Diesel v. Propane Generator??? (View/Navion 24v)

[al1florida]

Originally Posted by rprochnow

Lichtsinn installed the Lithionics batteries after purchase, using the same parts Winnebago uses at the factory.

Though they did miss putting the AMP-L-START (which they also installed) into "lithium" mode, so it's possible that is preventing sending power to the coach when the engine is running.

My reading of the AMP-L-START website is that it only allows current from the house batteries to the chassis battery.

If they put the AMP-L-START in place of the alternator to house battery circuit then that would be the problem. Or maybe they disconnected a wire used to pick the solenoid that connects the alternator to the house batteries.

[crah]

Originally Posted by rprochnow

Lichtsinn installed the Lithionics batteries after purchase, using the same parts Winnebago uses at the factory.

Though they did miss putting the AMP-L-START (which they also installed) into "lithium" mode, so it's possible that is preventing sending power to the coach when the engine is running.

If I recall from your wiring diagram, it looked nothing like the Winnebago factory lithium install like in my tray. Your picture also did not show the xantrex combiner selenoid that comes with the factory lithium option. That combiner sits in the battery tray of mine.

[rprochnow]

What I was told - they installed using the same parts as Winnebago factory.

On the list to check out in April...

[wyocamper]

We looked at several Winnebago and other Sprinter chassis RV's back in 2017 and none of them had a diesel generator. We do a lot of dry camping and having the generator run off the same small propane tank as the furnace, water heater and fridge seemed like a really bad idea, and a non-starter for us. If they offer a diesel gen as an option that would be the only way to go, unless all your stays are in a FH campground. It's nice with our Vista having the gen run off the gas tank and save the propane for those really cold mornings, and hot showers.

[sajohnson]

Originally Posted by wyocamper

We looked at several Winnebago and other Sprinter chassis RV's back in 2017 and none of them had a diesel generator. We do a lot of dry camping and having the generator run off the same small propane tank as the furnace, water heater and fridge seemed like a really bad idea, and a non-starter for us. If they offer a diesel gen as an option that would be the only way to go, unless all your stays are in a FH campground. It's nice with our Vista having the gen run off the gas tank and save the propane for those really cold mornings, and hot showers.

The diesel generator has never been a very popular option -- mostly because of its additional cost. Some people might think the LP and diesel gensets should cost about the same, because without looking at construction details, it might seem they are essentially the same unit, just using different fuels. It's been a while since I've checked, but the difference in cost was about $3,000.

When we were looking for a used View in 2012, finding one with a diesel generator was extremely difficult. I would go through ads looking for rigs with the genset exhaust pipe exiting on the passenger side (vs the rear) as a quick way to search. It took months to find one.

I just found this in the Lichtsinn blog:

"Outside the 2021 Winnebago View and Navion you’ll find dual 100-watt solar panels (200-watt in total) to replenish the dual group 31 RV batteries. The Solar Power in the View and Navion is also expandable! Available Lithiuim Ion Smart Batteries and 3200-watt Cummins Onan Diesel Generator increase your power options."

https://www.lichtsinn.com/blog/the-n...ew-and-navion/

So I guess the QD 3200 is still available, but finding a rig on a dealer's lot with one is unlikely.

[rprochnow]

When we purchased our 2021 View 24D last summer from Lichtsinn, they indicated they usually sold Views with the LP generator.

Since we planned and installed a solar/Tesla PowerWall system at our house in 2019, we were more familiar with planning for operating without power - and having the diesel generator, along with more solar panels (480W total) and the two 125Ah Lithionics batteries was a requirement for our View - and fortunately they had one on the lot at that time with everything except for the lithium batteries, which they would install once Winnebago had all of the parts in stock.

Especially when Galveston lost power for 3.5 days - with almost 48 hours of freezing temperatures, and there wasn't anywhere to get propane, was glad that we had our diesel generator plus the increased solar & battery.

The QD 3200 is an option on View/Navion - and if you ever expect to have planned or unplanned use of the generator, diesel (while more expensive) may be handy to have...

[Livinglife]

Originally Posted by Old Crows

LP or Diesel? LP is 3.6KW. Diesel is 3.2 KW. While both will power your AC and some other items, the advantage goes to LP. LP unit is less expensive. LP is slightly less weight (slight advantage). The diesel has a slight economy advantage in fuel consumption.

Downside to diesel is that it stinks. And, you have to check carefully where the exhaust pipe exits. Most have the spout exiting on the side similar to the Sprinter's exhaust which will be on the 'party' side and under the awning. LPs almost always exhaust near the rear 'bumper'... behind the RV. That is better in that you can easily add a GEN-TURI to put the exhaust exit above the roof of the RV.


Both generators are exactly the same as to measured noise levels using the Forest Service testing procedure. Exactly the same. The difference is the diesel has a lower tone and a bit more vibration. That means low frequency vibration which travels further and is transmitted to the interior of the RV. The LP has some vibration but is less objectionable IMHO.

Diesel uses only the top 2/3s of the fuel tank. Sprinters have a 26 Gal (100 L) tank. The diesel may run down to about 8 gallons remaining which is about 3 gallons above the "reserve fuel warning" on the Sprinter's fuel tank. Your reserve is approximately 5.2 gallons of which (my estimate) 4 gallons are useable to prevent damage to the fuel injection system. Your run time will depend on how much fuel you arrive with at your camp site. LP gives you a 'separate' source of energy to power the generator, WH, fridge (if you do not have the compressor fridge) & range.

There are those who bitch about not being able to find LP. Never had that problem. Like everything else in life.... plan ahead.

Diesel units are higher Maintainence due to the nature of the fuel. It's 'dirty' and you need to pay a lot attention to the Maintainence schedules. LP, on the other hand, is clean burning and other than periodic oil changes (150-200 hrs IRRC) you only need to replace a spark plug once in a blue moon. A DIY job.


The last point is: how do you intend to use the generator? If you will use it intermittently to power the AC for a period of time or when under way. Charge coach batteries. Make a cup of coffee.... boost the hot water heater or some other convenience, LP is the solution. If you plan on running the genny for hours and days at a time, perhaps diesel is your answer. (Really not a good thing to do in camp grounds....)


I hope this helps...

wow you are very thorough and knowledgeable . We just purchased 24V Navion, and it came with Propane generator. Relatives are inviting us to boon dock during summer and I am a little hesitant on how long we could get by dry camping. We won't need heat. But we will need to keep the frig going.

[Phil G.]

Originally Posted by Livinglife

wow you are very thorough and knowledgeable . We just purchased 24V Navion, and it came with Propane generator. Relatives are inviting us to boon dock during summer and I am a little hesitant on how long we could get by dry camping. We won't need heat. But we will need to keep the frig going.

You might want to consider having an adapter added to your motorhome's propane tank so that you can easily hook a regular 5 gal. propane tank into your RV's system for extra capacity.

The adapter and a short piece of hose for it are not expensive and they often come in kits, together. I recommend having a technician install the adapter - unless you know your way around propane plumbing. Just carry along enough 5 gal. "BBQ type" propane tanks to get you through while drycamping with your generator. The 5 gal. propane tank just sits on the ground next to where your RV's propane tank is mounted ... with a hose running from the 5 gal. tank to where the adapter is installed on your RV's propane system.

[Elkman]

A generator is going to be noisy regardless of the fuel it uses. The dealers order a RV with the generator and so for most buyers they take what is on the dealer's lot. Our Navion 24D was ordered by the dealer with the diesel generator even though the RV has a DC only fridge that consumes none of the onboard propane.

With a gas engine powering the RV a propane generator is a better choice but with a RV with a diesel engine it make more sense to have a diesel generator. But it is also a matter of the fridge type installed in the RV.

With a camper we owned the propane fueled a 3-way 6 cu ft fridge and the furnace and the hot water heater and we could go for more than a month in the winter or summer and use less than 5 gallons of propane during the trip. The batteries were recharged with the truck alternator and two 100W solar panels and there was no need for a generator. If we needed to run the AC we stayed at a place where we could get shore power.

When traveling it is much easier to get more diesel at a gas station and replace what was consumed by the generator while filling the fuel tank for the RV engine. With a gas engine no one is going to install a gasoline powered generator but rather one that shares the same fuel source as the hot water heater, the furnace, and the cooktop. Going with a diesel generator would require adding a second fuel tank. It is a matter of practicality and not some esoteric aspect of generator operation that determines which fuel source is best for the generator in an RV.

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Elkman

With a gas engine powering the RV a propane generator is a better choice but with a RV with a diesel engine it make more sense to have a diesel generator. But it is also a matter of the fridge type installed in the RV.

Maybe. But I think it also has to do with how much you use your generator.

Our diesel Fuse came with an LP generator, not a diesel one, and I have found that combination to be a time saver. Our previous RV was a gasser with a gas generator and I found that I needed to make sure before I stopped for the night that I had enough gas in the tank to run the generator as well. That usually meant that I had to stop for a fill up before stopping for the night if we did not have hookups, and I found that to be very inconvenient.

With the propane generator I don't have to worry about that and, since we use the generator only sparingly, a propane fill up lasts for perhaps 6 months and I no longer worry about filling the diesel at night before stopping.

If you are a heavy generator user, then perhaps a diesel generator with a diesel RV is a better combination but, given how rarely and for how short a time we use the generator, I have found propane to be better for us, even with our diesel engine.

[Phil G.]

As for me and RV generators, plus other considerations:

Assuming one always fills their main fuel tank (as they should, IMHO), but not necessarily their propane tank ... whenever heading out in the boondocks to drycamp ... how can a propane generator ever be superior to a gas or diesel generator fueled from a full/nearly full main engine fuel tank?

Since every RV trip where some drycamping might happen should (IMHO) be considered as a possible mini-expedition, one should always as much as possibe have Plans A, B, and maybe C ... available so as to not have a trip cut short, or worse.

What the above means is such things as:

Have all tanks full that should be full. Have all tanks empty that should be empty. Have a backup for RV warming. Have a backup for RV cooling. Have a backup for RV cooking. Have a backup for keeping food cool and frozen. Have a backup for coach and chassis battery charging. Have a backup to fresh water tank capacity. Have a backup for hot water heating. Have a full size inflated spare tire. Have plenty of tools along and some spare parts for the coach and chassis.

FWIW ... never assume RV trip plans will "always work out" ... so prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

[rprochnow]

Our 2021 View came with a 50 pound (about 11 gallon) LP tank and the Sprinter chassis has a 24.5 gallon diesel tank.

We've only been able to refuel our LP tank to around 80% - theoretically providing around 9 gallons of propane.

The generator will stop when the chassis tank gets down to 1/4 - theoretically providing around 18 gallons of diesel.

At 1/2 load, the Onan 3600 LP generator uses around .6 gal/hour, providing about 9 hours of generator minus what is used for gas heating or hot water.

At 1/2 load, the Onan 3200 diesel generator uses around .3 gal/hour, providing about 30 hours of generator - and still leaving 1/4 of the tank for driving - and the entire propane tank for just heater and hot water.

After my experience last week in Galveston - with about 48 hours of subfreezing temperatures and having to run the generator periodically because there wasn't any shore power - I might have run out of propane if I had been using propane also to run the generator.

Is the extra $3K worth it to upgrade the generator from LP to diesel - after last week, at least for us - it was worth it...

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by Phil G.

Assuming one always fills their main fuel tank (as they should, IMHO), but not necessarily their propane tank ... whenever heading out in the boondocks to drycamp ... how can a propane generator ever be superior to a gas or diesel generator fueled from a full/nearly full main engine fuel tank?

I think there are two answers to this question, and it really depends upon what kind of "camping" I am doing.

If I am on a trip somewhere rather than just going out to boondock, then the trip generally consists of several days of driving (which I consider to be very enjoyable in its own right) and stopping for each night. If I am doing this I am not concerned about having a full tank when I stop for the night as I may well be in the middle of nowhere, fuel may be very expensive and I will be on the road in the morning when I can fill up at someplace with reasonable prices and availability. I may have started out that day with a full tank but that does not mean I will be ending it the same way.

If I am going boondocking the trip is almost always short and I fill up before I leave. Given a short trip I am almost always nearly full, or no less than 1/2 of diesel when I stop.

Since I use very little propane (mostly only to run the microwave) I don't have to worry about filling the propane or the diesel.

Originally Posted by Phil G.

Have all tanks full that should be full. Have all tanks empty that should be empty. Have a backup for RV warming. Have a backup for RV cooling. Have a backup for RV cooking. Have a backup for keeping food cool and frozen. Have a backup for coach and chassis battery charging. Have a backup to fresh water tank capacity. Have a backup for hot water heating. Have a full size inflated spare tire. Have plenty of tools along and some spare parts for the coach and chassis.

FWIW ... never assume RV trip plans will "always work out" ... so prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

We have been RV-ing for more than 15 years and we have learned to relax and take things as they come. Do I prepare? Of course? Do I have a backup plan if the refrigerator goes out? Sure. Leave in the morning and head someplace where I can get it fixed. Do I have a plan if the hot water goes out? Sure. Heat water on the stove or in the electric tea kettle. Do I have a backup plan if we run out of propane? Sure. Use the microwave.

For us the idea is to relax and not get caught up in thinking that we are on a Shakelton expedition to the South Pole.

People RV differently and I don't pretend that the way we RV is the way everyone should, but it has worked for us for all of these years and I believe we will continue to travel and camp as we have.

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by Elkman

A generator is going to be noisy regardless of the fuel it uses.

I've read that Onan has finally come out with a quiet inverter RV generator (QG 2800i) but have not seen one in the wild. Hopefully RV manufacturers will make them standard. Unfortunately, it will take a decade or more before they outnumber the old jackhammers that some folks run late into the night while you try to enjoy your campfire, the stars and some quiet peace. Yeah, I know I'm grumpy. Last trip, I had to walk over to another campsite and ask the guy to shut his off.

[Phil G.]

We like to be somewhat spontaneous when on RV trips, so we don't want to have to plan when, or plan how long, we might wind-up or not wind-up drycamping. That means we kindof have to always be ready "for anything" when out and about. For us, RV'ing like this makes us most relaxed because we know we are prepared to either take things as they come or change things on the fly if required or wanted.

We have nearly zero concern for gas prices when it comes to being prepared for unexpected situations. Our record so far has been a $5.00 per gallon price to fillup at a remote gas station just before heading out into the desert in our rig - instead of taking a chance on not needing a lot of fuel for some reason when out there.

Sometimes we carry a small 12V portable refrigerator along with us as backup in case of a major failure of our RV's absorption refrigerator.

One thing we definitely do not want to have to "count on exclusively" is to be able to run into some town in a tow vehicle in order to get timely and/or proper help when unforeseen things crop up. This is especially so in our case because we don't tow along another vehicle ... so as to remain nimble when we travel and drycamp in our 24 ft. Class C.

As far as RV generator use is concerned, to me a running generator is the sound of independence. Ours is fairly quiet and quite acceptable for us to use noise-wise and vibration-wise. If we're so close to other campers that our built-in generator's noise might bother them - then we're drycamping either in the wrong place or in a given place too long. I sometimes merely idle our main V10 engine to charge our coach batteries quickly and quietly so as to not bother other campers if we, or they, are camping too close. The V10 idles very, very quiet and vibration-free. Of course in extreme conditions or emergencies, the main engine can also heat or cool our entire coach interior ... as backup to the coach furnace or coach air conditioning. We used both the cab air conditioning and coach air conditioner once in the middle of the day in the Texas Panhandle in August, and they backed up each other for good comfort in the scorching triple digit heat.

For us, the way to be relaxed is to be prepared.

[johnh123]

When you use the generator to power home appliances, are you just running long extension cords? Or is there a way to tap directly into home power?

[DavidM]

Originally Posted by Old Navy

I've read that Onan has finally come out with a quiet inverter RV generator (QG 2800i) but have not seen one in the wild. Hopefully RV manufacturers will make them standard. Unfortunately, it will take a decade or more before they outnumber the old jackhammers that some folks run late into the night while you try to enjoy your campfire, the stars and some quiet peace. Yeah, I know I'm grumpy. Last trip, I had to walk over to another campsite and ask the guy to shut his off.

I really like the new Onan RV inverter generator to the point of asking if Thor would put one in the new Axis I had on order. No luck. The only MH I know of that comes with that generator is the new EKKO and not many of them have been built so far.

In time, I believe all RV generators will be based on this new inverter technology. It is quieter and more efficient than the old fixed rpm type.

David

[AJMike]

Originally Posted by DavidM

The only MH I know of that comes with that generator is the new EKKO and not many of them have been built so far.

Our local WBGO dealer says they will be in the middle of March and I plan to take a look.

[Old Navy]

Originally Posted by AJMike

Our local WBGO dealer says they will be in the middle of March and I plan to take a look.

gatorb8 on IRV2 bought and installed one back in September to replace a Honda EU2200i. His thread includes a link to the distributor he purchased from. At $3k they are not as expensive as I expected, and he said it is quieter than his Honda.

[Phil G.]

Come on Onan -> now offer larger versions for us motorhome owners who want 4000 watts on up!