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Old 04-16-2005, 06:34 AM   #1
Winnie-Wise
 
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We have a 39W and the posted CCC is 3900 lbs. That has to be adjusted for the washer/dryer that was installed at the dealer.

We've been very unhappy with the two dozen problems we've encountered with this coach and several remain to be corrected before the warranty expires at the end of May. We've had some thoughts about trading and if the coach could pass a "super inspection" we would consider a Journey/Meridian 39K and 39F as well has the Vectra/Horizon 40FD.

When I first saw the F and FD floor plans they totally turned me off - I was just not interested - the last floorplan in the world I'd want.

Well, use and time have a way of changing impressions. We were at Lazy Days last Sunday to browse after buying a few things at Camping World and to our surprise we found we really liked the FD. That made me think back to the 39F as well.

When I looked at the label in the 40FD it said CCC was between 1900 and 2000 lbs. My 39W has almost twice the CCC. The GVWR is 32,000 vs 27,910 for my 39W. I guess the four slides and slightly extra length take their toll. What also surprises me is the storage space for the FD vs the AD and KD - 136.4 vs 179.8 and 181.2. It is not obvious what would be consuming the storage space (the fourth slide?).

I'm starting to ask myself if most Vectras and Horizons could be running close to their weight limits, if not a bit over.

When I look at the Journey/Meridian for 2005 I see some strange numbers in the brochure (I have the Meridian version). Exterior storage for the 39F is shown as 79 cu ft and the 39K is 141.6. What could possible cause this difference. The 39F would be out of the question for us because of the much reduced storage area.

I'd appreciate it if forum members with the Journey/Meridian 39F and 39K could post the CCC that is posted in their coaches. Also, if you've had your coach weighed I'd be interested in the front and rear axle weights. We hope to get ours weighed on Tuesday. A friend with a 2004 39W gave me his weights on a chat forum recently (I erred and didn't write them down) and he had good cushions for both the front axle and rear axle.

Thanks
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Old 04-16-2005, 06:34 AM   #2
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We have a 39W and the posted CCC is 3900 lbs. That has to be adjusted for the washer/dryer that was installed at the dealer.

We've been very unhappy with the two dozen problems we've encountered with this coach and several remain to be corrected before the warranty expires at the end of May. We've had some thoughts about trading and if the coach could pass a "super inspection" we would consider a Journey/Meridian 39K and 39F as well has the Vectra/Horizon 40FD.

When I first saw the F and FD floor plans they totally turned me off - I was just not interested - the last floorplan in the world I'd want.

Well, use and time have a way of changing impressions. We were at Lazy Days last Sunday to browse after buying a few things at Camping World and to our surprise we found we really liked the FD. That made me think back to the 39F as well.

When I looked at the label in the 40FD it said CCC was between 1900 and 2000 lbs. My 39W has almost twice the CCC. The GVWR is 32,000 vs 27,910 for my 39W. I guess the four slides and slightly extra length take their toll. What also surprises me is the storage space for the FD vs the AD and KD - 136.4 vs 179.8 and 181.2. It is not obvious what would be consuming the storage space (the fourth slide?).

I'm starting to ask myself if most Vectras and Horizons could be running close to their weight limits, if not a bit over.

When I look at the Journey/Meridian for 2005 I see some strange numbers in the brochure (I have the Meridian version). Exterior storage for the 39F is shown as 79 cu ft and the 39K is 141.6. What could possible cause this difference. The 39F would be out of the question for us because of the much reduced storage area.

I'd appreciate it if forum members with the Journey/Meridian 39F and 39K could post the CCC that is posted in their coaches. Also, if you've had your coach weighed I'd be interested in the front and rear axle weights. We hope to get ours weighed on Tuesday. A friend with a 2004 39W gave me his weights on a chat forum recently (I erred and didn't write them down) and he had good cushions for both the front axle and rear axle.

Thanks
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Old 04-16-2005, 08:07 AM   #3
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dleslie125:
I'm starting to ask myself if most Vectras and Horizons could be running close to their weight limits, if not a bit over.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Don,

The CCC of the 40AD was probably one of the things that bothered me the most while in the shopping phase for a coach. The factory said the CCC of the AD model with every possible option is about 3,000 lbs. The weight stickers in the ADs that we looked at were around 2,700 lbs +-. The FD had a couple of hundred pounds less (the 4th slide.)

I chatted with a couple of 40AD owners and their actual "real-life" CCC seemed to be quite a bit higher than the sticker. Of course, you would need to exactly duplicate the conditions for the measured/calculated CCC, i.e., a body for every sleeping position, appropriate liquids filled, etc.

Now talking about the Vectra/Horizon 36RD - that's a horse of another color. The sticker CCC is only about 1200 lbs. DW loved the floorplan, but with the shorter wheelbase and low CCC, we didn't seriously consider that model.

Sorry you are having so much trouble with your current coach

We ordered a Horizon 40AD from Lazydays a month ago. Should be built in a couple of weeks.

Good luck - John
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Old 04-16-2005, 08:17 AM   #4
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John, I'm interested in your comment on the FD. The FD sitting at Lazy Days that we looked at clearly said 1900+ lbs for CCC. Frankly, I was very surprised with that number. Our 39W says 1776 but that is KILOGRAMS and thus is 3907 lbs. It would appear that the 4th slide weighs a lot more than I expected. I think the unit we examined also had a washer dryer.

The reduced CCC and storage area on the shorter wheelbase really rules them out for us.

I wish they'd increase the GVWR - but we all know they would then load it up with more options. But for once I'd like to see them avoid that pitfall.

I wish you luck with your 40AD - and it is a matter of luck. It seems that they either come out of the factory with few flaws or a ton of flaws. Ours was the latter.
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Old 04-16-2005, 12:35 PM   #5
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Don,

I think my memory is defective about the CCC for the FD model... I think I now remember the FD being substantially less than the AD like you mentioned and not just a couple of hundred of pounds. I didn't focus on it because we liked the AD floorplan better.

It is suprising that your coach weight sticker is in kilograms - maybe you inadvertently bought a Canadian model

I am a lurker on a Newmar forum (we were considering the Dutch Star or Mountain Aire) and one guy reported that his BRAND-NEW Dutch Star pusher came from the factory with the front axle overloaded! To their credit, Newmar replaced the 12,000 lb front axle with one of a higher capacity - problem solved but... WOW! How could that happen on a production unit?!?!

Maybe your unit was made in the summer - the factory has NO air conditioning and I'll bet you it is HOT HOT HOT on the production floor in the middle of summer. I'm glad mine is being made in the spring

Cheers - John
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Old 04-16-2005, 01:14 PM   #6
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Well, we bought a model made in Iowa and shipped to our dealer in Canada. All weights are metric on the label. Also, the speedo is metric with a little ring on the inside with imperial measure. The person designing the speedo didn't have a clue. The numbers on the dial are 5-15-25-35... etc. As a general rule all speed limits are in 10's - so I'm virtually never travelling at a speed limit with the needle on a number that is the limit. Thank goodness for my Garmin 2620 with nice BIG numbers on it.

That DSDP was reported on RV.net some time ago. I just wonder if Winnie would fix the problem the same way.

Our MH was built in January 2004 - and during delivery through slush, snow and salt reached a speed of 87 MPH. It was not powerwashed by the dealer as FTL requires and now we have our famous rustmobile. In addition, all four bolts that anchor the Onan are missing. Then, an interior wall is moving and the floor tiles are a mess (to put it mildly). The sliding door between galley and bath keeps coming off the track. I finally got frustrated last week and took it apart myself - ha, there is no stop and the track is not long enough so if it ever travels and extra inch or two too far, it just comes right out of the track. We are using a piece of 2 x 4 to keep it from travelling too far. And we have many more open problems yet. If it hadn't been built on first thing on a Monday morning or last thing on a Friday afternoon, it might have been a pretty good coach. If they ever get these things fixed it could still be.
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Old 04-16-2005, 01:58 PM   #7
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Our MH was built in January 2004 - and during delivery through slush, snow and salt reached a speed of 87 MPH. It was not powerwashed by the dealer as FTL requires and now we have our famous rustmobile. In addition, all four bolts that anchor the Onan are missing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh - Don, you are the owner of the 'famous' rustmobile with the 'floating genny.' I didn't make the connection!

Well, there goes my theory about your coach being made in August... Must have been a Monday or Friday build.

Actually my expectations of my new coach are to fix lots of little things that will invariably bug me, but won't be worth the effort to take in for service. I am fairly handy with tools and I have a reasonably complete woodworking & metal shop, so I'm ready.

Sorry Don - I didn't mean to divert your thread to non-issues of your original post. I'll be quiet now!

John
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Old 04-16-2005, 02:32 PM   #8
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Rustmobile with floating gennie and floating floor. I posted a picture of the floor tile so you can see why one has to watch his or her toes. Keep your fingers crossed that you don't find yourself with something like this. My dealer needs 8 weeks for an appointment. I see in Forbes that Lazy Days has the same problem. When I returned my DSL modem the other day, a woman who just got a Monaco coach told me that LD is planning to add a third shift to reduce the backlog. Given you need 8 weeks every time you want to book, and in my case they had the coach for 3 weeks, you are really limited to 4 possible appointments for warranty work over one year. Thank goodness CAT, FTL and Allison don't operate like in that manner.

http://www.leslie.39w.photos.us.com/c405490.html

http://www.leslie.39w.photos.us.com/c405498.html
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Old 04-17-2005, 05:12 PM   #9
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Can I ask a question? Why with all the problems you're having your looking to buy more from Win a bagle! Shop around look at other Motorhomes.
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Old 04-17-2005, 05:53 PM   #10
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Ed, note that I said "if the coach could pass a "super inspection" we would consider..."

I spent a lot of time in, under and around my MH today as we packed up to head north. There is nothing wrong with this MH that about a half dozen extra hours at the factory before it was shipped couldn't have solved - but I guess they are trying to ring out every dime they can and are not giving the assembly process the quality control checking needed.

If we were fairly certain the specific unit was not problem prone and the deal was reasonable I'd consider changing (given our eventual use was not anticipated when we bought the 39W, we would have bought a 39K that was sitting next to it). If they tell me that my 39W is a crock and give me a lowball trade value - then I'd never ever look at a Winnie product again. It is likely that the best possible trade deal would be at a Winnie dealer - not another make.

What we really have in the DP MH industry is a lot of manufacturers using the same components for a very short list - chassis, engines, transmission, fridge, generator, etc. There are some proprietary items such as Monaco chassis but not too many. Floor plans are also very similar with only a few variances. The issue boils down to how they are put together - and most of them aren't doing as good a job as we, as consumers, would like. The QC seems to be so hit and miss that some real disasters can be shipped from the factory as can some virtually flaw free coaches. That is why I am surprised that Winnie and others don't jump on the problems quickly and correct them. If they fix our problems we'd try W again. If they don't, then they gain a detractor for life - with a big web site (my son is an ISP) documenting all the problems with photos and emails so others can see what they could be getting.

Frankly, we hope they will fix the problems. It doesn't take rocket science. If our dealer fumbles the ball but W comes through, then we will do a W again, but with another dealer (an Itasca dealer, in fact, who frequents these forums and who, from what I can see, provides more attentive service and doesn't require 8 weeks for a warranty appointment).

So, that is my thinking.
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Old 04-17-2005, 05:58 PM   #11
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By the way, with respect to weight issues, this evening I talked to a fellow who has a 36 ft 2004 Journey. He recently went to Gaffney to have his first annual service work done. We are leaving for Gaffney in the morning. He recently had his MH on a scale fully loaded and gave me the numbers - he had a HUGE cushion. Another friend who has an identical coach gave me his weights and he had a very good cushion - over 1500 lbs. So, I'm hoping to get mine weighed this week.
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