New 2021 View 24D first impressions - Page 4

rprochnow · 03-27-2021, 04:49 PM

Our Sprint plan provides for unlimited data (in addition to 100GB/month LTE hotspot) for our 5G smartphone - with at least full HD video streaming, though T-Mobile may reduce speed if data is greater than 50GB in a month.

T-Mobile also recently announced their Magenta Max plan with unlimited data (possibly speed reduction after 100GB in a month), 4K video streaming, and 40GB/month hotspot.

With the addition of the Sprint network, T-Mobile is being very aggressive right now in attracting customers - and if the other carriers start seeing customers shift to T-Mobile to get the better coverage and higher volume data plans, they could introduce plans to match what T-Mobile is offering...

**creativepart** · 03-27-2021, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rprochnow

T-Mobile is being very aggressive right now in attracting customers

I got an email today from www.rvmobileinternet.com saying that they've heard the T-Mobile 100gb plan may be going away for new subscribers.

So, they recommend jumping on board ASAP for those that have not already signed up. The change reported is that the T-Mobile Pre-Paid Website shows that as a 50gb plan now - but the standard post-paid is still showing 100gb.

It's a maybe for now - but they usually set the two plans with the same terms.

rprochnow · 03-27-2021, 05:27 PM

The 100GB plan is for Sprint customers - we had that plan before the merger (it's actually increased my S21 Ultra 5G phone's hotspot to 120GB of 4G data per month, at no additional cost).

Not sure if new customers can select the Sprint plans - or if those are only for existing Sprint customers, until they phase out Sprint completely...

37NG · 04-10-2021, 02:19 PM

Back to the subject OP. Had ours a couple of weeks now, just driveway camped to get a feel and outfit ahead our first planned trip in a week. Observations so far, from good to bad:

Design A+

The sum of convenience, lighting, counter space, thoughtful little items like blue lighting, under cabinet, and in drawers, multiple tables, storage, etc put the WB ahead of other manufacturers by a good margin for us. The newer components are truly energy efficient and I can run comfortably off of 15A while in a driveway

WB Customer support A+

Had several interactions from them requesting either specific model info and part numbers, to tech help, to use of their online resources and everyone without exception was helpful, courteous, and quick to respond if they didn’t have the information handy. Refreshingly personal and enthusiastic

MB B-

The Sprinter chassis drives beautifully for how much it’s carrying. I added Sumos front and rear and it is improved roll stability and ride noticeably. The front end feels a little vague or sloppy with tire pressures at temp corrected 61. Not sure if this is just the nature of the beast or more a tire design/loading issue. Where it loses points, and I fault WB as well on this despite the fact it’s the upgraded MBUX spec, it is apparently built on a commercial use chassis that is missing a number of the active safety and convenience items found on lower spec passenger van chassis. Specifically no TPMS, not even the basic low pressure warning found on every passenger car sold. Also despite all the other active features from adaptive cruise to alert monitor to lane keeping there is no blind spot monitor. Also it appears the mirrors do not fold at all, not only not electric like in the owners manual, but no manual folding either, which is really a PITA given how far out they stick, and means damage if they are accidentally moved

Construction C-

Just a bunch of lack of attention to detail stuff I would never accept in my own or a contractors work - seams uneven, excess adhesive, crappy, really crappy faux wood veneers that are not very durable and would probably have been easier to use wood on. Hardly premium stuff. The white euro style cabinets are better and I’m really glad I didn’t opt for the mahogany throughout look that would have meant the cheap veneer every where. The veneered particle board per its nature will strip easily, and I’ve already had to epoxy backfill and re-screw half a dozen screws that were lose and could not be tightened

Dealer prep D

Although this is not WB, they (General RV) are a large dealer and represent the brand. The walkthrough was very rushed and they were obviously on a time line. This was one of the items they wanted to charge over $1K (I didn’t) for the “spend as long as you need” prepping and going over the RV with you. I got a chance to see the unit before it was prepped and they did nothing but wash it. They should have just said read the manuals and call the manufacturer and appliance companies if you have any questions. They never mentioned that each individual appliance component needs to be individually registered in order to get warranty protection (they do).

The sales and finance people were pleasant and efficient, they gave me the best price by close to $10K over anywhere else, but the experience was big box, and were it not for the fact I’m a big DIY anal retentive tech/gear head I could see this being a very frustrating experience. For me it’s just an annoyance but still disappointing for a product this expensive

Elkman · 04-10-2021, 04:49 PM

I read about the lack of a tire pressure measuring system by people who do not realize that this was mandated on passenger vehicles so as to reduce fuel consumption and not for safety reasons. People were told when radial ply tires first became common that the sidewall bulge was normal and not to worry. That led to a lot of underinflated tires on the road. Commercial drivers carry a tire gauge and check the pressure as they have a lot more invested in their tires and in fuel costs.

With 50 plus years of driving all types of vehicles and towing trailers I have never needed a tire valve to tell me that a tire needed more air. A tire gauge at $30 or less is all it takes. And so often if a vehicle sits out in the sun the tires on the sunny side will have air pressures that are 10-20 percent higher than the ones out of the sun. Not much point in seeing the exact pressures at all the tires in such circumstances.

Our Navion 24D drives like a truck and that is to be expected. Even a Class B van RV will drive like a truck with its higher center of gravity. On our RV the mirrors do fold in manually and are as close as possible to the sides of the vehicle when folded. Electric extending mirrors are one more thing to break and they are very expensive to replace.

Our 2021 Navion has the Mercedes active safety as found in the commercial van. Actually I dislike these features as for example in windy conditions the computer thinks that the driver is falling asleep and a there is a warning and alert and no way to turn if off. The setting is of no use with a motorhome with so much side area to be buffeted by the wind.

There is adaptive cruise control with our 2021 (MBZ chassis cab is actually the 2020 version) and it is not difficult to use.

Dealer prep is not going to be reliable with any vehicle and there is more to prep with an RV than with a passenger car. I would advise anyone buying a new RV to spend 3 days at the dealers to verify all the work was done properly and to spend time learning how to operate everything.

My primary complaint is that with the DC only fridge and freezer unit these vehicles should come standard with the lithium phosphaste batteries and with twice as much solar panel output. Winnebago fixed the latter issue with their new EKKO that comes from the factory with 455W of solar instead of 200W as with their Navion models.

I will say that if I replace the Navion with a different Class C model it will be one built on the Ford 450 chassis cab that provides double the OCCC of the Navion. This is one of those dirty little secrets in the RV industry where the load is so greatly limited with Class C motorhomes. They may sleep 4 people but the OCCC precludes actually having 4 people and their gear in the RV unless there is little or no water in the freshwater tank.

rprochnow · 04-10-2021, 09:25 PM

37NG rated MB as B-, partly because of the missing MBUX features present in passenger vehicles.

Winnebago should take the blame for all or most of this - they decided which features they would and wouldn't support in their Sprinter-based RVs. Other manufacturers made their own decisions - such as whether or not to include side cameras.

The side mirrors do fold manually - though they can put up a lot of resistance when trying to fold. I've folded them whenever we are parked where I'm concerned the mirrors could be hit.

TPMS is useful not only to verify tire pressure before starting a trip - but also to monitor pressure while driving - detecting a tire overheating (which cause too much pressure) or a tire starting to deflate. A TPMS should detect potential issues early enough to provide time to slow down and avoid have a tire fail at highway speeds.

We had a better experience with the "dealer prep" we received from Lichtsinn. We watched their online video walkthrough of a 24D before we picked up our View (multiple times), plus we reviewed all of the View and Sprinter documentation that was available online from Winnebago and MB. We didn't feel rushed during walkthrough - and when that was done, we did a walkthrough of their supply store, which helped identify a few items that we missed when we ordered supplies online to bring with us for the purchase. We stayed two nights at Lichtsinn before leaving, and only found minor items they had missed during their preparation of our View. Of course, we'll never know what they found during their prep - and that they fixed before our purchase.

For a vehicle that is listed now for over $170K, some of the construction quality is a little disappointing. Admittedly, there are challenges in putting so much into such a tight space - with severe weight limitations (what the Sprinter can carry). Though, compared to the other Class C's we reviewed before purchasing our 24D - it appears this is an RV industry issue - not just Winnebago.

37NG · 04-11-2021, 03:43 AM

Sounds like Lichtsinn sets the standard for dealer prep and delivery. I’ve watched a few of their videos as well. Based on friends experiences we went local so as to be able to get support if needed from where we bought it. In fairness there are no serious flaws and everything works. Had a couple operational questions that were answered by either WB or the appliance manufacturer.

I get the OCC limitations which is one of the reasons we did not consider a Tiffen MB class C. Reference materials that does not rationalize the use of so much particle board/veneer for facing which is usually heavier than real wood. Purely a cost/ease of production issue.

I’m mixed on TPMS - would have been nice to have on board but don’t mind checking tire pressure regularly. I’m leery of the aftermarket systems that rely on the sensor caps rather than the valve stem to keep the pressure in - the design strikes me as a far more likely source of failure than the tire it’s monitoring. Also I question the accuracy of temperature readings not taken from inside the tire. I know these are popular here but there is a lot of confirmation bias as well

Overall we are pretty pleased and will see how things hold up. My bias is I’m used to marine grade and I need to recalibrate to this sectors norms

Elkman · 04-26-2021, 02:59 PM

The Ford E-series 450 chassis cabs provide for 14,500 GVWR versus 11.000 with the Sprinter 3500 chassis cabs and that makes a great deal of difference in passengers, gear, water and septic, and towng capacity. The Fords use gas engines but the Class C motorhomes also have 50-55 gallon fuel tanks.

With the additional 3500 lbs of load capacity the Ford Class C have a much less restrictive OCCC than the one built on the Spinter chass as with our Navion that is rated at 886 lbs and that must include the driver and any passengers so it is easy to max that out before adding any personal items like food or water. If we put a bike rack and two e-bikes on the receiver we need to subtract 200 lbs from the OCCC and the same would apply if we towed anything.

The Navion is designed for people that spend 95% of their time at a campground with hookups and a dump station. For dry camping they are not a good choice.

37NG · 04-27-2021, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elkman

The Ford E-series 450 chassis cabs provide for 14,500 GVWR versus 11.000 with the Sprinter 3500 chassis cabs and that makes a great deal of difference in passengers, gear, water and septic, and towng capacity. The Fords use gas engines but the Class C motorhomes also have 50-55 gallon fuel tanks.

With the additional 3500 lbs of load capacity the Ford Class C have a much less restrictive OCCC than the one built on the Spinter chass as with our Navion that is rated at 886 lbs and that must include the driver and any passengers so it is easy to max that out before adding any personal items like food or water. If we put a bike rack and two e-bikes on the receiver we need to subtract 200 lbs from the OCCC and the same would apply if we towed anything.

The Navion is designed for people that spend 95% of their time at a campground with hookups and a dump station. For dry camping they are not a good choice.

The Ford 450 Chassis definitely has its place. If I had wanted a larger class C that would have been the choice. I don’t. Everything is a trade off. I like the footprint of the View/Navion and am fine with the limitations for now. A 450 based 28-32 footer is different animal in terms of ease of use

rprochnow · 04-27-2021, 09:25 AM

We've been able to do dry camping in our View, as long as we are careful in not wasting fresh water.

Over the past 10 days, most of that time we've spent parked with shore power only - and no water - and that hasn't been a problem. And could have run without shore power, if we can get an hour or two of charging of our lithium batteries from the generator (or engine).

At least based on our experience, we're comfortable using our View for dry camping - as long as we can find water every 2-3 days and a dump station every 4-5 days - with 2 people. And if we can run the generator for an hour or two each day, with a full tank of diesel - we'll be able to keep the lithium batteries charged.

67Tiger · 04-27-2021, 09:27 AM

I have no issues with OCC with my View, more than anything else I have to make sure I don't travel with full fresh water, gray, and or black tank. The few times I've had to travel with a full fresh water tank it didn't really seem to be a problem, but it is the one thing we do address on long trips when some boondocking may come into play. Of course I love 15 miles per gallon, build quality, and I could never live with the Fords huge engine bulge inside the cab. The downside is the price difference, but if you shop around for used like I did you can easily find a great deal.

Famof3 · 05-08-2021, 10:38 AM

Some things we have experienced in our new 2021 24d Winnebago View

-our truma water heater apparently worked on our orientation day at the dealer in Sacramento.....first trip out in Napa and no hot water. (Despite input from SEVERAL well meaning rvers.) After troubleshooting with our dealer’s service department with no success, I finally called Truma directly (most helpful than anyone else) we determined it was a problem with the gas line. Then the nightmare of trying to get it repaired...LONG story but in the end it was just the slightest bend in the hose that caused it....hope this helps?

-after that fateful cold water trip to Napa, we simply took “Jolene” out for a ride to the foothills and suddenly the stabilizer jack warning red beeping loud lights kept coming on and off. Not pleasant. Again, troubleshooting with our service team in Sacramento and so on and so on. The next time we turn on Jolene to return to Sacramento for this problem, the rear driver side jack won’t go up. Again a good 2-3 hours of fun phone calls troubleshooting. We finally get a mobile tech out and even he can’t get it to move....something about a faulty valve. I will save you from the pain we dealt with trying to get service for this problem...took about 2 months....in the end our service department ended up replacing both rear jacks. Btw they could not explain why the original one was faulty.

-We just went on our second trip last weekend.....we ordered Jolene in September of last year, got her in Jan this year, took one trip then it took forever to get our truma working and then the jack issue. Happy to report no issues during this trip!

I am not going to lie, this is our first RV, we do love it, but dealing with the dealer, the service department and Winnebago was extremely frustrating to the point where we also said to heck with it and sold it back to the dealer. I did take the time to write emails to the CEO of Winnebago because I was just that frustrated. We never did get a response.

But we are not ones to give up (that and my husband has wanted an RV forever and I finally agreed) so here we are prepping for our next trip to Santa Cruz!!!

rprochnow · 05-08-2021, 11:45 AM

Have you reached out to Winnebago's customer service team? They responded fairly quickly (within 24 hours) when we had water leak issues (which caused our Auto Transfer Switch to fail so we couldn't connect to shore power).

We had a stressful period when we found the water leak at the beginning of two week trip from Houston to LA. It took Kerrville RV two days to get the water leaks fixed, but then the Auto Transfer Switch died (due to water damage) two days later. Turned out very difficult to find anyone in Phoenix to replace the ATS. And for the rest of the trip, we were concerned we would spring a new water leak (checking every day for any water leaking underneath).

But we got through it - and the trips since haven't been as stressful...

While it felt (at the time) that our water/power problems were serious, and raised concerns our RV purchase - they are issues that could and have been fixed - and overall, we're extremely satisfied with our purchase, after our first 20K miles and 11 months of ownership.

Elkman · 05-08-2021, 01:16 PM

Normally I would never buy a new RV or a new boat other than an inflatable or a kayak as with a used one the prior owner has had to do all the outfitting and fix all the problems. The warranty for the RV is only 1-year and all the appliances are covered by their manufacturers.

In July of last year I started looking for a used Class C RV and by September had found nothing for us and then decided to buy a new Navion 24D and even then in a month of searching found only 2 for sale at Winnebago dealers within 1500 miles of the house.

But used 2-3 year old class C motorhomes are starting to be advertised again and many have solar already installed which is a very big plus. If I was looking today it would be for a RV built on the Ford E-450 chassis cab to get double the OCCC and a 50% higher tow rating and a much larger fuel tank.

VannaView · 05-18-2021, 09:21 AM

After a very short ownership of a 13G, we upgraded to a 20D primarily because of the floor layout (loved the D) and also because of the MB chassis improvements. After 1 year of ownership, we have the following observations:
D Layout - love it! Very roomy. The Murphy bed arrangement is awesome. Love the Truma instant hot water. Glad we made the switch.
MB Chassis - better ride, better electronics and better safety than older chassis. We upgraded to Agile tuned Fox 2.5 rear shocks and Hellwig sway bar. Big improvement over stock, but not as much of an improvement over previous chassis suspension. I do miss not having a glovebox however.
Build Quality Issues - Several. Most significant was external water leaks. After 4 return trips to the dealership (totalling 4 months in the shop) the 12 places (!) it was leaking we’re finally sealed. WBO put out a service bulletin, but that was not sufficient. Thank you warranty - which was extended because of the duration it was unable to be used
Next is stainless rusting - yes, it rusts. Several Facebook posts about this. For us it was galley sink and cooktop. Others have also included bathroom sink. Again, WBO will do warranty replacement
Carefree awning - the way it was installed enabled bolts to pull out enabling water leak (yes, a different one). Also it requires adjustments to the in/out stoppers or it will go out and not come in (manual retraction required)
Lastly, as mentioned elsewhere in this thread, some finishing issues on countertops, doorways, entry door, etc.
Design Issues
While the D is a better layout, some ways it is designed could be improved such as:
- put the sliding bathroom door behind the shower wall (rather than the pantry wall) to gain an extra 2-3” of closet width
- reverse the way the medicine cabinet door opens (open to the left rather than to the right, into the bathroom- easy enough to do yourself)
- opening reversal for the closet door, except the other way (make it opening to the right) to make it easier/raster to access the closet (again, easy to do)
- TV was a bad choice and was fried after only a few uses. As mentioned in other posts, we upgraded to a Samsung 4K QLED. Great decision, but it cost us more than what WBO would allow under warranty.
- small back-support cushions on the dinette fall off when made down into a bed. Many people have used straps, etc. to secure them in place. Under warranty, WBO will provide a separate single large cushion to be used in their place - but it’s an extra thing to carry.
- several others, though less annoying

Finally, we upgraded the solar (3x190W panels) and battery (drop-in 315ah lithium)

So, overall, we really like it, but the build issues (i.e. water leaks) had us reconsidering our purchase, and the design issues should have been caught in the design review stages - not thorough enough. We’re definitely keeping it!

Elkman · 05-18-2021, 10:16 AM

From the mentioned problems with water leaks and the poor job of installing the Carefree awning (which mirror my problems with fixing the solar panel installation done at the factory and the Winegard installation done by the dealer in Oregon), it makes for a good argument for buying a 1-2 year old RV where the first owner had to deal with the problems.

The 315 Ah lithionics battery is an interesting choice. It provides 315 Ah as compared to the 250 Ah from two smaller Lithionics batteries but my two batteries cost me $2900 as compared to $4500 for the 315 Ah battery. The 315 Ah seems to be grossly overpriced by Lithionics and their 125 Ah battery is already 50% more expensive than most on the market from Battleborn and others.

37NG · 05-18-2021, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rprochnow

Have you reached out to Winnebago's customer service team? They responded fairly quickly (within 24 hours) when we had water leak issues (which caused our Auto Transfer Switch to fail so we couldn't connect to shore power).

We had a stressful period when we found the water leak at the beginning of two week trip from Houston to LA. It took Kerrville RV two days to get the water leaks fixed, but then the Auto Transfer Switch died (due to water damage) two days later. Turned out very difficult to find anyone in Phoenix to replace the ATS. And for the rest of the trip, we were concerned we would spring a new water leak (checking every day for any water leaking underneath).

But we got through it - and the trips since haven't been as stressful...

While it felt (at the time) that our water/power problems were serious, and raised concerns our RV purchase - they are issues that could and have been fixed - and overall, we're extremely satisfied with our purchase, after our first 20K miles and 11 months of ownership.

I must be lucky - absolutely no issues I’ve had to get fixed by WB or dealer yet. Maybe it’s leaking and I don’t know it? Been on the road for 20 days in the last month. I did have a slow leak of left the front tire that turned out to be a loose valve stem which I had fixed at a local tire shop. They didn’t think they had a lift that would work on is sprinter - no problem just used the Equalizer system to lift the front wheel (yes chocked and safety jack). Only annoyance has been the hot water in the bathroom sink causes the water pump to cycle instead of stay on.

Elkman · 05-27-2021, 11:54 AM

I appreciate that a Class C motorhome using the Ford E-450 chassis is going to be 24 inches longer than our Navion but I also know from past experience that once the length of the RV exceeds 22 feet the available campsites diminishes greatly and those over 24 feet as with the 25.5 foot Navion will required an oversized campsite if staying at national or state campgrounds. If dry camping then the length is not the issue but the capacity of the holding tanks and the fuel tank and the type of fridge and cooktop installed.

100% of RV-accessible national park campgrounds can accommodate an RV up to 12 feet in length.
98% of RV-accessible national park campgrounds can accommodate an RV up to 19 feet in length.
93% of RV-accessible national park campgrounds can accommodate an RV up to 25 feet in length.
84% of RV-accessible national park campgrounds can accommodate an RV up to 29 feet in length.
81% of RV-accessible national park campgrounds can accommodate an RV up to 32 feet in length.
73% of RV-accessible national park campgrounds can accommodate an RV up to 35 feet in length.
60% of RV-accessible national park campgrounds can accommodate an RV up to 37 feet in length.
53% of RV-accessible national park campgrounds can accommodate an RV up to 40 feet in length.
7% of RV-accessible national park campgrounds can accommodate an RV up to 41 feet in length.

Although a campground may have some spaces that will accommodate a 26 foot RV it can often be only a percentage of the available campsites and when it is first come first gets the larger campsites may already be occupied by someone who is tent camping with their SUV in the space.

Phil G. · 05-28-2021, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 37NG

The Ford 450 Chassis definitely has its place. If I had wanted a larger class C that would have been the choice. I don’t. Everything is a trade off. I like the footprint of the View/Navion and am fine with the limitations for now. A 450 based 28-32 footer is different animal in terms of ease of use

Actually the Winnebago 22M Class C, at 24'5" long and a wheelbase of 158 inches, is available built on the optional E450 chassis for great weight carrying capacity, turning radius, and chassis systems over-kill versus overall weight.

The Navion is 25'6" long with a 170 inch wheelbase, so it has a longer footprint to go along with it's marginal weight carrying capacity ... plus it's likely that it's mile after mile weight being close to it's maximum will of course be stressing certain of it's chassis systems more over time.

We have a 24' Winnnebago Itasca Class C built on an E450 chassis and we can load it up anyway we want with no concerns - it's probably considerably under-loaded at all times. We leave home and travel as much as possible with all tanks full that should be full and all tanks empty that should be empty so that we can be ready for any kind of camping at any time. I can't tell any difference in it's handling regardless of how we are loaded. After around 81k miles, it's original front brake pads had 30% left.

We can camp just about in any campsite with our small Class C, and can take it off-road due to it's moderate 158" wheelbase combined with it's pickup truck like ground clearance.

We kindof bought our little Class C like I try to buy tools: For optimum long term service buy a heavy duty tool that you intend on using in a light duty way with respect to what it is capable of.

Coffie Drink · 05-30-2021, 10:29 AM

The Sprinter is a good Chassis, diesel gives 14 mpg, lots of power, the Ford Chassis is very tight the right side foot area is very tight, the driver side is tight as well. The engine box is hot, nosies. Service if needed is hard to find a Ford dealer who works on them. Mercedes dealers will fix my View G.
Load is much less in my View but workable. The new Views are very expensive, there is nothing wrong with both, each has advantages. For a family a For is better. For a couple the View is better.