winter camping

Bugzapr · 11-08-2021, 08:29 PM

We have a new 2021 Minnie Winnie 22m and would like to do some cold weather camping this year. Does anyone have any suggestions on this. we would like to travel on short trips of 2-3 weeks leaving Massachusetts and heading a little south to avoid coldest weather. We have blown out lines ,drained water heater and antifreeze to drains according to manual, with the thought of quick escape.All inputs are welcome Thanks Barry

meyeet · 11-09-2021, 07:14 AM

Some good tips were provided in this thread:
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/f257/advice-for-newbie-snowbirds-maine-to-florida-january-2022-a-362599.html

Bugzapr · 11-09-2021, 07:33 AM

Thank you Eric, some very good info for us Barry

**creativepart** · 11-09-2021, 08:20 AM

Berry, one thing you are sure to discover, and should be aware of upfront, is that RV's are very poorly insulated and inadequately sealed up.

The very walls of your RV, even with the heater running, do get very cold and can even be covered with condensation from the propane heater running for hours at a time.

Also, you'll learn that the propane furnace goes through a lot of propane fairly quickly. Plus, if not plugged in the 12v fan on the furnace uses a lot of battery power, as well.

Not trying to talk you out of winter camping, but you should have a realistic idea of issues you are likely to encounter.

Most of us use the RV to drive us to warmer temps and manufacturers know that poor winter performance is not likely to come back to bite them for not doing better.

DavidM · 11-09-2021, 08:49 AM

Starting out from Massachusetts with a fully winterized RV each time is a good first step. How far south do you plan to go during each 2-3 week trip? I suspect your first stop will be in NY, NJ or Pa along the way. I would not dewinterize at that stop. Use bottled water and dump a cup or so of antifreeze down the toilet after each pee. Try not to do #2 and use the campground's facilities including showers.

Why? Even though you can stay in the low to mid 20s overnight with an unwinterized RV, as soon as you leave early in the morning the 65 mph wind will quickly freeze the plumbing underneath. As creativepart notes above, RVs are very poorly insulated.

Only when you get to where you want to stay for a while would I dewinterize and even then leave late in the morning if the temps were below zero overnight to let the temps warm up a bit.

I did this in Montana in October as well as Lake Tahoe in early November and even though the overnight temps got down to the low 20s, it warmed up to 32+ by about 9-10:00 in the morning and it was then safe to drive away.

When you head back to Massachusetts, winterize before you leave and follow the bottled water and antifreeze pee flush procedure all the way back home.

David

backtrack15 · 11-09-2021, 10:57 AM

I agree with David’s overall approach above. It’s easiest and lowest risk to keep the pressurized plumbing dry until you get to more moderate climates.

**creativepart** · 11-09-2021, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidM

as soon as you leave early in the morning the 65 mph wind will quickly freeze the plumbing underneath.

I've noted that David has posted this advice a few times recently. I surely don't wish to argue with DavidM about his theory but I don't think it's accurate. Of course, there is no way to prove this either way.

It does sound like it has some logic to it... but perhaps it has more to do with the kind of RV more than anything else.

Most motorhomes do not have exposed plumbing beneath the under belly of the RV. I know water lines are absent underneath my motorhome and only the chassis mechanicals and some propane lines are exposed under my RV.

If driving in cold weather during the morning was an issue in cold weather we'd have these issues anytime driving at altitude in anything but the warmest parts of summer. I've been over mountain passes that are in the 20 to 30 degree range and even snowing hard in June and July at mid-day.

Maybe there are some kinds of RVs that are susceptible to this issue. I've just never heard anyone suggest that this was a generalized problem.

DavidM · 11-09-2021, 01:17 PM

As I noted in my private mail to creativepart, driving at 65 mph increases the heat transfer at a 25 deg outside temperature by four times at 65 mph. So if 25 F will freeze your pipes in 8 hours while camped, driving at 65 mph will do it in 2 hours.

The water pipes in my MH lay on a sheet of 1/2" plywood which is exposed to the elements on the outside. They are in a compartment underneath the bed. So not much insulation as the R value of 1/2" plywood is 0.6, which is half that of a single pane window.

So I do think that driving 65 mph produces a tremendous wind chill factor which dramatically increases heat transfer.

BTW, if the outside temps are 33 degrees the water in your pipes will never freeze even at supersonic speeds.

David

Marine359 · 11-09-2021, 01:21 PM

As David and Backtrack noted, your plumbing may freeze while driving, (less likely in a MH) so don’t de-winterize. However the rv has enough thermal mass to keep water jugs inside rv above the floor line without freezing. A 7gal reliance jug can give you enough water to wash, drink, and live off of for a few days until you gat someplace warmer. If you need to camp in the cold for a few nights, a 12v electric blanket will keep you warm with the furnace set to 55F. You will need to vent moisture out by running a vent fan for a few minutes. It will be helpful to have at least 100ah useable battery bank to keep your furnace going. And charge up battery every morning. We’ve been in cold for over a week (not extreme) and we’re able to be comfortable. BTW, if your rv is small, just heating up water on the range to make coffee. Will heat up the whole camper.

youracman · 11-09-2021, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meyeet

Some good tips were provided in this thread:
https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/f257/advice-for-newbie-snowbirds-maine-to-florida-january-2022-a-362599.html

Also, the active thread just 5 lines below (in this Class C forum) is also a good read IMHO.

https://www.winnieowners.com/forums/...an-362702.html

**Eagle5** · 11-09-2021, 04:22 PM

Hi Barry,
Did you get the optional black & grey tank heaters? Also, did you get the optional double-pane windows? I think both of those are helpful.
I also purchased an insulated window cover for the cab, and they are great in the cold weather.
Eagle5

Bugzapr · 11-09-2021, 07:20 PM

Wow, blown away by all those who responded to me and provided thier expertise. I know there may be some different points of views and I am really thankful to have this resource.
We did get the tank heaters and double pane windows which is a plus. Not thinking of extreme cold weather so all these inputs will help us. Marine, Thank You for serving our magnificent USA. Our trip is going forward Tuuesday after Thanksgiving. Thanks to all, Barry

Phil G. · 11-10-2021, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugzapr

Wow, blown away by all those who responded to me and provided thier expertise. I know there may be some different points of views and I am really thankful to have this resource.
We did get the tank heaters and double pane windows which is a plus. Not thinking of extreme cold weather so all these inputs will help us. Marine, Thank You for serving our magnificent USA. Our trip is going forward Tuuesday after Thanksgiving. Thanks to all, Barry

Are your tank heaters 12V DC so that they can be powered by your RV batteries ... or are they 120V AC heaters so that that they need to be powered by an inverter, a generator, or hookups?

12V DC tank heaters are far more versatile, as they can be used in cold air temperatures anytime, anywhere - whether camped with/without hookups and when driving down the road at speed.

**creativepart** · 11-10-2021, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil G.

12V DC tank heaters are far more versatile, as they can be used in cold air temperatures anytime, anywhere

But... be aware that tank heaters use a large amount of power - no matter if they are 12v or 120v. So, if you are camping without power be careful how long your leave them on. Or you'll find your house batteries depleted quickly.

Marine359 · 11-10-2021, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugzapr

Wow, blown away by all those who responded to me and provided thier expertise. I know there may be some different points of views and I am really thankful to have this resource.
We did get the tank heaters and double pane windows which is a plus. Not thinking of extreme cold weather so all these inputs will help us. Marine, Thank You for serving our magnificent USA. Our trip is going forward Tuuesday after Thanksgiving. Thanks to all, Barry

It was an honor to serve. Best job in America.
If you don’t de-winterize, you should have enough pink in your waste tanks to protect from freezing. So the only tank freeze risk is fresh water. Many MH have fresh tank above basement, so risk is low. Don’t know about where yours is, but if it’s exposed under frame, a heater would be a good investment. If it’s above frame, you’re probably ok while driving, as your coach will not get that cold inside.

akeagle · 11-14-2021, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bugzapr

We have a new 2021 Minnie Winnie 22m and would like to do some cold weather camping this year. Does anyone have any suggestions on this. we would like to travel on short trips of 2-3 weeks leaving Massachusetts and heading a little south to avoid coldest weather. We have blown out lines ,drained water heater and antifreeze to drains according to manual, with the thought of quick escape.All inputs are welcome Thanks Barry

A couple months ago we drove from Alaska to southern New Mexico as part of a permanent move. We've been living in our Minnie Winnie for most of those two months, and we can vouch 100% for what Creativepart said in his first post. So far of course the winter season is very mild here in Deming with nighttime temps as low as the mid 30s. I won't for a second try to equate that with Northern temperatures, but I will say that at best the R-value for the coach is certainly no more than the fingers on one hand. Thus, the propane heater works pretty hard at night. Probably on for 10 minutes or so, off for maybe 20 minutes, then the cycle repeats. And that's with ambient temps in the mid 30s to mid 40s. A full tank of propane is lasting about a week and a half which of course will get worse as the temps drop more. Even though our situation is nothing compared to actual winter camping, I would have second thoughts about getting into that unless there were no other good choices.

Jos 56 · 11-14-2021, 04:59 PM

We found during our trip to the Arctic Ocean that having separate comforters and supplementing those with 3 season sleeping bags helped keep the heat in the bed. That way you are not relying on your 12 volt batteries, which are also affected by cold. The temperature would go down to 15 degrees F overnight and above freezing during the day. We did not winterize as between use of the furnace for 30 minutes to get ready for bed and again to start breakfast, we had no issues.

PWRving · 11-15-2021, 02:18 AM

If you’ve done it once, you’ll probably never do it again.
Cold weather camping/RVing bears no resemblance to warmer weather.
You have to decide for yourself. I got caught in a cold snap in Delaware for a week. NEVER again. It was a very unpleasant experience without a four seasons RV.

DavidM · 11-15-2021, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PWRving

If you’ve done it once, you’ll probably never do it again.
Cold weather camping/RVing bears no resemblance to warmer weather.
You have to decide for yourself. I got caught in a cold snap in Delaware for a week. NEVER again. It was a very unpleasant experience without a four seasons RV.

What were the problems and how did you resolve them? Were you at a FHC?

David

John Mo · 11-15-2021, 06:23 AM

I used my RV as housing on an out of town job and wintered over 3 times.

Plumbing's been discussed, so here are a couple of different tips.

I was stationary, so I was able to have large external propane tanks. Even if you're going to be on the move, you might want to add an Extend a Stay adapter and maybe carry a 20lb propane tank for some extra furnace fuel.

Assuming you'll have shore power, the single biggest game changer for me was an electric blanket for the bed. This will reduce how much you need to run the furnace and it's sure nice to get into a preheated bed. I had a small ceramic heater that I moved around to put heat where I was rather than running the furnace to keep the whole unit warm.