Electrical problem

[Airboss68]

I have a 2021 Navion View D with a Greystone Oven and an induction stovetop burner.

Being used to a 50 amp RV where I could run everything at once I am a bit new to 30 amp

When cooking on the induction burner if I turn on the microwave or use it as a convection oven the induction burner turns off.

The induction burner turns back on about 30 seconds after I turn the microwave off.

If I am running the microwave 1st and try to turn on the induction burner it will not turn on. 30 seconds after shutting down the microwave the induction unit comes back online.

Is this an electrical problem or a protective mechanism to not overload the 30 amp service?

[bigb]

Originally Posted by Airboss68

Is this an electrical problem or a protective mechanism to not overload the 30 amp service?

It's a protective automatic load selection switch to prevent the circuit from overloading and tripping the breaker ( and from overloading the 30 amp pedestal breaker as well). I have one for the microwave and the electric water heater element which share the same circuit. On mine and yours both the microwave has priority.
Before I found out about this we used to always shut the WH off before using the microwave and AC at the same time, not realizing that it was already being done for us automatically.

[Airboss68]

Thanks
Saves me a lot of troubleshooting for a problem that doesn't exist.

Now I know why there is also a gas burner.

[Morich]

There are two different issues of your RVbut this section seems to show thw same on both.

Info from this drawing:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File..._524d_wire.htm

110 drawingfor the 1MP or 02P depending on your model.

Click this to get a better view of the wiring idea. Power in on the green and then one of the blue gets power going out of the sharing module.
Looks like the microis given priority.

[Phil G.]

Originally Posted by Airboss68

I have a 2021 Navion View D with a Greystone Oven and an induction stovetop burner.

Being used to a 50 amp RV where I could run everything at once I am a bit new to 30 amp

When cooking on the induction burner if I turn on the microwave or use it as a convection oven the induction burner turns off.

The induction burner turns back on about 30 seconds after I turn the microwave off.

If I am running the microwave 1st and try to turn on the induction burner it will not turn on. 30 seconds after shutting down the microwave the induction unit comes back online.

Is this an electrical problem or a protective mechanism to not overload the 30 amp service?

That limitation - due to your motorhome's load sharing device - sounds a bit restrictive: In our 30 amp Class C we can at the same time run both the microwave on it's highest setting and the air conditioner with it's interior fan speed set on high.

[Morich]

But it is not the AC and microwave which is restricted but the micro and cooktop!
Most RV do not have the induction cooktop, so will have a different result.

[rprochnow]

We have a Journey 34N on order. It has a 3000W inverter, 8000W generator and 50A shore power. It's all electric - no propane with a convection microwave and a 2 burner induction cooktop.

With all of the extra power, surprisingly, you cannot run the induction cooktop off batteries. You can only run the induction cooktop off the generator or shore power.

If we end up boondocking, unless we run the generator, we won't be able to use the cooktop - something we can do now with our 2021 View 24D...

The energy management system in the View is a clever solution - and even though you can't run both the microwave and convection cooktop at the same time - at least you can the microwave or the cooktop off batteries or 30A shore power - something many other RVs can't do...

[Morich]

I don't find this too surprising if we look at what it takes to do the indution cooktop. I've not looked at the specs but generally electric heat is a real power hog. Consider how much power it takes to run a hair drier and then think of cooking?

The power is there when we are plugged into almost unlimited current. But if we are using only an inverter to make that AC power from DC batteries, we would need a truck sized battery to last long enough to cook a pot of stew!

Induction cooking is new and "fancy" but not very practical for RV that want to boondock!

An article pointing to somethings to know:

https://thecampingnerd.com/how-much-...n-cooktop-use/

[Phil G.]

Originally Posted by Morich

But it is not the AC and microwave which is restricted but the micro and cooktop!
Most RV do not have the induction cooktop, so will have a different result.

Right you are ... however, I posted what I posted re our 30 amp Class C because I wanted definite responses to help the OP with their convection oven + induction cooktop 30 amp simultaneous start-up problem.

In other words ... does a convection oven + induction cooktop together at start-up take more current than an air conditioner + microwave take at simultaneous start-up?

When both a microwave and air conditioner start together, their instantaneous current spikes are large.

What I'm wondering is ... is the OP's load sharing device a bit too restrictive with respect to it's design specs ... in that maybe it needs to be replaced.

[Airboss68]

As best as I can surmise the protective circuit is there for boondocking and running off batteries/solar. As the refrigerator runs off 12 volts only you don't want your stove/oven sucking down the batteries too rapidly.

Don't know if the A/C will run off the inverter but I am sure 2 house batteries won't keep it going very long so i wouldn't run it under any circumstances on just battery/solar. Thats what the generator is for.

i think though that the energy management system should have been designed to detect generator or shore power and allow all devices to operate.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by Airboss68

As best as I can surmise the protective circuit is there for boondocking and running off batteries/solar. As the refrigerator runs off 12 volts only you don't want your stove/oven sucking down the batteries too rapidly.

Don't know if the A/C will run off the inverter but I am sure 2 house batteries won't keep it going very long so i wouldn't run it under any circumstances on just battery/solar. Thats what the generator is for.

i think though that the energy management system should have been designed to detect generator or shore power and allow all devices to operate.

This "power share module is a bit of new tech that is interesting. Do you have a manual/info for that part of your RV in the big folder of info we hope you got with the RV?
I would be interested in reading some if you have a brand and model, etc for what you have. A search turns up very little that seems to apply for our use.

[bigb]

It's not a smart load management device, it only knows when a load gets energized and it will only allow one load or the other to be energized at a time on that circuit giving priority to one of them. The microwave has priority because you normally only use it briefly and the interruption of the induction cooktop would be barely noticed (unless you have to reset the control) just like on mine interrupting the water heater while using the microwave would go un-noticed. This way the user is not in danger of tripping the 30 amp main while using the AC/Heat pump and cooking dinner at the same time, hookups or generator there is only 30 amps available. If they didn't install such a device can you imagine the general public tripping breakers and not understanding why, or worse yet be camped and not know anything about re-setting breakers (happens all the time, many folks are clueless about breakers)? It would give Winnebago a bad name. This way folks can cook dinner and enjoy AC or heat without ending up in the dark and cursing Winnebago. Pardon the expression but it is "idiot proofing"
Also, the tiny 30 amp breaker boxes usually don't even have space for an additional breaker, mine is all twinned up and couldn't have a separate breaker for the microwave if I wanted to, and if I did it would allow me to overload the 30 amp main, so I like the fact that the device is watching my back.
The device is located behind my breaker panel and you can hear it click when energized if it is quiet in the RV.

[bigb]

Originally Posted by Phil G.

In other words ... does a convection oven + induction cooktop together at start-up take more current than an air conditioner + microwave take at simultaneous start-up?

When your AC and microwave start simultaneously it is not a problem because they each have their own circuit. The OP has a cooktop and a microwave sharing a single branch circuit, each appliance is in the 1,000 to 1,500 watt range, so there is no way they can both run at the same time without overloading the branch circuit they share.
There is also no way they can both run along with the AC or heat pump without overloading the 30 amp main, so the load sharing device is serving a second purpose here in only allowing 2 heavy users at a time, never 3.

[Morich]

I've never added the total of things in the RV as it has let me know on several occasions that we can't run several of the high current items at the same time on 30 amp RV. We have tripped the 30 several times when we had had new Rv users in with us as they tend to not know the limits!
Things like somebody drying hair while breakfast is getting ready and then toast gets popped in and the breaker trips!

The folks we often camped with and had breakfast with often were used to just waiting until something was not needed and THEN going for the toast!
When we take the grandkids, the breaker gets tripped much more often!
Just part of "roughing it"!!!

[bigb]

Originally Posted by Morich

I've never added the total of things in the RV as it has let me know on several occasions that we can't run several of the high current items at the same time on 30 amp RV. We have tripped the 30 several times when we had had new Rv users in with us as they tend to not know the limits!
Things like somebody drying hair while breakfast is getting ready and then toast gets popped in and the breaker trips!

The folks we often camped with and had breakfast with often were used to just waiting until something was not needed and THEN going for the toast!
When we take the grandkids, the breaker gets tripped much more often!
Just part of "roughing it"!!!

Not much you can do with plug and cord connected loads but fixed in place loads have rules pertaining to circuit loading, a fixed in place load that uses more than 50% of the circuit rating may not share with any other loads.

[Airboss68]

Do you have a manual/info for that part

Unfortunately no.

Typical RV Manual sketchy at best plus all the individual appliance manuals. Nothing on systems.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Intellitec 00-00714-000
Automatic Energy Selector Switch (AESS)
Datasheet here
Service Manual here

I installed one of these in my 30A coach. Microwave and water heater used to be on individual 20A 120V breakers. I wanted a dedicated breaker for the Splendide washer/dryer. I "took" the water heater breaker for the washer/dryer, then installed the AESS to mediate between the microwave and water heater. Worked like a champ.

P.S.- Don't forget to pass the primary load wire through the current sensor. The first time I wired the AESS, I forgot, and it didn't work correctly.

[Morich]

Originally Posted by Airboss68

Unfortunately no.

Typical RV Manual sketchy at best plus all the individual appliance manuals. Nothing on systems.

Good enough. We are often not getting as much info as we used to on things but I was hoping maybe they had given you some idea of a manual!

My wife has spent the evening trying to fight through swapping out her old one but has just given up and agreed to call "somebody" tomorrow as there are too many codes and things they referr to as if everybody knows what they mean!

Other thanwhat we've already mentioned there is not much more I can add except I do spot it on the parts catalog as being behind the load center.

Is it any help to know where to stand closer to it when you want to give it your thoughts?

[rprochnow]

A 2000W inverter wouldn't be able to handle both the microwave and induction cooktop running at the same time - plus any other 110V loads that might be present.

When operating off shore power in a View, there's more power - but it's still only 30A - and then if the A/C is running, there still might not be enough power to operate the microwave and induction cooktop both on high - with the A/C and refrigerator running.

The microwave/induction cooktop sharing circuit is very simplistic energy management system that solves the problem given the limited power available in the View.

A more sophisticated energy management system could be smarter - and only start limiting devices when the power usage gets too high. But that would cost more $$$ than the simple solution that's in the View now.

As the RV industry shifts to more all-electric (no propane) models, the manufacturers will need to use better energy management systems, add more battery power and likely increase the size of the inverters. But by eliminating the propane tank, there will be extra space for all of that.

[bigb]

Originally Posted by rprochnow

A 2000W inverter wouldn't be able to handle both the microwave and induction cooktop running at the same time - plus any other 110V loads that might be present.

When operating off shore power in a View, there's more power - but it's still only 30A - and then if the A/C is running, there still might not be enough power to operate the microwave and induction cooktop both on high - with the A/C and refrigerator running.

The microwave/induction cooktop sharing circuit is very simplistic energy management system that solves the problem given the limited power available in the View.

A more sophisticated energy management system could be smarter - and only start limiting devices when the power usage gets too high. But that would cost more $$$ than the simple solution that's in the View now.

What you state is a by product of the automatic load selection switch, it's primary reason is to allow both appliances to share a single branch circuit. It just happens that this also limits the use of 3 large power consumers to only 2 at any given time but that is not the reason it was installed. Since the 30 amp RV is limited to 5 branch circuits it was the only option besides a manual select switch, and yes we will be seeing more of them as 30 amp RVs gain more electric appliances. Mine is actually 11 years old so they've been around for a while.

There is no requirement to provide protection against overloading the main and tripping the breaker, but there is a requirement to provide protection from overloading a branch circuit with fastened in place equipment.