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Old 11-29-2020, 02:17 PM   #1
Winnie-Wise
 
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Poor installs from dealer and Winnebago

We bought a 2021 Navion last month and Winnebago did the installation of two Zamp 100W panels and the 3-port roof cap, and the dealer installed the Winegard antenna array on the roof. Both a panel and the Winegard need to be moved which is more than a little irritating.
The Winegard is supposed to be mounted 12 inches or more away from the side of the RV and anythingt that could block its antennas. But the installer at Guaranty RV has never read the instructions and mounted it right behind the top bunk fiberglass and right next to the power awning housing.

Winnebago's people mounted two 100W Zamp panels on the roof but mounted the one on the left side a full foot further back than the one on the right side and so makes it impossible to add a third panel unless I remove it from the mounting feet and use 4 new feet to locate it where it should have been in the first place.



The Winnebago installer also left the extra 15 feet of cable up on the roof in a bundle which is as unprofessional a job as I have ever seen from any factory for anything. Why is it considered OK to do work like this on an expensive RV?



I will also be fabricating a skirt around the batteries as on the Navion it is completely open to the elements. The tray on ours is covered with road gravel and sand. There is also a chassis battery cable connection that is also exposed to the elements and this will make it so it cannot be disconnected in the future. It also rubs on the front edge of the battery tray which is also something that I also will need to fix.



I bought a new RV in the hope of not spending time up on the roof or on my back under the coach but at least with the 2021 Navion this was clearly a pipe dream.
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Old 11-29-2020, 02:35 PM   #2
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While you're underneath the Navion, you might consider inverting the u-bolts on the engine exhaust pipe, and the generator exhaust pipe. It's an easy mod that will make it less likely to catch on some road debris or other point of contact with the road. Gives you a little more ground clearance.
Also, if you have the holding tank heaters, I had to trace the wires from point of origin to the tanks, and encase them in some plastic flexible wiring conduit I bought at Harbor Freight. I added some extra cable ties to keep them up away from the roadway. Just to keep the exposed wires from snagging on anything I drive over, and to protect them a little better than the dealer install which left them vulnerable.
Enjoy your new rig.
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:05 PM   #3
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We all feel your pain. For a great many installs, repairs, updates and upgrades a great many of us (most?) have learned the hard lesson that if you want it done right on your RV you have to do it yourself.

I doubt many of us really want it to be like that - but it is what it is.
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkman View Post
We bought a 2021 Navion last month and Winnebago did the installation of two Zamp 100W panels and the 3-port roof cap, and the dealer installed the Winegard antenna array on the roof.

Both a panel and the Winegard need to be moved which is more than a little irritating.

Are you saying that while at the Mfg in Forest City; Winnebago the Mfg improperly installed solar panels? If so; what did Winnebago say?


The Winegard is supposed to be mounted 12 inches or more away from the side of the RV and anythingt that could block its antennas. But the installer at Guaranty RV has never read the instructions and mounted it right behind the top bunk fiberglass and right next to the power awning housing.

Seems like there would have been some discussion / agreement on exactly where to mount the Winegard, but since there was not, what is Guaranty saying?

Winnebago's people mounted two 100W Zamp panels on the roof but mounted the one on the left side a full foot further back than the one on the right side and so makes it impossible to add a third panel unless I remove it from the mounting feet and use 4 new feet to locate it where it should have been in the first place.

I assume they did not know you were planning to later add a third panel? Are they saying they will not move? Is doing all 3 panels now an option? If you plan to do so anyway, you may get more returns?


The Winnebago installer also left the extra 15 feet of cable up on the roof in a bundle which is as unprofessional a job as I have ever seen from any factory for anything. Why is it considered OK to do work like this on an expensive RV? If this install is done by Mfg, they must have standard procedure for these installs. If it is okay to ask, what are they saying or the other half of the story? Sounds like they may have been trying to be prepared if it needed to be moved, which also appears to be the case?


I will also be fabricating a skirt around the batteries as on the Navion it is completely open to the elements. The tray on ours is covered with road gravel and sand. There is also a chassis battery cable connection that is also exposed to the elements and this will make it so it cannot be disconnected in the future. It also rubs on the front edge of the battery tray which is also something that I also will need to fix.



I bought a new RV in the hope of not spending time up on the roof or on my back under the coach but at least with the 2021 Navion this was clearly a pipe dream.
Congratulations on your new RV I just finished my 1st year of brand new Winnebago. While I have not had to have anything done by the Mfg. A Winnebago Dealer and Winnebago's Customer support has been nothing but flawless for us. Maybe I have been hoodwinked, but they have been very responsive with my every call. The Dealer I use for all of the warranty and service is NOT the dealer we purchased from If I ever buy another new coach, I would be skiddish to try another Mfg and would do my best to use the dealer that is taking care of us now.
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Old 12-05-2020, 11:07 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkman View Post
But the installer at Guaranty RV...
Was this at Guaranty RV in Junction City, Oregon?
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Old 12-11-2020, 01:45 PM   #6
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Yes Guaranty RV is in Junction City OR. The two Zamp 100W panels were put on at the Winnebago factory using a Zamp kit. One panel was located properly but the other panel was mounted mored than 8 inches further back and prevents mounting a third panel between them.

Why would I contact Winnebago about a bad installation? What are they going to do about it? The reality is that I bought the Navion and as it has DC fridge and so Winnebago put on the bare minimum in solar panels to keep it running. I wanted the factory to run the wires to the charge controller and to the battery bank as this is very difficult to do after the cabinets are in place (been there and done that).

The Winegard is an antenna array with an outer housing. Per the Winegard installation manual it is to be mounted at least 12 inches from the edge of the roof and it comes with a long enough cable to mount it anywhere on the roof of the Navion. Optimum location would be on the driver side so it is not blocked by the motorized awning and at least a foot back from the cabover section that is 6 inches higher than the roof of the Navion. Instead it was mounted by the person at Guaranty right against the cabover section and right against the awning. Somehow the concept of reading the installation guide has never occured to their installer. He also mounted the On/Off switch for the Navion behind the paper towel holder so one has to pull out the paper towels to turn the Winegard on or off. Dumb, dumb, and dumber.

A great many many Navion/View owners add more panels to the roof. Unfortunately I have to remove the driver side Zamp 100W panel and remount it and then mount the additional two panels. As the 200 Watt provided is only enough for the Norcold any additional battery drain can only be recovered by running the generator or adding more panels.

As for standard procedures I have not seen any evidence of that from Winnebago or their dealer. I worked for more than 30 years with Fortune 500 manufacturers in a wide range of industries and I know about business process and quality control and it starts at the top. I see evidence that Winnebago puts its attention and efforts into improving the interior functions and cosmetics but for anything that is out of sight there is far less attention paid.

I see this with the use of a Zamp kit for the solar and the dealers installing the Winegard and the open battery tray that takes in road grime and dirt and water. I will be removing the solar panel wiring and replacing it all and removing the Zamp roof cap and installng a combiner box on the roof in its place, and changing out the Zamp SAE connectors with the polarity reversed for MC4 connectors and replacing the Zamp PWM controller with a Victron MPPT charge controller. I will probably need to upgrade the charge controller to roof cap wires as well.

Winnebago went cheap with their use of the Zamp 200 Watt solar kit. So they used the kit wires that were too long and did not bother to shorten them and so there is even more current loss as well as the problem with the gauge of the wire. The Zamp wiring and connectors are not UV resistant and so have a relatively short life of less than 5 years. I am keeping the two Zamp 100 Watt panels but the rest of the Zamp kit that Winnebago installed is going to be replaced entirely.

Actually it is the improper placement of the driver side Zamp panel that requires its being moved to add a third panel. Is the use of a cheap Zamp roof cap instead of a commercial grade C-box that also makes it more difficult to add a third panel as Zamp uses reverse polarity wiring and SAE connectors and they are the only company doing this.

It is like Winnegabago not bothering to put a sewer hose storage tube on a $180.000 RV. I bought a Valterra sewer hose carrier and will be attaching it under the coach as has been done by so many other Winnebago owners. It does bother me that I need to order and install the sewer hose carrier which should be standard fitment for any RV. Even cheap trailers and slide-in campers have hose carriers installed by the factory. Why is a sewer hose compartment considered an extra?

I will say that in researching how best to fix the Zamp solar kit installation done by Winnebago the people at AM Solar in Oregon have been both very knowledgeable and very helpful throughout the entire process. They are also a very good source for RV solar components.

It is the failing of the RV industry to appreciate the importance of solar power production that keeps companies like AM Solar in business and why solar installers are booked out for 4 to 6 months. I dealt with this indifference with my RV in 2015 but am surprised that 5 years later the industry is still clueless about solar.

It is also worse with so many RV manufacturers having gone out of business in 2009 with the banksters' caused Great Recesion. The few that have come back have little real competiton and when Winnebago can experience a 39% increase in revenue as they did in the last quarter, there is little incentive to provide real innovation. It is much like the auto manufactures in the 1960's and 1970's before the Japanese auto makers entered the U.S. market.
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Old 12-11-2020, 02:41 PM   #7
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You bought brand new, correct? So, either you knew up front what you were getting, if you were shown and looked over the order build sheet, or maybe you simply threw down $180,000 on a sight unseen vehicle? Either way, "e caveat emptor" would apply. Anyone would/should have to do some serious homework, call it due diligence, before jumping in with both feet for that amount of money, or the outcome will most probably resemble what you're experiencing now. You have to ask about all the questions and concerns beforehand, and if the answers aren't satisfactory, then you have the option to move on.
While many of us can commiserate on the shortcomings of modern motorhome manufacturing standards, it's still up to you to decide whether to buy one, or not. If there are problems with your unit, and it's still under warranty, you should address your concerns with the point of sale dealer, and if not satisfied there, escalate to Winnebago corporate.
Finally, good luck with it. Might take some extra effort, but you'll eventually get it sorted out, and get out there to enjoy the open road.
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Old 12-11-2020, 03:14 PM   #8
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Elkman, all you say is true. Unfortunately, the RV industry is simply operating exactly as they have for the past 50 years. If we all railed against the stupid design, build and install issues with our RV it wouldn't change anything.

You can spend $80K, $180K, $580k or $1.800K and find complaints about many of the same kinds of workmanship issues.

So, like the rest of us, you either fix it the way you want it and use it or sell it and vacation via car or plane and stay in hotels.
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Old 12-11-2020, 04:29 PM   #9
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What can anybody say? "Welcome to the real world"?
Now if you are willing to cough up a few dollars and build an RV with twice the features and twice the quality at half the price, give me a call because I'll be interested!
I didn't like that I could not get my car fixed. So I sold it and got one that I like better!
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Old 12-11-2020, 06:39 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkman View Post

Why would I contact Winnebago about a bad installation? What are they going to do about it? The reality is that I bought the Navion and as it has DC fridge and so Winnebago put on the bare minimum in solar panels to keep it running. I wanted the factory to run the wires to the charge controller and to the battery bank as this is very difficult to do after the cabinets are in place (been there and done that).
I can't tell if you are bashing Winnebago, or if your beef is just with the RV Dealer?

You go on to allude to your view of bare minimum in solar panels on a new coach versus what you wanted the factory to do... so why did you buy it? Given that you did buy it why the beef about the way it was mfg?

Further, you have never stated what the RV Dealer perspective or response was to you with regard to why they installed it the way they did?

I had an almost identical experience as you have; but with a different feature. Somehow I came out loving Winnebago and respected the RV Dealers rationale for what they did paid to have it fixed the way I wanted and I am happy with both Winnebago & RV Dealer

Optional read:
The RV that we purchased was perfect quality wise and cost wise; it was a brand new Winnebago. It had everything we wanted; but no AGS

I could have paid $25k- $30k more and upgraded to Adventurer; but all I really wanted or needed was the AGS (EC-30) in my coach. So I bought brand new without the AGS and later paid a Winnebago Dealer to install my new Cummins EC-30 AGS the way it was installed and wired in the 2019 Adventurer (exact same layouts). They did and it worked but I later realized that the 12v shore power sensor was wired after the ATS That meant my AGS could not know when to turn itself on automatically if shore power was lost, or to turn itself off if shore power was on. Just like you it did not match what my Cummins manual said it could do. I confirmed with Cummins that while it could technically be installed either way; to do what I wanted it had to be rewired to sense shore power in front of ATS. My RV Dealer said that they don't normally connect anything in front of ATS, and if they had wired it that way; it would have been a lot more costly because they had to run wires all the way to the ATS in the opposite side of coach. Versus getting mad, I had to put my big boy pants on and respect what they had did and why. Nothing about this saga had anything to do with Winnebago not having something I wanted on a coach that I decided to buy. So I go to dealer and stated my case about why I really wanted wired in in front of ATS. I did not bash the technician, or why they chose to wire differently. I asked what it would take to rewire and it was about $300. I gladly paid them to make it the way I wanted. I was still $25- $30k+ ahead of buying the next level up RV. When they were done, I then went and wrote up the below Google Review for the RV Dealer. I gave them 5 stars because I respected them and their work. I am sure if I had clarified upfront exactly where I wanted wired; I am sure it would have cost more than what they charged me the first time.

I got contacted by the owner thanking me "Uh ohs" don't have to be negative stories is my point. I have owned my RV over 1 year now, and I think the world of Winnebago; and the 2 Winnebago RV Dealers that I have worked with McClains RV Rockwall & La Mesa RV Port St Lucie
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