2021 Micro Minnie structure & suspension

backtrack15 · 07-20-2020, 06:54 PM

Way back in the beginning, I believe the Micro Minnie was a true 6-sided aluminum trailer. At this point, it has aluminum "framing" for the two side walls and aluminum framing under the floor decking. The front wall, roof, and rear wall are all framed with wood. I believe this applies to at least the last couple of model years.

I'm curious if anyone here has put high mileage on a "wood" Micro Minnie... and how the structure has held up. Anyone have any relevant experience?

I love the size and robust suspension of the Micro Minnie, but the goal would be to travel long-distance occasionally (3K mile trips) and I'm curious how well the structure holds together on the bumpy highways of the USA. On that note, any known issues with the Lippert torsion axles?

Thank you.

grogers · 07-25-2020, 10:29 AM

If this is so; I'm not sure I want to buy a Micro Minnie. I thought they were a true 6-sided aluminum frame. When I think of wood; it makes me think of rot over time.

backtrack15 · 07-25-2020, 11:51 AM

I get it. The problem is there really isn't anything better out there that I am aware of in the Micro Minnie class. The Geo Pro trailers are technically 6-sided aluminum (including aluminum framed benches/beds) but I'm not thrilled with the framing design for the roof (watch the factory tour video if interested) and all of them are single-axle only at this point which limits my enthusiasm.

Stepping up to trailers that are 8-feet wide (not something I really want) leads to the Grand Design Imagine XLS series where both the roof and front wall are also wood framed (and I don't like the axles as much). The Rockwood Mini-Lites are an option as well, but the "forward-slant" front looks like it would be hell aerodynamically (and I don't want the extra width/height).

There are no easy choices here. Even with the wood framing, I still keep coming back to the Micro Minnie.

grogers · 07-26-2020, 10:51 AM

I understand; I'm in the same "boat". Hope your thread gets some good and useful feedback. I will be watching.

SonofBert · 07-27-2020, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backtrack15

I get it. The problem is there really isn't anything better out there that I am aware of in the Micro Minnie class. The Geo Pro trailers are technically 6-sided aluminum (including aluminum framed benches/beds) but I'm not thrilled with the framing design for the roof (watch the factory tour video if interested) and all of them are single-axle only at this point which limits my enthusiasm.

Stepping up to trailers that are 8-feet wide (not something I really want) leads to the Grand Design Imagine XLS series where both the roof and front wall are also wood framed (and I don't like the axles as much). The Rockwood Mini-Lites are an option as well, but the "forward-slant" front looks like it would be hell aerodynamically (and I don't want the extra width/height).

There are no easy choices here. Even with the wood framing, I still keep coming back to the Micro Minnie.

Micro Minnie is the best setup I've seen for a short, narrow, lightweight trailer. I'd love a front and rear window like some trailers have, but I also love dual everything the Winnebago has - dual LP tanks, dual batteries, dual axles, dual door fridge/freezer, dual sinks.

Add in 3-burner stove with oven, furnace ducted into the bathroom, walkable roof, big tanks, enclosed underbelly, reasonable cost, great resale value. Best bang for the buck trailer I've looked at.

seredni · 07-28-2020, 09:51 PM

We bought a 2018 Jayco Hummingbird new but sold it for our 2108 DS because the Hummingbird was too small; however our Jayco was very high quality and had absolutely no problems. We liked the light interior colors and the layout of the MW better than what Jayco was offering for 2020 but I would suggest you look at them. I think the have a similar layout. Just hate the two color choices this year.

grogers · 07-29-2020, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seredni

We bought a 2018 Jayco Hummingbird new but sold it for our 2108 DS because the Hummingbird was too small; however our Jayco was very high quality and had absolutely no problems. We liked the light interior colors and the layout of the MW better than what Jayco was offering for 2020 but I would suggest you look at them. I think the have a similar layout. Just hate the two color choices this year.

Back in the 90's I had a Jayco 5th wheel that I towed with a F250 diesel. Had the trailer for 8 years and never had one problem with it. On this site I read one problem after another with Winnebagos. It seems a person has to buy one close to a dealer, otherwise you will have problems getting it serviced or warranty work done close to home. Also, I've read from owners that no matter where you buy it you will need warranty work done on a Winnebago. Is this true? I thought Winnebago's built quality products. Just asking.

backtrack15 · 07-29-2020, 05:18 PM

The RV industry isn't like most industries. They get a pass on quality in ways other industries don't. If you're expecting to have a trailer that has zero issues for multiple years, I think you're destined to be disappointed... even with an Airstream.

I'm not sure any of them are built as well as they used to be. I can almost guarantee that if you wait until next year (for any make/model) things will be worse as they find more ways to save money.

Structurally, I think the move from aluminum to wood was a big step back for Winnebago, but it seems to have worked well enough for Grand Design (good reputation thus far, similar approach). It does help in terms of insulation.

I can't prove it but I'm very suspicious that the amount of aluminum used in modern "aluminum framed" side-walls is absolutely minimal. In the 1990s aluminum framing was real framing... with studs on a spacing and framing around all openings. Now it is literally the perimeter of the panel with extra studs only at major openings like the doors/slide-aperture. That's wall framing that is more like picture framing. Vast expanses of azdel/foam/luan lamination is expected to provide most of the support, with anchor plates for interior walls and cabinets inset into the lamination. Openings for windows and cargo doors are simply cut out of the lamination. I'm not a huge fan... but it is increasingly the norm here on the lighter end of the spectrum. Hence the original question.

Maybe I just talked myself out of this thing again...

It is worth remembering that people often come to forums to seek help with issues... so there is likely more than a little negative bias in this particular source.

backtrack15 · 07-29-2020, 07:03 PM

Here is a short video about the Winnebago towables wall lamination process if anyone is interested. I believe this applies to the side-walls only.

link

grogers · 07-30-2020, 10:30 AM

Thanks for the video; I do not see how that wall will hold up to the rough roads we have in this country. Maybe as I age I'm getting more negative about the quality of items we buy these days. It seems that QUALITY is disappearing from everything we buy these days. Nothing seems to last long anymore; everything needs to be replaced sooner. The only thing important to produces is the bottom-line: how can we make more money? I was really motivated to buy a new travel trailer but when I joined this site and reviewed all the problems associated with travel trailers I think I will just rent one for an occasional trip once in awhile.

backtrack15 · 07-30-2020, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grogers

... I think I will just rent one for an occasional trip once in awhile.

If you're only going to use it for one or two trips a year, renting would definitely be the way to go. The costs of ownership can be pretty high given insurance, storage fees, and depreciation. Just look for a rental group that makes maintenance a high priority (especially the axles/suspension) and uses good tires. You want to avoid being stuck somewhere on your vacation because the owner didn't do the appropriate preventative maintenance

The other thing to consider when buying a trailer is that you really need to be able to diagnose/fix the small things yourself. Unlike car dealerships, you can't always get a warranty service appointment in the near future. When I bought my Intech Pursue, I discovered an electrical problem the day after I brought it home... when I called and said "I just picked this up yesterday", the dealer said "we're sorry but the next available appointment is 8 weeks out." Needless to say, I addressed the problem on my own (it ended up being trivial). Even after you have an appointment, it isn't uncommon for repairs to take weeks depending on what parts and authorizations are involved. Camping season is too short to mess around with a dealership.

backtrack15 · 07-31-2020, 02:52 PM

The above few posts have been a little negative, so I wanted to relay something much more positive (karmic balance). My father has a Micro Minnie and we were speculating about a couple aspects of the drainage piping design that would have required quite a bit of effort to fully explore.

I read here last night that you could call the Winnebago Towables retail assistance line and they would provide schematics. I called today and the phone went to voice mail and I just hung up without leaving a message. Two minutes later they called me and apologized for missing my call! Now I have schematics for the drainage system, fresh water system, 12V electrical system, and 120V electrical system. I am beyond thrilled with the assistance I got today.

grogers · 07-31-2020, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backtrack15

The above few posts have been a little negative, so I wanted to relay something much more positive (karmic balance). My father has a Micro Minnie and we were speculating about a couple aspects of the drainage piping design that would have required quite a bit of effort to fully explore.

I read here last night that you could call the Winnebago Towables retail assistance line and they would provide schematics. I called today and the phone went to voice mail and I just hung up without leaving a message. Two minutes later they called me and apologized for missing my call! Now I have schematics for the drainage system, fresh water system, 12V electrical system, and 120V electrical system. I am beyond thrilled with the assistance I got today.

Nice gesture today on Winnebago's part BUT it does not change anything about Winnebago's quality and the loss of a true 6 sided aluminum frame that is now compose of wood parts. Seems like the quality is slipping and obviously you have some concerns about Winnebago's long term durability with the new frame. Otherwise you would have never posted this thread. Nice gestures; but they have nothing to do with a discussion about the quality of Winnebago's new frame. I hope your thread will get back to it's intended purpose. Just my .02 cents worth.

backtrack15 · 08-01-2020, 07:43 AM

The structure is my top concern. I'd prefer old style aluminum framing for all six sides. I'll tolerate wood framing as they have done, and even what appears to be minimal framing on the side walls provided it has a decent track record of holding together. I suppose there are two "steps" here. I believe the wood goes as far back as 2019 (but it may go further). The lack of complaints here on the forum of structural issues suggests the step to wood probably went ok. The one that bothers me a bit more, and the one that is the biggest gamble given the lack of data, is the way they decided to weld the framing here when they switched to Azdel 7-9 months ago (step two). You can see in the video (few posts back) that the best they can do is weld the aluminum tubing on three sides at each joint. My current Intech Pursue has a fully welded aluminum frame where the welds go all the way around each joint... and it has much more traditional framing. If it had a bathroom and could sleep four in a pinch I'd definitely keep it. Intech hasn't yet discovered the value of cargo carrying capacity... so their products that do have bathrooms are also over GVWR once you add batteries and a stack of paper plates.

Since we're talking structure... and not getting many comments... It'd be nice if someone had photos of a 2021 Micro Minnie (Azdel) where condensation had accumulated on the exterior due to the AC running overnight. Then we could get a better idea for the arrangement of the aluminum framing. Anybody willing to share these?

SonofBert · 08-01-2020, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by backtrack15

The structure is my top concern. I'd prefer old style aluminum framing for all six sides. I'll tolerate wood framing as they have done, and even what appears to be minimal framing on the side walls provided it has a decent track record of holding together. I suppose there are two "steps" here. I believe the wood goes as far back as 2019 (but it may go further). The lack of complaints here on the forum of structural issues suggests the step to wood probably went ok. The one that bothers me a bit more, and the one that is the biggest gamble given the lack of data, is the way they decided to weld the framing here when they switched to Azdel 7-9 months ago (step two). You can see in the video (few posts back) that the best they can do is weld the aluminum tubing on three sides at each joint.

I can see that could be a problem with flexing. Not welding until the studs are in place and not welding four sides is cost-cutting and streamlining the construction process.

This video from 2017, even though it's a motorhome, shows some of the frame is welded first, THEN inserted into cutouts in the sidewall insulation. It's not clear if all four sides are pre-welded prior to insertion in the sidewall sandwich. Also looks like there is some welding done after the pre-welded portions are inserted.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZDkHZjtZYs

backtrack15 · 08-01-2020, 01:32 PM

Thanks for the video. I found an even older video and it looks like they've used almost exactly the same process for their aluminum walls since at least 2010. The differences appear to be that the Azdel is one continuous sheet while the luan before was separate panels placed next to each other. The welding approach looks the same. That makes me feel better about it.

2010 factory tour

KGs2108DS · 08-02-2020, 04:58 PM

thanks everyone. Just returned from 2wk boon-docking 2018 Micro Minnie in Colorado (retracing the 4th expedition route 1849 of John C. Fremont). LOTS of rough, high mountain driving, and a ziplock bag (forensic relics) w/various hardware found on the floor upon arrival at campground destinations. So, yes, I sure which the whole thing was put together much better with fasteners of all sorts that would NOT come loose w/vibration! the back wall is aluminum studs (not sure of front), and Winnebago has been very good at providing blueprints and schematics. After all that I would say functionally everything worked quite well, and it was so wonderful to have all the amenities of home in this little 22' trailer (LP refrigerator, stove, oven, furnace, hot water, lights, shower, toilet, soft bed... the most startling event was that on a very wash-boardy road with a 25mph crosswind, the emergency egress window popped out and was flapping the the wind :-) but, we got it back in it's casing and tied the red clamp handles down so they could not vibrate loose again.

backtrack15 · 08-02-2020, 07:09 PM

Thanks for the trip feedback. It sounds like you had quite the adventure. I'm glad what returned home with you still resembled the trailer with which you departed. It sounds like the 2018 models retained an aluminum rear wall, so that is also good to know.

I called Winnebago Towables back in January about the 2021 models and got through to an engineer who informed me the rear wall was wood framing with fiberglass insulation. The current construction guide clearly shows the wood framing for the roof and the front in photos. It then says "...the entire front, roof, and back are insulated with fiberglass insulation." This suggests to me that the rear wall is not constructed like the side walls (aluminum with foam insulation). It might be aluminum, but I really doubt it based on the engineer's comments. I also believe, based on my discussion with the engineer, that the rear wall and slide-out end walls use luan as the backer for the fiberglass (not Azdel). The fiberglass is MAX fiberglass by Crane Composites.

przero · 08-03-2020, 12:33 PM

We have a 2013 2101FBS that we bought used in 2017. We have put 30,000 miles on it and I don't recall finding ANY issues due to travel...

Mono2 · 08-04-2020, 05:32 AM

I have a 2020 MM 2106DS that I bought last July. To date, I’ve put about 3K miles on it and the biggest problem so far is the interior trim that’s starting to loosen up in various places. The black tank is giving erroneous readings as well (shows 2/3 full when empty). Aside from that I’ve been pretty pleased with it. This is my first RV purchase.
Trips include 4-5 trips to SW PA from central OH and a couple of local one hour trips. PA geography where I drop anchor is hilly, rooty, rutty and muddy. This rig does well in all of the above.
Good luck with ur decision.
Mono