear to be connected to the Solar on the Side SAE connector.

Hope this clarifies things.

RovingMedics · 07-07-2023, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by souki83

Hi RovinMedics -

I ended up with the vanilla 2108TB (couldn't quite justify the 20K+$ difference for the FLX model). The 2108TB came w/ 190W on the roof connected to a PWM 30A charge controller inside the passthrough, camping side. This PWM CC does NOT appear to be connected to the Solar on the Side SAE connector.

Hope this clarifies things.

It does, thanks.

We have a few users here that have done something similar and a growing number of FLX users as well, so it's good to know.

On my FLX, the MPPT controller seems to be wired to the SotS SAE connector.