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Old 10-11-2020, 06:16 PM   #1
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2020 View Rear Camera

Greetings,
My wife and I just purchased a used 2020 review D and have a question about the rearview camera. Are you able to use the rearview camera while driving down the road so you can see behind your rig. If so can you please share how to navigate through the electronic options .
Additionally, for long-term storage do you remove any of the batteries and place them on Pulse chargers,
Your responses are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,, Skip
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Old 10-12-2020, 11:36 AM   #2
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2019/2020 Sprinter MBUX systems will display the rear camera only while backing up or when moving forward at very low speed.

There isn't a way to override this.

Which is unfortunate... In our Tesla vehicles, if we have enough cargo in the back to block the rear view mirror, we can turn on the rear camera and monitor vehicles behind us. Since the rear view mirror only sees the inside of the RV, being able to use the rear view camera while driving would be very helpful...

And what's even more annoying - Winnebago left in the useless rear view mirror. I checked with our local Sprinter dealer, and they aren't allowed to remove the rear view mirror because it is a "safety" feature - and only Winnebago can take responsibility for removing it.
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Old 10-12-2020, 03:05 PM   #3
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Thanks for your reply. I agree it would be very useful and perhaps an easy program fix. As a former owner of a small Airstream, we installed an rear view camera that was invaluable, particularly during inclement weather.
Skip
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Old 10-12-2020, 03:39 PM   #4
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This isn't a technical issue - it's more likely a legal liability issue or a very strict interpretation of the laws prohibiting video from being in view by the driver while the vehicle is in motion.

Clearly the hardware is there - it's something in the software which turns off the camera after the vehicle starts moving more than a few MPH.
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Old 10-25-2020, 06:36 PM   #5
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Federal law started in 2020 for all vehicles under 10000gvw. So technically Mercedes could get a waiver for the 3500HD chassis but has not.
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Old 10-25-2020, 06:36 PM   #6
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My 22M allows me to keep the rear-view camera turned-on, even when traveling at Hyper-active speeds! This sounds like another case of German over-engineering.
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Old 10-25-2020, 06:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berniez View Post
Federal law started in 2020 for all vehicles under 10000gvw. So technically Mercedes could get a waiver for the 3500HD chassis but has not.
Hi Berniez,
I tried to find the specific law for this, but cannot. Could you possibly provide a link to this legislation?
Thanks, Eagle5
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Old 10-25-2020, 07:01 PM   #8
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The question only relates to 2020 model years and newer. It does not apply to older models.
The older models were built before the new Federal law was applied. This law applies to any vehicle model year 2020 and newer. Posting information about a 2019 is not helpful, only confusing. This same kind of thread was posted in facebook with about 50 messages about older units before the moderator finally closed the thread. That said it does suck on these motorhomes that you currently can't keep the rear camera on full time, only reverse. the fix is to add an additional rear view camera like ones that clip on the rear view mirror.
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Old 10-25-2020, 07:13 PM   #9
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The law is the one requiring reversing cameras for all cars built after 2018. The law was passed in 2008, implemented in 2014 with a 4 year grace period. The law was only intended to be a reverse backup camera. The law was modified in 2019 to make sure the cameras were off in all forward gears due to driver distraction. It all part of the same law. Do a google search for the law passed by the DOT.
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Old 10-25-2020, 08:07 PM   #10
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I did a Google search for the law before I asked you for a link.
I just spent a large amount of time with more Google searches, and still cannot find the law which describes the shut-off when going forward rule.
It is counter-intuitive to say a camera view of the rear is any more or less distracting than a mirror view of the rear.
Owning a 2019, the rule doesn't apply to me, but I find the logic of such a rule to be illusive.
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Old 10-26-2020, 09:52 AM   #11
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rules

Code of Federal Regulations Title 49 Section 577.111 specifically addresses rear visibility for all vehicles that are under the auspices of Section 103 of the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act of 1966, which includes all vehicles that can legally travel on the nationís highways.
Prior to May 2018, the regulation required the inside-mounted rearview mirror to have a 20-degree field of view and the driver's side external mirror to see a zone 2.4 meters from 10.7 meters behind the driverís eyes, barring obstruction from the vehicle itself.
The New Rules

The new requirements require that vehicles with a gross weight of 10,000 pounds or less must be equipped with a device that will give the driver an unobstructed 20-degree field of view immediately behind the vehicle. This field of view constitutes a ten-by-twenty-foot field behind the vehicle. The view image must automatically start within two seconds of starting the backing-up maneuver, deactivate after the vehicle has resumed forward motion or the driver turns it off, and post the image with minimal lag. This would include not only passenger automobiles but also certain models of Type A-1 school buses in the regulationís weight class.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:05 AM   #12
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These rules cover turning off the rear view camera at the end of a backing event.

It does not appear to prevent the rear view camera from being displayed upon request of the driver after the backing event.

Our Tesla vehicles turn off the rear view camera after the backing event is completed. We can then request the rear view camera to be displayed after that - showing us not only the rear camera - but now also shows us side view cameras - while driving.

Mercedes decision not to display the rear view camera while driving doesn't appear to be a regulatory or technical restriction - more likely an overly conservative liability decision, protecting Mercedes from lawsuits if there's an accident while the rear view camera is being displayed.

Also, while Mercedes produces the chassis, Winnebago is likely the manufacturer that is covered by the regulations - since they are the manufacturer who then markets and sells the finished vehicle - not Mercedes.

So if there was a regulatory restriction, Winnebago could seek a waiver - though that would still require Mercedes to make the function available through their MBUX system.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:20 AM   #13
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Rear View camera

We have an Outlook 22c which came with a BOSS installed 2Din radio.
It had the capability of viewing the Rear backup camera at any time via a selection on the radio. So it very possible.
I recently replaced my BOSS radio with an Atoto A6 pro for the added features of having an android based system which offers WiFi connect and GPS.
I found on the install that there is a wire that initiates the backup camera when gear is shifted to reverse. You could disable this feature, but believe you would need a head unit that supports video in also. The Atoto does have support for front camera (which I have hooked up) and could use that option, but did not. Wish I had now to have the option.
I guess it is dependent on if the Radio/Head unit has a video input that is usable at all times. This should be easy for them to do.
What I would realy like is to have a Rear view mirror display from a rear view camera. They do make some wireless ones and was considering this as a option, short of rewiring my head unit.
This would also be a nice option from the vehicle manufacturer and can't see why this is not available on all cars and trucks that have blocked visual windows.
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Old 10-26-2020, 10:21 AM   #14
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Hi Berniez,
Thank you for providing the link to the regulation. For the life of me, I just couldn't find it.
As you mentioned earlier, this ruling does not apply to vehicles of 10,000 GVWR and higher. Here are the Gross Vehicle Weight Ratings (GVWRs) for the Winnebago Class Cs:
  1. E-350 = 12,500 (this is 1,000 pounds more than prior years!!!)
  2. E-450 = 14,500
  3. View, Navion, Vita & Porto = 11,030
Thanks, Eagle5
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Old 10-26-2020, 01:37 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rprochnow View Post
These rules cover turning off the rear view camera at the end of a backing event.

It does not appear to prevent the rear view camera from being displayed upon request of the driver after the backing event.

Our Tesla vehicles turn off the rear view camera after the backing event is completed. We can then request the rear view camera to be displayed after that - showing us not only the rear camera - but now also shows us side view cameras - while driving.

Mercedes decision not to display the rear view camera while driving doesn't appear to be a regulatory or technical restriction - more likely an overly conservative liability decision, protecting Mercedes from lawsuits if there's an accident while the rear view camera is being displayed.

Also, while Mercedes produces the chassis, Winnebago is likely the manufacturer that is covered by the regulations - since they are the manufacturer who then markets and sells the finished vehicle - not Mercedes.

So if there was a regulatory restriction, Winnebago could seek a waiver - though that would still require Mercedes to make the function available through their MBUX system.
You do not understand the law. It does not apply to vehicles with 360 degree cameras, only vehicles with backup cameras built after the 2020 model year. This has nothing to do with Mercedes. The law applies to any vehicle built after 2020 with a standalone back up camera, not 360 cameras. That said Mercedes could have applied for a waiver because the vehicle is over 10000gvw. It would just require a software update to the radio. The problem is anyone would then try to gain access to it and apply it to vehicles under 10000gvw. This affects every manufacturer selling new vehicles in the US.
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Old 10-26-2020, 01:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryT View Post
We have an Outlook 22c which came with a BOSS installed 2Din radio.
It had the capability of viewing the Rear backup camera at any time via a selection on the radio. So it very possible.
I recently replaced my BOSS radio with an Atoto A6 pro for the added features of having an android based system which offers WiFi connect and GPS.
I found on the install that there is a wire that initiates the backup camera when gear is shifted to reverse. You could disable this feature, but believe you would need a head unit that supports video in also. The Atoto does have support for front camera (which I have hooked up) and could use that option, but did not. Wish I had now to have the option.
I guess it is dependent on if the Radio/Head unit has a video input that is usable at all times. This should be easy for them to do.
What I would realy like is to have a Rear view mirror display from a rear view camera. They do make some wireless ones and was considering this as a option, short of rewiring my head unit.
This would also be a nice option from the vehicle manufacturer and can't see why this is not available on all cars and trucks that have blocked visual windows.
I understand this. It does not apply to aftermarket installed radios. If it is an oem chassis installed radio such as gm or Ford, not installed by the motorhome company the law applies. You did not state the year of your Outlook. Plus that vehicle is probably over 10000gvw so the law does not apply
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Old 10-26-2020, 02:18 PM   #17
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The rear view/backup camera rules are regulations - not laws.

DOT regulation 571.111 only applies backup camera rules to vehicles with GVWR less than 10,000 pounds. For vehicles above that, 571.111 only specifies rules for outside mirrors.

And, even if the rules in Section 5 (passenger cars) or Section 6 (non-passenger car vehicles less than 10,000 pounds, excluding school buses) were applied, the wording appears to provide multiple opportunities to implement exceptions to provide some form of backup camera viewing while the vehicle is moving forward. For example, rule 6.2.5 only requires deactivation of rearview images that meet the requirements for rules 6.2.1 (field of view) and 6.2.2 (size) - a rearview image with a field of view or size that is outside of those specifications would not be covered by the rule. Plus, there isn't a rule that specifically states that even a rearview image that meets those specifications cannot be manually selected by the driver after it has been automatically deactivated.

It appears Mercedes/Winnebago could provide backup camera view while moving forward, at least in some form, without violating these regulations - even without requesting an exception.

And based on the uselessness of the interior rear view mirror, clearly there would be value in seeing what is immediately behind the vehicle - such as somebody tailgating so closely to be invisible to the side mirrors.

The latest copy of the regulation I could find is dated October 1, 2019 - is there a newer revision to this regulation (that would expand coverage to RVs and/or specifically prohibit the display of any backup camera images while driving)?
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Old 10-26-2020, 02:38 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berniez View Post
I understand this. It does not apply to aftermarket installed radios. If it is an oem chassis installed radio such as gm or Ford, not installed by the motorhome company the law applies. You did not state the year of your Outlook. Plus that vehicle is probably over 10000gvw so the law does not apply
Thanks, but I was not addressing the regulations. Just mentioning what I did to see if it was a possible option. My Outlook is a 2019 on a Ford E350 and is over 10000gvw.
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Old 10-26-2020, 04:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rprochnow View Post
The rear view/backup camera rules are regulations - not laws.

DOT regulation 571.111 only applies backup camera rules to vehicles with GVWR less than 10,000 pounds. For vehicles above that, 571.111 only specifies rules for outside mirrors.

And, even if the rules in Section 5 (passenger cars) or Section 6 (non-passenger car vehicles less than 10,000 pounds, excluding school buses) were applied, the wording appears to provide multiple opportunities to implement exceptions to provide some form of backup camera viewing while the vehicle is moving forward. For example, rule 6.2.5 only requires deactivation of rearview images that meet the requirements for rules 6.2.1 (field of view) and 6.2.2 (size) - a rearview image with a field of view or size that is outside of those specifications would not be covered by the rule. Plus, there isn't a rule that specifically states that even a rearview image that meets those specifications cannot be manually selected by the driver after it has been automatically deactivated.

It appears Mercedes/Winnebago could provide backup camera view while moving forward, at least in some form, without violating these regulations - even without requesting an exception.

And based on the uselessness of the interior rear view mirror, clearly there would be value in seeing what is immediately behind the vehicle - such as somebody tailgating so closely to be invisible to the side mirrors.

The latest copy of the regulation I could find is dated October 1, 2019 - is there a newer revision to this regulation (that would expand coverage to RVs and/or specifically prohibit the display of any backup camera images while driving)?

This law applies to all vehicles built in the US under 10000GVW. Therefore all chassis makers can leave the backup camera on in forward gears for vehicles over 10000 lbs gvw. They choose not to for the exact reason I explained. It is a simple software patch. I am sure a software hacker could figure it out. I can tell you vehicles were delivered in violation of the law and were recalled to fix it. I know for fact this happened at FCA. It was a simple radio software flash. You can always change the radio head.

You do realize the camera is a backup camera, not a rear camera. This law came into place because a person ran over their child while backing his suv up. He did not see the child. So the intent of the law is for back up purposes. You can call it a law or a regulation. The outcome is the same. If you want to build a new car in the US, you are required to equip it with a backup camera that turns on in reverse, and shuts off going forward. That is what the rule states. I assume the manufacturers lawyers figured this out. You can complain all you want. I suggest calling your congressman. You can add an aftermarket rear view camera. I don't like the law particularly in a motorhome. I have a sprinter based unit on order. I will add a rear view camera that clips on the rear view mirror. Unless someone complains loud enough, we are stuck with it.
You made mention of a button to manually turn the camera on. In fact 2020 Sprinters do have a manually operated button which will turn the camera on. But it shuts off when going 10mph forward. My Ram pickup does exactly the same thing.
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Old 10-26-2020, 06:23 PM   #20
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This is a regulation - congress wasn't involved, and something the executive branch can change without involving congress (which is how the regulation was established).

And the regulation doesn't appear to apply RVs that weigh more than 10,000 pounds.

Though Mercedes does have Sprinter vans that are above and below the 10,000 pound threshold. So it's possible Mercedes decided to use the same rear camera implementation for all Sprinter variants (including the chassis) and restrict the rear camera, even for those Sprinter variants that are above 10,000 pounds and appear to be exempt from the 571.111 regulations.

Rather than wasting energy trying to lobby congress to pass a law to change a regulation (that was not set by congress), what should be more effective would be to encourage Winnebago to work with Mercedes to enable the rear camera while driving.

Winnebago is also the party that can remove the useless rear view mirror - Mercedes won't remove it, because it is classified as a safety device. Since Winnebago is the primary manufacturer (who sold the vehicle), they could remove the rear view mirror, which would make it easier to use the window coverings...

If there's interest in getting the rear camera enabled while driving and/or removing the rear view mirror (which Tiffin has done in their Sprinter Class Cs), should we start a petition and then forward that to Winnebago?
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