Winnebago Journey Lemon?

[FrankieJ]

... it is hard to read all these comments and not respond in one way or another.

Knock on wood, I bought a used "99" 34Y Chieftain and feel very fortunate to have everything working.

After reading all the comments both pro and con ... I almosty feel guilty enjoying my rig ... almost. I hope this does not come back to bite me.

I would like to interject one comment here, and that would be ... it may be true that the pen is mighter than the sword ... and that a letter sent to Winnebago each and every time you are not satisfied with your dealer's service and your product's malfunctions may make them sit up and take notice. I don't think any manufacturer wants to purposely have a bad reputation ... there is too much at stake in the competitive market place. The cost of a letter and stamp would be a minor expense to bring these malfunctions to light and may actually contribute to some positive introspective changes on the manufacturing end.

Having been involved in manufacturing early on in my working days, I valued the customer's input so I could adjust my product more to their liking.

Thanks for the opportunity to be a part of this forum. I have learned a lot from you owners.

[rehcuobbob]

FrankieJ:

You said the magic words! "USED"! Likely someone else had all the headaches and aggravation of fixing all these darn things that go wrong on new units. In my view, Quality Control at the plant and decent P.D.I.'s at the dealership would catch a great many of these items. The auto industry were pushed into it by foreign competition and maybe the same will happen to the R.V. Industry, we can only hope.

Interesting to note that all our problems seem to have occured in the first year of ownership of our bought new 2000 model, nothing but regular maintenance since it's first anniversary.

[The Shadow]

Have a look at the second item on this page.

[/QUOTE]Wash requirements


[QUOTE]Originally posted by cboh1:
FrankieJ, Well put.

I have an open question.

I have been told that Winnebago has a contract agreemnet with the dealers that they must power wash the underside of a MH when they get to the lot. The dealer answers that by saying that it is not true and any rust or other corrosion is the manufacturers fault. They dealer denies this is a contractual agrement

[The Shadow]

Looks like I'll be living with mine for at least two more years. We paid $215k Cdn for the 39W 11 months ago. Dealer just said he wants $89,900 CDN to move from our 2004 to a 2005 39K. Given that the 39K has a price tag on it of $229k (list is $286K - they must have bought when our dollar was very low), that means they are giving us $139k for ours - or $111k US$. Maybe the gap is what they need to survive on and keep good service staff. Of course my 39W would hit the lot at a much higher value. They have a 2003 39QD on the lot and on their web site they are asking $199.9K Cdn.

I have to say I was reluctant to even consider the 39K since its CCC on the label is 783 KG or 1722 lbs. Our 39W has a CCC of more than double that amount (no doubt this is one of the reasons that as of April 1, 39 ft units shipped are on a chassis that has a GVWR of 1500 lbs more - all on the rear wheels).

I asked about a Vectra 40FD and they want an additional $59k above the $89.9k for the 39K.

So, I'll just have to make sure we get all of our problems fixed properly and enjoy it for 2 more years - rust and all (mind you, I expect them to do something about the rust or they will be in for a battle royal). Thank goodness the underlying FTL, CAT and Allison systems are good.

Out of curiousity, what would one pay for a well equipped Vectra 40FD in the US. I figure a 20% discount is not demanding, and if I apply that to the list price of the Vectra ($333,775) I get a transaction price of $267,000. If that is reasonable, deducting the difference of $148,900 puts a value of $118,120 CDN on my 39W - which is abaout $95K US. Even though I'm an accountant, I now understand depreciation much better.

[NHRAF145]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My dealer has been very good with the problems but I know he will not fix the same things again and again indefinitely for free. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey GG1,

I see you are from New Jersey. So am I....I am curious to know who your dealer is that you have been pleased with. We just took delivery of our 2005 Itasca meridian 34H from a local dealer. I am always interested in knowing what is going on locally and who is good.

Thanks, Shawn

[Captain Bud]

Im curious also, who is the Jersey Dealer?

[The Shadow]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Captain Bud:
Im curious also, who is the Jersey Dealer? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe Winnie can get him to set up in Ontario.

[GG1]

Media Camping, Tyburn Rd in Fairless Hills Pa. They have 2 locations I deal with the Fairless Hills location Its just over the Delaware River bridge south of Yardley. Its a no frills place but the deals are good and service is very good. I wish they sold Tiffin or Newmar products

[NHRAF145]

LOL, OK cool. That's where I purchased mine. The deal was killer, blew everyone away! My only complaint was the prep was weak to say the least. Otherwise they have been great. My airhorn solenoid is bad and they sent me the new one for me to replace. I haven't got a chance to do it yet, but I like that type of service.

Shawn

[GG1]

I hope you didn't accept that for an answer. It sounds like he just wants you to go away.

As a fellow Winnebago Coach owner, I am troubled by all the problems you are having with your Journey. It kind of makes a person feel like they have been singled out, but as I stated earlier, it's taken me over two years to get all the bugs worked out of our coach. Some of the problems have brought my patiences to a boil more then once, in fact, just thinking about them while I'm writing this reply and knowing how Winnebago's Customer Service Manager and Service Advisor lied to us; rekindles the fire.

I dare say, you have gotten a lot of miles out of your topic, more then most, almost 3,000 readers and it's still at the top of the forum.

If people aren't reading these forums before they buy those new coaches, they have no one to blaim but themselves. Why anyone would pass up an opportunity to learn more about a product and the manufacture before they spend their life savings, is beyond me. This forum wasn't here when we bought, from that, we can only say "We've been there and done that."

Tomcat F15

[Dave Head]

What I believe should happen for a new coach delivery:
1. Manufacturer does a PDI before shipping the coach. They are the 'primary' experts. Someone signs off - and the manufacturer tracks the signoff for future problems.
2. Dealer does an arrival PDI - if there are more than 'X' serious items, the coach goes back. They are the 'secondary' experts.
3. Then the dealer does a PDI with the customer.

The problem is, there is NO accountability in the delivery process, and NO attempt to track the problems so that they can be corrected for the next build.

["007"]

Jon & Vicki Pritchard, We welcome you back

We have not heard from you since you post your first two threads,the only ones, on this site. Some of us would like, to put it mildly, know how you have made out with "your problems only" have they been resolved to your satisfaction or do you still have problems.
Your list has been high jacked by others thru no fault of yours, please let us know how you are making out, good or bad. Start a new post if you like. ----"007"

[hasebr]

Our Journey has been haveing problems ever when we drove it of the lot. Recently we drove it down to madison and when we got there the low coolent level light came on and the batteries were over chargeing. The Low coolent level didn't suprise us due to the fact two weeks after we bought it the coolent hose fell of and sprayed antifrezze all over the Red Wing bridge. Anyway we did think nothing of it. We drove it home and we parked in our drive way and the thing would not start. We called workhorse and they came a towed it to the cities two hours away and to find out the fuel sensor was bad for a long time. After they towed it we had it sent it the dealer to get warrenty work done. Two months later it is not fixed and we went to pick it up and the washer and dryer broke again and the thermostat broke and they put a huge scrach in the side of the motorhome. The lemon law in minnsota and wisconson say that it the unit is out of service for more than 30 days the we can file. What should i do?

Here is a list of things that went bad.
Door Awing Motor
Patio Awing Motor
All 5 batteries hooked up wrong
Lose hose clamp on radiator
Leather on couch was defective
Washer and dryer on and off button
Thermostat
Jacks all replaced
Air Horns
Cruse Control
Winsheld Whiper Controls
Driver Winsheld
Awing Fabric
Rechargeable Flashlight
Awing Controls
Fuel Sensor
Water Heater Piolt

Help Me!!!

[vicsryd]

Did anyone ever help out poor hasebr. He posted on May 9th and this thread just up and died after that.

[vicsryd]

Hi All,

I lost track of this thread because somehow it "disappeared" from the Winnebago's Industry Owner's Forum back around May 10th. Then when the databases were fouled up yesterday before Infopop restored everything this was one of only four threads in the Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum. As of right now it's only visible in the New Rigs Show-Off forum and cannot be found via search. Very wierd.

I've made techical support posts and moderator reports requesting this be moved back to the Winnebago forum. Once it's moved/relinked I'll bring my part of this thread up-to-date.

[vicsryd]

In response to Mike Lutz's May 1st request for an update....

The coach has had four more dealer visits including one to Freightliner (each of those experiences has their own side story which for the morbidly curious I'll post the details in the next post). After seven additional weeks out of our hands (for a total of 14 weeks since closing the purchase on February 27th) we currently have no major issues although I'm still hassling with Freightliner over the aftermath of aa minor alignment/vibration diagnosis. However, we've also only been able to take one four day trip outside of the original two day shakedown. We have a two week, 1200 mile trip starting 7/23. Proof will be in the pudding so to speak..

The biggest life lesson I've learned from this experience is don't buy a new motor home unless you have lots of free time you can dedicate exclusively to the MH whether it's the new bugs to work out or just getting it set up right..

My wife is semi-retired with a seamstress business but I still work full time (50+ hours a week including some travel). Needless to say it's been a challenge dealing with all these issues.

Additionally, the experience increased my stress sufficiently (think straw that broke the camel's back here) that I started having severe pain in my right jaw and ear in late April. A month later I was diagnosed as having TMJ. Now I have a nighttime splint to add to my get ready for bed routine.

Additional stress not what I envisioned when we bought this coach (our first). I almost wish I was still renting. But then again that was painful too.

In the big picture now that we've survived the hazing to indoctrinate ourselves into RV ownership we'll stick it out. However, I want to extend a big thank you to the RV industry as a whole for one of the worst examples of quality control for major product made in the USA. Something to be proud of, eh? To be sure there are good coaches out there and some manufactuers may be better than others overall. Same for dealers. But based on what I read in these forums it seems like quality is inconsistent regardless of manufacturer and that inconsistency make the whole thing a crap shoot.

Maybe it takes $2M for a custom coach to get it right.

[vicsryd]

Now the legacy of what happened between April 22nd and today. Some will say too much detail but I feel there is some interesting insight to be had here. Also, if anyone wants dealership names please PM me.

April 26-29: Freightliner Oasis Dealer
- Coach pulling to the right, wheel vibration between 55-60 mph, initial maintenance (at this point the coach had been build 12 months earlier and the oil had never been changed).
- Dealer claimed alignment was within spec and could not detect any wheel vibration. However, magically the alignment problem was mostly corrected and the wheel vibration (high frequency felt in steering wheel/seat). They charged me for the diagnosis instead of calling it a warranty repair. FCCC is going to bat for me trying to get at least a partial refund but they can't really tell the dealer what to do.

April 30th: Washing coach discovered a leak in the windshield. Subsequent douses of heavy rain confirm the finding.

May 1st: Discovered a serious hydraulic leak coming from behind the HWH control box
when we extended the slideouts. Also, the slideouts were creeping back in.

May 2nd:
- Discovered the mudguard had been seriously damaged by the mounting angle bracket cutting through the top metal reinforcments. Occurred at some point when the suspension air was dumped for leveling.
- Made an appointment with a local Itasca dealer (at this point Itasca/Winnie is six of one, half-dozen of the other) to see if someone closer could knock off some of the new problems. They were nice and helpful over the phone. Only had to wait a week to get in.

May 3rd: Original dealer called and said the replacement window finally came in. Made a tentative appointment for May 16th thinking positively we would not get hung up with the local Itasca dealer for the ˜new' issues.

May 8th:
– Continuing issues with house batteries not holding charge even with shut off. Diagnosed on my own the ˜new' batteries the dealer had put in back at time of delivery in fact had one bad cell each. The batteries were not a Winnebago approved brand and so we were going to have to make another 4 hour trip to the original dealer to have to replace them (with Interstate this time!!!).
– The front door started getting difficult to open.

May 10th-14th: Large Itasca Dealer in Portland Metro Area
– After we checked in with ther service writer and he found we were not in their system (i.e. didn't buy the coach there?) it seemed like he treat us like second class citizens. They were going to limit us to a maximum of five warranty items with a promise date of a minimum of 21 days. The service manager wasn't in at that moment and so my initial thought to walk out. But I reallly wanted the hydaulic leak fixed. I negotiated to have them work on just the mudguard (start the process anyway), the windshield and hydraulic leaks. Since the leaks were Trip Saver type they would try to get them done by the end of the week.
– To my surprise they called four days later and said the coach was ready to be picked up.
– The mudguard was on order and could take a month (expected).
– They assured us they tested for the leak (apparently with a garden hose without a Seal-Tech which pressurizes the coach) and found nothing. As a precaution they went ahead and shot silicon around the windshield and clearance lights.
– They said the seals on both HWH solenoids had disintegrated. They chose to rebuild the solenoids instead of replacing them. We tested the HWH system before leaving and found no sign of a hydraulic leak.
– We discovered within a couple of hours the windshield still leaked (rain) and after being parked found fresh hydraulic fluid on the ground. We also found they had allowed/left globs of silicon on the windshield and lower nose cap area.
– I discovered pretty quickly the source of the hydraulic fluid was in a different location than before. Upon inspection I determined it the hydraulic reservoir vent cap was not screwed on, probably after topping off the resevoir. A case of someone missing the little things.
– Called the dealer to report our findings. They acted as if they didn't care.
- Called to Winnebago Service Administration about the dealer. They took informaiton and "would look into it" but we never heard anything about it again.
– We'll probably avoid this dealer in the future unless we break down at their front door.

May 16th-June 4th: Original Dealer (4 hours away)
– Bedroom window replacement, house battery issue, windshield leak, door hard to open.
– During the write-up they discovered the screen door was misaligned and the latch was in the way when the screen was ˜mated' to the main door. Also the screen door latch was cracked from the stress.
– They offered to take over the mudguard issue and redirect the parts.
– Over the course of next week they reported finding several other small problems (yes, they went looking for problems!!!) including the door lock solenoid getting ready to fail (it had not failed yet). They also reported they believed the windshield leak was from a Sirius antennae not being properly sealed.
– To my surprise on May 26th the service writer called and said the coach would be ready to be picked up on Saturday May 28th. I decided that instead of driving the toad out and towing it back I'd take the train as a nice ˜escape'. It takes no longer to get there and it's a lot let stressful (think beer and beautiful Columbia Gorge scenery).
– When I got to the dealer the paperwork was not ready and soon discovered not all the work was completed. In fact, all the parts were not in yet. The service writer totally blew it (I still don't know the particulars but I know the service manager did some thorough digging afterwards).
– One of the things not completed was repainting the coach around where the bedroom window was replaced. It turned out the new window was 1/8"� narrower all the way around from the original exposing gray primer. This confirmed the full body paint is applied AFTER the windows are installed. If I had not shown up out of accident I don't think I would have known about this.
– There wasn't a return train until the next morning (which the dealer gladly would have paid for) so they opted to have me driven home by the technician who was doing most of the work on my coach. A very pleasant and educational experience actually.
– A week later they delivered the coach to me. However, the mudguard still had not been replaced. They agreed to ship it to me at my home address when it came in.
– Snafu's aside a good attitude makes up for a lot.

June 9th - 12th : First real outing.
- Went to Cape Disappointment on the Washington Coast.
– Generally a good trip but discovered that it had been so long since our delivery walkthrough we had to resort to the user manuals to remember how some systems worked.
– Found under both the kitchen and bathroom sinks was damp. Discovered both the kitchen and bathroom faucets were not caulked at the counter surface. Quick fix with a tube of silicon.
– It rained. The windshield leaked again (sigh).

June 16th:
– Called the original dealer and asked if they had tested their theory about the Sirius antennae not being sealed properly. The tech said no, he did not run a water test after sealing the antennae. He fell on his sword that it was an oversight and suggested I find a dealer closer who has one of the Seal-Tech units.
– Selected another Winnebago dealer (went north this time) to try out that was closer to home. They gave us an appointment the next Monday!!
– Replacement mudguard is delivered to the house. Now I'm waiting for weather, coach availability and paving project in front of my house before I replace it. I've got a new approach for to hang it so it will lay over more easily and no more angle brackets (at least not pointing down).

June 20th – July 1st: Yet Another Winnebago Dealer (went north):
– This dealer treated us very well despite the fact we didn't purchase the coach there. Much better attitude than the Itasca dealer mentioned previously.
– Since this was going to be the third time chasing the windshield leak and noting where things stood relative to the Washington State lemon law for Motorhomes (there's a special version for MH's which says 3 failures to repair a specific item and your eligible for state sponsored arbitration) I requested they use a Seal-Tech to test the coach. The dealer agreed.
– Dealer called a couple of days later saying Winnebago refused to pay the billable rate to use a Seal-Tech to test the coach (about $200). The dealer said they would do it the old fashioned way and go over it with a fine tooth comb. Ironically, it would turn out later the amount/cost of labor the dealer would charge Winnebago would exceed the cost of using the Seal-Tech.
– Dealer found a void in the seal at the top of the driver's side windshield. Resealed the whole windshield with the right materials (not silicon).
– It took an extra five days to get the coach back because the dealer had a rush of high-revenue 911 customers and a couple of tech ended up being out.
– So far the windshield leak appears to be fixed. We'll find out for sure in the next few weeks.

June 30th:
- Received Winnebago mudguard campaign letter. I inspected the new mudguard I just received (but not yet installed) and found it DOES NOT have he reinforcement kit on it.!!
- Local dealer says minimum of 2-3 weeks before the kits come in. May have to use the old mudguard on the big trip.

Right now, there are no serious problems left on the list. If new problems come up that I can fix myself I'll be happy.

I'll post another update in August after we get back from the big trip.

[ichn2go]

Good Luck on your upcoming trip. You have had more than your share of troubles and I hope you are near the end of your ordeal. Yes buying and owning a new motor home the first year is very very frustrating. Seems like we all go through it.
I would like to refer you back to Capt. Bill's post. Everything said there is very true.

I was fortunate enough to buy from a dealer that cares and has a tech that has worked on motor homes,trailers and 5thwheels for over 20 years. It still took 2/3 visits for a couple of issues but they got fixed. Another plus for me is that I had a heart to heart with the dealer and service manager before I signed and we all agreed how my coach would be handled after purchase. Again I was fortunate that he is only 10 minutes away.
The coach would be taken in and fixed in a timely manner. If parts had to be ordered the coach did not stay at the dealers waiting for parts, I brought it home. All of this has occured and I could not be more satisfied with my dealer.

A couple of times before a trip I had a issue and it was bring it right down and we'll take a look. Sometimes it was just for my piece of mind and it was in and out. I feel truly fortunate to have a dealer like this after reading of all your and other folks troubles

I hope your long trip will be trouble free and you have a wonderful time. Good Miles

[timz61]

Long sad tale on Winnebago build quality and quality of service. We took delivery on our coach (05 Itasca Meridian 34) last August 15th and left for a cross country trip on Labor Day. There were several production glitches that we were unable to get corrected prior to leaving - mostly minor but annoying. One major problem was a broken exhaust pipe immediately after the engine turbocharger that had dropped down on the big wires to the inverter - burned insulation - Freightliner fixed the exhaust and a tech reinsulated the wires with the intent of replacing the wiring harness when we returned in the spring. By the time we got back in April, we had a list of 23 defects that needed to be addressed - included - mud guard, roof wrinkles, heat pump vibrations and noise, rattle in entry door, windshield gasket, shield between propane tank and wheels, loose moulding, failed pantry latch, failed blind,defective jack, defective batteries, failed motor in door awning - to be truthful, nothing that prevented our use of the rig but a lot of stuff that would have been real trouble down the road. Our dealer was cooperative and was working on the problems but the coach had been there for over 6 weeks waiting for parts. We looked at a really nice Dutch Star on the lot and we were ready to throw rocks at the Winne. Thus far number of defects on the DS - "0". The difference in the fit and finish and attention paid to quality control is substantial plus the 3 year bumper to bumper warranty. Easy decision. My only regret is that I didn't step up and spend the additional $30K to begin with.