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Old 09-20-2014, 08:48 PM   #1
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Winnebago Sightseer/Itasca Sunova 33C

DW and I are looking at motorhomes. We have looked seriously at Tiffin and are also seriously looking at Winnebago Sightseer 33C/Itasca Sunova 33C. What strikes me with Tiffin as compared to most other motorhomes we have looked at is that their wheelbases are longer than other manufacturers’ products of the same length. To me this would translate into better handling and the reduction from affects of wind and bow waves from trucks. Also, a longer rear overhand would, as it appears to me, more likely to scrape the pavement under certain conditions. Also since the shorter wheelbase translates into more storage aft of the rear wheels, the weight in the rear would lighten the load on the front wheels. Also, the more overhang, it would also seem to me to be harder on the toad towing system during rough road conditions.

As such, I was wondering how the 33C handles on the road. Is there much white-knuckle driving as experienced with other coaches that I have read about? I.E., is the 33C affected, much by bow waves or winds? Also, if they are, have any of you installed (or had installed) a track bar and/or a steering stabilizer? If so, did it make a big difference?

I am coming from a 5th wheel and after almost 90,000 miles; there really isn’t much that affects handling wind wise or bow wave wise.

The floorplan of the 33C seems really functional when compared to other motorhomes of the same size.

I would appreciate hearing of any of your experiences or suggestions.

Thanks
Ed
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Old 09-21-2014, 12:14 AM   #2
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Winnebago Sightseer 33C

We just completed an 8000 mile roundtrip from Virginia to Oregon and back in a 2014 Sightseer 33C. We found the rig to handle very well on highways. Bow waves from passing trucks were routine. We had a day or two of high side winds out west, which did cause some fatigue, but nothing I would consider unusual, given the size and shape of the unit.
You're right: the floorplan of the 33C is one of the best on the market.
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Old 09-21-2014, 06:52 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nortguy View Post
We just completed an 8000 mile roundtrip from Virginia to Oregon and back in a 2014 Sightseer 33C. We found the rig to handle very well on highways. Bow waves from passing trucks were routine. We had a day or two of high side winds out west, which did cause some fatigue, but nothing I would consider unusual, given the size and shape of the unit.
You're right: the floorplan of the 33C is one of the best on the market.
Are you considering a track bar and/or steering stablizer?
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:48 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by ed rzepka View Post
DW and I are looking at motorhomes. We have looked seriously at Tiffin and are also seriously looking at Winnebago Sightseer 33C/Itasca Sunova 33C. What strikes me with Tiffin as compared to most other motorhomes we have looked at is that their wheelbases are longer than other manufacturers’ products of the same length. To me this would translate into better handling and the reduction from affects of wind and bow waves from trucks. Also, a longer rear overhand would, as it appears to me, more likely to scrape the pavement under certain conditions. Also since the shorter wheelbase translates into more storage aft of the rear wheels, the weight in the rear would lighten the load on the front wheels. Also, the more overhang, it would also seem to me to be harder on the toad towing system during rough road conditions.

As such, I was wondering how the 33C handles on the road. Is there much white-knuckle driving as experienced with other coaches that I have read about? I.E., is the 33C affected, much by bow waves or winds? Also, if they are, have any of you installed (or had installed) a track bar and/or a steering stabilizer? If so, did it make a big difference?

I am coming from a 5th wheel and after almost 90,000 miles; there really isn’t much that affects handling wind wise or bow wave wise.

The floorplan of the 33C seems really functional when compared to other motorhomes of the same size.

I would appreciate hearing of any of your experiences or suggestions.

Thanks
Ed
Hi Ed-the floorplan and the exterior color combo were a couple of things that sold us on the 33C. I wouldn't have any other floorplan. Mine handled pretty well from the factory. I did the usual mandatory things: alignment, weigh each axle, adjust tire pressures down to load table value, +5 to +10 lbs.

I like to tweak my rides to my own satisfaction so I added the front steering stabilizer and the rear HD Roadmaster 1 3/4" sway bar. The sway bar really helped on sway getting into and out of driveways, and around curves and lane changes, and sway from walking around in the MH while at a campsite, etc.

I had the Kelderman air suspension installed front and back to further improve the ride over rough pavement and overall handling. The front air system included new tapered, variable rate leaf springs, Monroe shocks and a heavier trac bar (the chassis comes with a pretty heavy OEM front trac bar) in addition to the air bags.

The result is that very few semis produce a push on it, and crosswinds do not bother it to any degree. I can drive one-handed in almost any condition, I relax and enjoy the ride-no white knuckles. The ride is pretty nice, with no tracking in pavement ruts, and better ride over bridge abutments and pavement joints and little effect from crosswinds and no effect from all but a few semis.

I added the 5-Star engine tune so that the engine revs less and the transmission doesn't kick down through the gears on every easy hill while on cruise control.

I have come to appreciate the short wheel base. It sure helps getting into and out of gas stations and in tight quarters in campgrounds and around my cul-de-sac at home, etc.

I bought the MH new and have about 18,000 mi on it. It's been out west in the mountains a lot, out east, north and south and in temps from 113F to 20F. We have used it dry camping as well as in luxury RV resorts and everything in between, and from long weekends to months down south in the winter. We tow either a CRV or Rubicon.

Good luck! We love our 33C!

Addendum: In looking at the 2015 Tiffin Allegro 32SA (which is the same length as the 33C) I find that Tiffin uses about the same wheelbase as the 33C (228" vs 220").
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Old 09-23-2014, 09:50 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by aauummm View Post
Hi Ed-the floorplan and the exterior color combo were a couple of things that sold us on the 33C. I wouldn't have any other floorplan. Mine handled pretty well from the factory. I did the usual mandatory things: alignment, weigh each axle, adjust tire pressures down to load table value, +5 to +10 lbs.

I like to tweak my rides to my own satisfaction so I added the front steering stabilizer and the rear HD Roadmaster 1 3/4" sway bar. The sway bar really helped on sway getting into and out of driveways, and around curves and lane changes, and sway from walking around in the MH while at a campsite, etc.

I had the Kelderman air suspension installed front and back to further improve the ride over rough pavement and overall handling. The front air system included new tapered, variable rate leaf springs, Monroe shocks and a heavier trac bar (the chassis comes with a pretty heavy OEM front trac bar) in addition to the air bags.

The result is that very few semis produce a push on it, and crosswinds do not bother it to any degree. I can drive one-handed in almost any condition, I relax and enjoy the ride-no white knuckles. The ride is pretty nice, with no tracking in pavement ruts, and better ride over bridge abutments and pavement joints and little effect from crosswinds and no effect from all but a few semis.

I added the 5-Star engine tune so that the engine revs less and the transmission doesn't kick down through the gears on every easy hill while on cruise control.

I have come to appreciate the short wheel base. It sure helps getting into and out of gas stations and in tight quarters in campgrounds and around my cul-de-sac at home, etc.

I bought the MH new and have about 18,000 mi on it. It's been out west in the mountains a lot, out east, north and south and in temps from 113F to 20F. We have used it dry camping as well as in luxury RV resorts and everything in between, and from long weekends to months down south in the winter. We tow either a CRV or Rubicon.

Good luck! We love our 33C!

Addendum: In looking at the 2015 Tiffin Allegro 32SA (which is the same length as the 33C) I find that Tiffin uses about the same wheelbase as the 33C (228" vs 220").
"aauummm"

Thanks for the info. Based on my reading in the forums, I pretty much figured how it would handle. However, even though I knew a shorter wheelbase would give the a right tighter turning ability, I really never thought about it that much. Judging the tight quarters where we have camped with over the last 11 years with our 5er, a shorter wheelbase motorhome would make things easier. In looking at motorhomes I have always focused the stability of a longer wheelbase.

A couple of other questions?
After all you've done to your suspension, why didn't you do the CHP?

You installed a larger sway rear sway bar. Why didn't install a rear rac bar instead? I have read good things about them.

Regarding the Kelderman air suspension, I looked at it on line. I knew it would be expensive, but the price took my breath away and I's sure that installation could add another 30%-50% to that price. I assume you are really happy with it. Can you see a situation where somebody spends that money and feel that it is not worth it?

thanks
ed
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Old 09-23-2014, 11:18 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by ed rzepka View Post
"aauummm"

Thanks for the info. Based on my reading in the forums, I pretty much figured how it would handle. However, even though I knew a shorter wheelbase would give the a right tighter turning ability, I really never thought about it that much. Judging the tight quarters where we have camped with over the last 11 years with our 5er, a shorter wheelbase motorhome would make things easier. In looking at motorhomes I have always focused the stability of a longer wheelbase.

A couple of other questions?
After all you've done to your suspension, why didn't you do the CHP?

You installed a larger sway rear sway bar. Why didn't install a rear rac bar instead? I have read good things about them.

Regarding the Kelderman air suspension, I looked at it on line. I knew it would be expensive, but the price took my breath away and I's sure that installation could add another 30%-50% to that price. I assume you are really happy with it. Can you see a situation where somebody spends that money and feel that it is not worth it?

thanks
ed
Ed-You've got some very good questions and those deserve a good detailed reply. I have to run on some errands for now but I will come back later to do a suitable reply. Wayne
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Old 09-23-2014, 05:28 PM   #7
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I also have a 2010 Sunova 33C and it has steering stabilizers and Bilstien shocks. After 25000 miles it handles very nicely, even in crosswinds. Our previous RV was a 5th wheel. We tow a CRV. The floor plan is the best, but Winnebago dropped the layout in the diesel version. We have our unit for sale with intentions of moving to a used diesel version. I really donot understand why Winnebago is not expanding the use of the floor plan. Good luck on your shopping.
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:12 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by ed rzepka View Post
"aauummm"

Thanks for the info. Based on my reading in the forums, I pretty much figured how it would handle. However, even though I knew a shorter wheelbase would give the a right tighter turning ability, I really never thought about it that much. Judging the tight quarters where we have camped with over the last 11 years with our 5er, a shorter wheelbase motorhome would make things easier. In looking at motorhomes I have always focused the stability of a longer wheelbase.

A couple of other questions?
After all you've done to your suspension, why didn't you do the CHP?

You installed a larger sway rear sway bar. Why didn't install a rear rac bar instead? I have read good things about them.

Regarding the Kelderman air suspension, I looked at it on line. I knew it would be expensive, but the price took my breath away and I's sure that installation could add another 30%-50% to that price. I assume you are really happy with it. Can you see a situation where somebody spends that money and feel that it is not worth it?

thanks
ed
I approached the whole MH chassis modifications in a step-by-step approach. I laid out a 30 mile test course that I run after each change in the chassis. The course has most all of the road conditions that I would encounter in a 2000 mile trip. I record the results after each run in a spreadsheet for reference. I started out with the basics, weigh the coach, adjust tire pressures (installed Cat's Eye tire air pressure equalization on rear duals), and front end alignment.

The wheelbase. My previous MH had a 242" wheelbase and this one is 220". I wondered about the ride quality due to the shorter wheelbase and even mentioned it to the dealer before purchase. I haven't really noticed that much difference in ride quality that I could attribute to the wheelbase. However, I have witnessed the longer rigs running over and hitting things because of their larger turning radius (I've got some good stories to tell about those).

The Kelderman air suspension. At 9,500 miles I added this for a number of reasons. On a flat surface the front of the MH was lower than the rear, stock from the factory. Next it was rougher riding than I liked on bad bridge abutments, pavement joints, potholes, etc. The air bags allowed me to adjust the height and improve the ride while the included Monroe Gas Magnum shocks and new variable rate front leaf springs would also help soften the ride. I could have added shims to the front but that would only take care of ride height and wouldn't be adjustable, and with no improvement in ride.

The Kelderman in the rear is a complete add-on steel frame with the air bags incorporated between the Kelderman frame and the chassis frame. The rear eye of the leaf spring is no longer attached directly to the chassis frame but is instead attached to the add-on steel frame. The air bags and their steel frame provide height adjustability, improved ride over bumps and added lateral stability.

I am not a salesman for Kelderman nor am I connected to them in any way. I just had a set of handling parameters that I wanted to improve and their design seemed to be one that would do it. Everyone's situation and expectations are different, so there might be someone out there who might feel that their system is not worth it.

Sway. I felt that I could improve upon the sway in the MH as it came from the factory. Since I was having the Kelderman done, I decided to have them add the HD anti-sway bar in the rear at the same time. This gave me a great deal of flexibility. If I needed more sway control than two anti-sway bars, I could do the rear CHF in addition and change the end links, etc. If I did the CHF only and it wasn't enough sway control then I'd have to go back and add the HD anti-sway bar at a later date and I didn't want to do that.

I left the front end with the stock anti-sway bar. This gave me flexibility in that if I needed more sway control than what I had in the rear end I could do the CHF and end links and if that wasn't enough then I could do the HD anti-sway bar.

I now have 8,600 miles on the Kelderman air suspension and rear HD anti-sway bar, etc. (I had them add the Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer also) so I've been able to do a pretty thorough evaluation on it. So far my modifications have accomplished what I wanted them to do. The MH basically drives like a car. I think that they should all come like that from the factory.

I have no tail wagging so I won't need the rear trac bar. I don't have excessive sway so I won't have to do any sway bar adjustments. There are no problems with wind (just got back from 2500 mi trip across Kansas to Colorado, NM and back). After a stop in a rest area in Kansas I got out and only then realized that I'd been driving in a 45 mph crosswind. I drive relaxed and with one hand.

Bad pavement joints and bridge abutment impacts are reduced. Semis passing me don't push me over and then suck me back in. Maybe one in fifty semis will give a bit of a push, but not enough to require two hands on the wheel.


Anti-swaybar adjustments. Before doing the Kelderman, etc. I did a lot of studying on suspensions. Swaybar adjustments are an important factor in suspension tuning for race cars and have been for a long time. The definitive books on the subject are two books by Carroll Smith; "Tune to Win, 1978" and "Engineer to Win, 1985" and one by Fred Puhn; "How to Make a Car Handle, 1981". Adjustable anti-sway bars for some race cars will have multiple holes (I've seen pictures of ones with four or five) and adjustable anti-swaybar end links. The concept is not new and the physics and formulas apply to motorhomes as well as race cars and family cars, etc.

In the rear, I wanted to know how much more sway control over stock could I expect with adjustments alone versus with an additional sway bar. So using Puhn's formula I found that if you let the stock setup on a 2011 F53 chassis =1, then moving the anti-sway bar links to the back hole alone would =2 (or twice as much sway resistance as stock). Adding a 1 3/4" anti-sway bar to the stock anti-sway bar (without moving the endlinks) would =3. Doing both, adding the additional anti-sway bar and moving the stock links to the rear hole of the stock anti-sway bar would =4. I chose to go with increasing the sway resistance by three times, by adding an additional anti-sway bar, with the option to go to four if I felt it was needed.

On the front, if stock =1, then either moving the endlinks to the back hole or a new HD anti-sway bar =2. Since my sway resistance is fine with the current setup I chose to leave the front anti-sway bar stock.

Sorry about the length of time for a reply. The errands took longer than expected and now I've got to go do some more. The wife had her gallbladder removed last week so I'm the nursemaid until I can get her back on the road again!

Wayne
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:21 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
I also have a 2010 Sunova 33C and it has steering stabilizers and Bilstien shocks. After 25000 miles it handles very nicely, even in crosswinds. Our previous RV was a 5th wheel. We tow a CRV. The floor plan is the best, but Winnebago dropped the layout in the diesel version. We have our unit for sale with intentions of moving to a used diesel version. I really donot understand why Winnebago is not expanding the use of the floor plan. Good luck on your shopping.
Corncob the diesel version of the 33C is now the Journey/Meridian 34B in the new 2014 models and there are some left out there. I don't know if they have it for 2015. It used to be called the Journey/Meridian 34Y back in 2009, etc.
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Old 09-24-2014, 07:32 AM   #10
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Wayne:

First, I hope you wife will be okay and that she has a speedy recovery.

About the suspension, you have provided alot of valuable information and food for thought. We are probaby a year plus out for form buying a motorhome. Still don't know what we will end up with, the the 33C is on our short list. When the purchase does occur, I will probably do the CHP and start out with the rear track bar and a steering stablizer basically more along the lines of what Corncob has do. Stability and driveability is what is important to me, I guess we can put up with a rough ride. 5 Star is a given.

What is you mileage both towing and not towing?

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Old 09-24-2014, 07:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
I also have a 2010 Sunova 33C and it has steering stabilizers and Bilstien shocks. After 25000 miles it handles very nicely, even in crosswinds. Our previous RV was a 5th wheel. We tow a CRV. The floor plan is the best, but Winnebago dropped the layout in the diesel version. We have our unit for sale with intentions of moving to a used diesel version. I really donot understand why Winnebago is not expanding the use of the floor plan. Good luck on your shopping.

Corncob:

Thanks for you input. Has what you done complete eliminated wind sway and bow waves.

thanks
ed
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:25 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Corncob View Post
I also have a 2010 Sunova 33C and it has steering stabilizers and Bilstien shocks. After 25000 miles it handles very nicely, even in crosswinds. Our previous RV was a 5th wheel. We tow a CRV. The floor plan is the best, but Winnebago dropped the layout in the diesel version. We have our unit for sale with intentions of moving to a used diesel version. I really donot understand why Winnebago is not expanding the use of the floor plan. Good luck on your shopping.
Corncob- I found a 2015 Itasca Meridian 34B, so Winnebago is still making the diesel version (floorplan wise) of the 33C.

New 2015 Itasca Meridian 34B Class A - Diesel For Sale - Camping World of Tampa
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Old 09-24-2014, 08:39 AM   #13
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Wayne:

First, I hope you wife will be okay and that she has a speedy recovery.

About the suspension, you have provided alot of valuable information and food for thought. We are probaby a year plus out for form buying a motorhome. Still don't know what we will end up with, the the 33C is on our short list. When the purchase does occur, I will probably do the CHP and start out with the rear track bar and a steering stablizer basically more along the lines of what Corncob has do. Stability and driveability is what is important to me, I guess we can put up with a rough ride. 5 Star is a given.

What is you mileage both towing and not towing?

ed
I've always towed so I've only got mileage records for that. Most of our traveling is with the genset running. A lot of traveling in the mountains out west. Rarely do I get a tailwind, it's always a head wind. I always travel with at least 1/3 of a tankful of gas and at least 1/2 tankful of fresh water. Under those conditions I get 6.5 to 7.0 mpg average overall. It has varied from 6-8 mpg over one tankful of gas.
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Old 09-24-2014, 05:59 PM   #14
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As for sway, etc, my coach travels well at 60mph towing the CRV. Any wind impact is momentary and non-issue in my view. I say this after many miles towing a 5th wheel.
Thanks for the 34Y input. I am aware of that floor plan. The 34T Forza/Solei has replaced that model going forward per my response from Winnebago. The last production runs of the 34Y they replaced the lounge chair with the L shaped lounge. That is the big difference. Winnebago also stated that the 34T is an entry level and several small items were omitted, e.g. Gas/electric water heater (comes with gas only), only one AC has a heat pump and some other suttle differences. Price point is the market buzz. Supposedly, per a regional sales guy, they are going to make the gas/electric water heater a standard due to all customer complaints.
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Old 09-24-2014, 06:15 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=Corncob;2242532]As for sway, etc, my coach travels well at 60mph towing the CRV. Any wind impact is momentary and non-issue in my view. I say this after many miles towing a 5th wheel.
QUOTE]

I assume by "wind impact" you mean both the wind produced by mother nature and bow waves from trucks?

thanks
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