1800BH Hitch Weight Issue

[dhealey56]

I recently bought a Micro Minnie 1800BH. We've taken it out a few times and we love it! That said I'm pretty concerned about the hitch weight...

I just tried to measure the tongue weight using a bathroom scale with a max capacity of 550 pounds and the scale gave a max weight fault before I even got all the weight onto it. The trailer is currently sitting on my flat driveway with all 3 tanks empty and hardly anything else in it. Also one propane tank is almost empty. To get the weight I made an upside down 'T' out of 2x6's, set it on the scale, and lowered the tongue on to the T. The 2x6's weigh around 10lbs, so that's not the issue...

I know that the published hitch weight of 382 is dry, but the difference I'm seeing here is crazy, especially given that the trailer is empty and one propane tank is low. Is this a common issue with this unit? Anyone have any suggestions on things to look at or change?

[Marine359]

Problem here is your bathroom scale. My bathroom scale always tells me I weigh 10lbs more than I think I weigh.

It can’t be possible for a new MM to go from 382 dry to 500 almost dry. The only way that could happen is if somehow water was getting into caps, sidewalls or under the floor.

Many dealers have accurate tongue scales. If you’re near your dealer, ask for a weigh-in. I think Camping World also has them. You might want to call ahead to see if they’ll weigh you if you shop at their store. If you go to a cat scale, you can weigh tv hitched, and then unhitched.

[dhealey56]

Thanks for the response, and I have similar issues with my scale!

I stopped by a CAT scale on our way home from the last trip but only had a chance to weigh everything all together, the scale was crazy busy and I couldn't find an empty spot to drop the trailer... My weights are below, the difference between my steer and drive axle weights made me concerned about my hitch weight.

Steer: 2480
Drive: 3400
Trailer: 3940

I'm within my limits for axle and GCVW, but if this hitch weight of over 500lbs is correct I'm over my allowable hitch weight. I'm driving a 5th gen 4Runner.

It's been dry so I can't imagine there's water anywhere. I'll see if I can get a more accurate reading somewhere. Thanks again.

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by dhealey56

Steer: 2480
Drive: 3400
Trailer: 3940

I'm within my limits for axle and GCVW, but if this hitch weight of over 500lbs is correct I'm over my allowable hitch weight. I'm driving a 5th gen 4Runner.

What is “allowable hitch weight”? Never heard of that. Your hitch weight must not cause you to exceed the payload of the tow vehicle. Is that what you meant?

If you weighed in hitched and are using a WDH, you’re transferring weight from trailer to tow vehicle. Since your dry weight is 3660, seems reasonable to me that your weigh in indicates weight transferred to tv through your hitch. If your 4 Runner GVWR is 6,100 lbs, you’re getting close to exceeding tv GVWR depending on how many people and gear you put in there.

We boy wat to know for sure I guess, is to weigh the tongue.

[dhealey56]

Originally Posted by Marine359

What is “allowable hitch weight”? Never heard of that. Your hitch weight must not cause you to exceed the payload of the tow vehicle. Is that what you meant?

I meant the maximum tongue weight - the 4runner has a max towing capacity of 5000lbs and a max tongue weight of 500lbs.

I was fully loaded up when I stopped at the scale and my GVWR is 6300 so I don't think I'm in much danger there. The GCWR is 11,300lbs, so again I've got room. It's just the tongue weight restriction that's an issue.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by dhealey56

I meant the maximum tongue weight - the 4runner has a max towing capacity of 5000lbs and a max tongue weight of 500lbs.

I was fully loaded up when I stopped at the scale and my GVWR is 6300 so I don't think I'm in much danger there. The GCWR is 11,300lbs, so again I've got room. It's just the tongue weight restriction that's an issue.

I have the same concern, I tow with a Tacoma 4 x 4 Double Cab V6

Towing capacity (TWR) is 6400 lbs

GCWR is 11,270 lbs

GVWR is 5610 lbs

GAWR Front is 2900 lbs

GAWR Rear is 3284 lbs

Payload is 1000 lb (tongue weight, passengers, cargo in box)

UVW for a 2101 is 3780

UVW for a 2106 is 3705

When you start with an tongue weight of 360 - 460lbs, which includes two empty 20lb propane tanks and no battery/batteries.

You add dual 6 Volt AGM Deep Cycle Batteries @ 65 lbs each (120 lbs tongue weight)

You add an Electric hitch if not provided equals another 20 lbs tongue weight

You upgrade to two full 30lb Propane Bottles you add another 18 lbs each (36 lbs tongue weight).

Storage in the 2101 and 2106 is under the bed at the front (more tongue weight).


You add two people in the vehicle, canopy on the truck, maybe a car topper on the truck canopy, you haven't put anything in the box of the pickup yet.

I don't think its possible to stay under the payload capacity of these light vehicles even though, your under the towing capacity (TWR) and the total GCWR rating.

Department of Highway scales if pulled over will pick up a Rear Axle Weight Exceeding the limit for sure where everything else could be within limits.

Comments,

Thanks

[RocknRoll]

Originally Posted by Bcborn

You add dual 6 Volt AGM Deep Cycle Batteries @ 65 lbs each (120 lbs tongue weight)

I highly recommend dumping the 6V batteries

I bought my rig used with dual 6V batteries on the tongue. Replaced them with a single LifeP04 battery relocated to the passthru. That alone saved 85 lbs not to mention faster recharge rates and zero maintenance (note that this upgrade also requires swapping out the converter/charger).

To improve weight distribution, I then relocated the spare tire from the bumper to under the tongue with a tire winch (the extra height on the MM allows this).

Spare tire relocation
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3892791

[Marine359]

12% of the 1800BH GVWR is just over 500lbs. Unless you overload the tongue and pass thru. 500 is a good weight. Like Rock, I also put LiFePo4 in pass thru, and replaced tongue mount battery with a tool box I use for ground tackle. When I carry extra water, I use 7gal jug carried under dinette right over the axles. My wet weight is 4600lbs, and the tongue weighs 550. If you try to take too much weight off the tongue, no bueno

[backtrack15]

Originally Posted by Bcborn

I have the same concern, I tow with a Tacoma 4 x 4 Double Cab V6

Towing capacity (TWR) is 6400 lbs...

Payload is 1000 lb (tongue weight, passengers, cargo in box)...


I don't think its possible to stay under the payload capacity of these light vehicles even though, your under the towing capacity (TWR) and the total GCWR rating.

Department of Highway scales if pulled over will pick up a Rear Axle Weight Exceeding the limit for sure where everything else could be within limits.

Comments,

Thanks

I agree it can be extremely difficult to get by with 1000 lbs of payload capacity. Luckily you only have two people in the vehicle. It's not hard at all with a Micro Minnie to have the tongue weight at 500 lbs given that the largest storage areas are toward the front (except BH models).

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by RocknRoll

I highly recommend dumping the 6V batteries

I bought my rig used with dual 6V batteries on the tongue. Replaced them with a single LifeP04 battery relocated to the passthru. That alone saved 85 lbs not to mention faster recharge rates and zero maintenance (note that this upgrade also requires swapping out the converter/charger).

To improve weight distribution, I then relocated the spare tire from the bumper to under the tongue with a tire winch (the extra height on the MM allows this).

Spare tire relocation
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...ml#post3892791

What length between charges do you get from the single Lithium, do you have solar, if so how much? I have a Battle Born 100AmpHr I use for my Minkota trolling motor, great battery. What was involved in switching out the converter/charger for a lithium model.

Why move the spare to the tongue, it would just add more weight to the tongue, I need tongue weight to stay under 700lbs utilizing the pass through.

The tongue/hitch weight on the 2101 is 460lbs and the tongue/hitch weight on the 2106 is 360lbs dry. Backtrack, what do you think your running for tongue weight without modification.

[RocknRoll]

Originally Posted by Bcborn

What length between charges do you get from the single Lithium, do you have solar, if so how much? I have a Battle Born 100AmpHr I use for my Minkota trolling motor, great battery. What was involved in switching out the converter/charger for a lithium model.

Why move the spare to the tongue, it would just add more weight to the tongue, I need tongue weight to stay under 700lbs utilizing the pass through.

The tongue/hitch weight on the 2101 is 460lbs and the tongue/hitch weight on the 2106 is 360lbs dry. Backtrack, what do you think your running for tongue weight without modification.

I don't boondock much, especially for extended periods. I have a 137AH battery with 100W panel that keeps it somewhat topped off. In addition, I also use a 500W portable "solar generator" to power a 12V fridge that I keep outside. Ample enough for a night or two. Swapping out the charger/converter takes less than an hour and I believe I paid $175.

After shedding the 6V battery, moving the tire and toolbox to the tongue was a net zero gain/loss. This redistribution with an overall weight savings noticeably improved towing. Moving weight closer to or above the axle(s) (CG) with a 15% tongue weight as Marine359 posted is always optimal as long as you're under GVWR.

Just a guess, but if you're payload is 1000lbs, you're probably already near capacity with 2 adults, full tank of gas and the tongue weight by itself. I've gone to CAT scales multiple times to get actual readings and tweak my setup as necessary. There is MAX GVWR and GVWR per axle. Know the difference.

I've used the real time calculators from changingears.com to assist with GVWR.
https://changingears.com/

https://changingears.com/weight-calc...ht-calculator/


Since you are new to this site, I suggest/recommend creating a signature to include your rig configuration so any questions you ask can be answered per your setup. Good luck!

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by RocknRoll

Just a guess, but if you're payload is 1000lbs, you're probably already near capacity with 2 adults, full tank of gas and the tongue weight by itself. I've gone to CAT scales multiple times to get actual readings and tweak my setup as necessary. There is MAX GVWR and GVWR per axle. Know the difference.

For me it's determining an ACCURATE UVW of a 2016 Micro Minnie with full tanks (preferably 30lb tanks), Power Tongue Jack and Dual 6 Volt Batteries. As you said I can shed some weight and move to Lithium and will do if need be. If I have to stay with 20 lb tanks, not an issue, just have to fill more often.

A 2016 Micro Minnie is said to have a a UVW of 3705 (No Battery, One Empty 20lb Propane, Manual Jack). If this weight is accurate, (many say it is not) they report the tongue weight to be 360 lbs (9.7%).

My truck full of gas, myself, wife, dog and canopy take up 319 lbs of payload. If the numbers above are correct, that leaves me with 321 lbs for additional tongue weight (batteries, propane, cargo (that impacts tongue weight).

With my old Kodiak I had to put heavy items at rear of trailer to offset tongue weight (generator, BBQ, Camp Fire, Tote of Propane Hoses, bikes on rear trailer hitch. To also keep tongue weight low additional gear that had weight was placed over trailer axle. The lighter stuff went into the pass-thru some in the truck in-front of the rear axles.

Pulling up the equalizer bars a notch transferred some of the weight from the rear axle to reduce it slightly and it increased front axle weight near unloaded reading. I was never over on the GVWR or GAWR for either axle.

It is my understanding tongue weight should never be less than 10%. Heavier tongue weights increase rear GAWR and lessen front GAWR. To reduce rear GAWR and Increase front GAWR one can increase the tension on the equalizer bars. You would never want to exceed the rated GAWR on either front or rear axles, nor would you want to reduce the GAWR on either front or rear axles below the unloaded readings. Would bet every unit going down the road with the headlights pointing to the sky and the rear bumper touching the ground is not in compliance.

I just want someone to provide me with an ACCURATE (100%) Trailer Weight and Tongue Weight of a 2016 Micro Minnie 2106. The weights must be with no batteries and no propane tanks or with two full propane tanks (what size used), Batteries (what size, how many). State if weights are with Manual or Electric Tongue Jack.

I have seen many owners of Toyota Tacoma pickups towing Micro Minnie's, where are you in the crowd.

[Marine359]

The only way to get an accurate tongue weight is to weigh it. Either with a tongue scale or by weighing disconnected on a CAT scale. Everybody will have a slightly different tongue weight depending on equipment configuration, and the amount of weight in the pass through.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by Marine359

The only way to get an accurate tongue weight is to weigh it. Either with a tongue scale or by weighing disconnected on a CAT scale. Everybody will have a slightly different tongue weight depending on equipment configuration, and the amount of weight in the pass through.

Totally agree here.

If it exists, I'm looking for that person that has gone thru this exercise and weighed their barebones trailer when they bought it (noting any options included in weight) and before adding any weight to the trailer (especially pass-thru).

Many dealers sell you a battery, upgrade you to an electric jack and maybe fill the propane before you drive it off the lot. This would be a good time to get a trailer weight and a tongue weight.

But no, many consumers will be sold a trailer and the seller hooks it to your Mazda 3 and says thanks, enjoy.

[backtrack15]

I weighed my 2021b 2100BH at purchase. Total trailer weight was within 100 lbs of the advertised value (after accounting for my bigger propane tanks and batteries). My tongue weight was 550-575 dry due to the full 30 lb tanks and twin 6V batteries.

Take a tongue scale with you when you find a viable unit and measure the tongue weight.

I’ll be honest though, if possible, you might be happier switching to a used Tundra with the extended cab and bigger box. There should be plenty of used ones on the market soon as people swap to the new 2022 Tundra.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by backtrack15

I weighed my 2021b 2100BH at purchase. Total trailer weight was within 100 lbs of the advertised value (after accounting for my bigger propane tanks and batteries). My tongue weight was 550-575 dry due to the full 30 lb tanks and twin 6V batteries.

Take a tongue scale with you when you find a viable unit and measure the tongue weight.

I’ll be honest though, if possible, you might be happier switching to a used Tundra with the extended cab and bigger box. There should be plenty of used ones on the market soon as people swap to the new 2022 Tundra.

Well Done, Dual 6 Volt Batteries weight approx 120 lbs and dual 30 lbs Propane Tanks Full weigh about 114 lbs. Factory reports Tongue weight on 2100BH to be 430 lbs. Factory reporting light by 89 lbs, pretty good,

Assume it had the Electric Tongue Jack so no change there.

I think everyone will agree Payload will be maxed by Tongue Weight before before GCVW maxes out in most cases?

If the 2106 Micro Minnie factory reported Tongue weight is only 100 lbs lighter than the actual with dual 6 volt batteries and full 30 lb propane tanks installed, their should not be an issue. It will be the cargo and placement of the cargo.

[backtrack15]

As you have mentioned before, you want a minimum tongue weight of 10-12% of the total trailer weight. I have no reason, based on my experience, to think that the advertised dry weights for the 2016 MM 2106 would be wildly off. So, I’d say it’s worth looking for one. Just take a tongue scale and measure the tongue weight before you buy it. You should be able to look at what is installed on it and decide if it likely weighs much more than when new (based on mods) and if you can get it where it needs to be (both tongue weight and total weight).

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by backtrack15

As you have mentioned before, you want a minimum tongue weight of 10-12% of the total trailer weight. I have no reason, based on my experience, to think that the advertised dry weights for the 2016 MM 2106 would be wildly off. So, I’d say it’s worth looking for one. Just take a tongue scale and measure the tongue weight before you buy it. You should be able to look at what is installed on it and decide if it likely weighs much more than when new (based on mods) and if you can get it where it needs to be (both tongue weight and total weight).

Off the top of my head, I know I'm going to be close. I might have to scale back from two 6 Volt Batteries to a Lithium Battery. I might also have to run dual 20 lb propane tanks instead of dual 30 lb propane tanks.

I will most definately have to load the heavier gear in the rear of the trailer and put a minimal amount in the pass-thru.

Equalizer bars transfer weight from the rear axle to the front axle. From experience adjusting the bars higher reduces rear axle GAWR and moves it to the front. Moving gear from the front of the trailer to the rear of the trailer reduces rear axle GAWR.

One must keep in mind the tongue weight must be no less than 10% of what the trailer weighs once the owner has loaded it.

I don't know exactly what the maximum weight can be moved from the rear axle to the front axle with a good equalizer setup. But as long as its not less than the unloaded truck measurement and not over the rear GAWR it's good, you have the traction needed.

And if the transferred weight to the front axles is close to the unloaded measurement you will have adequate steering. Follow the manufacturers hitch instruction for set up. The distance from the ground to the wheel well must be within spec when all done.

Seeing many trailers on the road this is not being done, everything is diving at the hitch. Trailer should be level and truck, at stock ride heights or only down slightly from stock ride height.

[Marine359]

Try to keep weight under the dinette where it’s right over the axles. Tanks are near axles as well. Keep only light stuff in the truck bed. The rest goes in the pass thru. I’ve experimented on loading until I got the right mix where I’m just under rear gawr (which is the most important measure). Everything else will fall into place if you don’t overload the tongue. 30lb propane tanks unnecessary. Get rid of the dual 6v. Even if you replace with 100w AGM, you’ll save a lot of weight. You’ll save more with LiFePo4.

[Bcborn]

Originally Posted by Marine359

Try to keep weight under the dinette where it’s right over the axles. Tanks are near axles as well. Keep only light stuff in the truck bed. The rest goes in the pass thru. I’ve experimented on loading until I got the right mix where I’m just under rear gawr (which is the most important measure). Everything else will fall into place if you don’t overload the tongue. 30lb propane tanks unnecessary. Get rid of the dual 6v. Even if you replace with 100w AGM, you’ll save a lot of weight. You’ll save more with LiFePo4.

Thanks, The 2108 has slightly higher numbers (50 lbs more reported tongue) than the 2106. The Canyon also has 300 lbs each more GAWR front and rear than the Tacoma.

What did you end up with trailer GVW loaded?

What were your axle weights 1, 2 , 3 when measured?

I was able to remove 180 lbs from the rear GAWR by preloading the 600 lb E2 bars more. I still wasn't happy as my tongue weight was over 600, so I bought 800 lb E2 bars but never checked again.

With the longer trailer I intend to go with the Equalizer 1000/10000 4 Point hitch. I like you, feel it's pretty much doable however close and strategy loading will need apply.

My decision to look at the Micro Minnie was from seeing many owners towing with Frontiers, Tacoma's, Ridgeline's etc....