We Need Your Advice Please

[market]

We live in Alaska and purchased a 2012 Itasca Meridian 34Y new and unseen in St. Augustine (Similar model to the Winnebago Journey 34Y). We selected this model because it is a diesel pusher with a shorter length of 35', has a king size (80" long) bed, has straight on tv viewing, has a propane oven, has a propane/electric refrigerator, has a table with chairs rather then a booth, has 7' interior ceiling, has both a couch and a recliner chair and is a brand represented by a dealer in Anchorage. Upon arrival in Florida we discovered other niceties such as the wood cabinets, corian countertops, thoughtful placement of switches, receptacles, lights and an amazing sound system. Since that time we have traveled 42,000 miles including back to Alaska once going up in February with 1500 miles of snow covered roads and -30 temps and have lived in it for four 5 month winter seasons in the lower '48 states as snowbirds staying in many, many different RV parks. We get 10 to 12 mpg towing a Honda CRV. When I mention a slightly longer coach, the wife says absolutely no! The shorter length allows us to park right at several relative's homes. If it had been any longer we would have had to disconnect the toad inorder to squeeze into the Harley Davidson factory parking lot in Kansas City. It has Power Gear slide mechanisms. If I can ever convince the wife to consider a longer coach, I will let you know

[Tom-NC]

Hi,

You stated you don't want a gas coach and I am curious why not.

I have a question for you and that is have you ever driven a Diesel motorhome before and what do you know about air brakes?

In my estimation, and I will probably get a lot of flack from DPers, the only thing they have over gas is an air ride plus it is a prestige thing.
Another factor is the cost of maintenance such as an oil change is over $200.00 and then what if you want to use it in cold weather, then there is the cost of diesel fuel (which is higher than gas), most campgrounds cannot fit a 40 footer with a tow vehicle.

I have a 35 foot gas motorhome and can maintain it myself, climb hills better than a lot of diesels, gas is cheaper than diesel and the floor plans are sometimes better than diesels.

Before you buy check them out. Good Luck!

[staggerlee]

If a gasser was stronger than a oil burner, they would be in the big rigs. I have had a class A gasser, and have had a C Class diesel M.H.
There is no comparison in torque. My pickup is even diesel.
Yes it does cost more for fuel, and air filter is much higher, but you don't need to change as often. Mine holds 5.5 gallons of oil too.
But you have to pay to have the power.
Don't understand the cold weather thing. But it can be used in cold weather just like a gasser. And I can expect to get at least a half million miles on the engine.
If you take it to a dealership, they will charge an arm and leg for work. I have a nephew that will do my work for me.
I got what I want, do you have what you want?
Just asking, I never look down on what anyone has. Not even tent campers. I have been there too, when we were younger.
I just figure people just have what they want to have is all.
Lee

[Tom-NC]

Thank you StaggerLee for your reply and that is what I expected and you haven't hurt my feelings.

I know I can climb better than a diesel As I have already done it. As far as cold weather I mean real cold weather that diesel gels and you have to put an additive in it or be able to plug in a block heater.

You answered me in your reply but didn't give to people who are going from camping in a tent to a diesel pusher. It's like being a baby and crawling to running a 5K. Be Honest and tell then like it is. Tell them about air brakes or how to use a jake brake or how to stop a 27-30K RV towing car. We all have to start someplace and work our way up.

I am not trying to argue with anyone but just trying to give them some advice that you have to crawl before you walk.

Thanks for reading this.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Tom-NC

Hi,

You stated you don't want a gas coach and I am curious why not.

I have a question for you and that is have you ever driven a Diesel motorhome before and what do you know about air brakes?

In my estimation, and I will probably get a lot of flack from DPers, the only thing they have over gas is an air ride plus it is a prestige thing.
Another factor is the cost of maintenance such as an oil change is over $200.00 and then what if you want to use it in cold weather, then there is the cost of diesel fuel (which is higher than gas), most campgrounds cannot fit a 40 footer with a tow vehicle.

I have a 35 foot gas motorhome and can maintain it myself, climb hills better than a lot of diesels, gas is cheaper than diesel and the floor plans are sometimes better than diesels.

Before you buy check them out. Good Luck!

I do agree with you on some of your points. A gasser has a place in RVing. For full-timers, the dp is a better choice if doing long and frequent halls (imo). Ride and drive-ability tend to be better. With the engine in the rear, cab noise is reduced. I don't understand the maintenance issues. I change oil every 20k or so. Have it tested at Blackstone Laboratories every year. If it is good I keep on going. I am using Royal Purple.

Pulling power: I was in the Grand Tetons National Forest with my rig. Very steep grades. We had little problems. The cruse did not drop out, as I thought it would, when we went over the steepest grades, 12% if I recall correctly. The speed limit was 25mph and that is what we stayed at all the way up!

Air: The air ride is great. I use the air from the coach to break the CR-V with Air Force One. Works fantastic. Pads and shoes are still a maintenance issue as with a gasser.

Spark plugs: none

Fuel cost is a bit higher but is often competitive to gas if gotten at a local station. The trucker fuel stops tend to gaff the public. The truckers often get deep discounts through company contracts. We fuel at Costco when we can.

Length is an issue for any rig when using public parks and many older private parks. For us this has been a problem for vacationing at times. There is enough to see in this great land that it has never been a real concern. We usually find a place to stay, even an abandoned parking lot to dry dock for a night or two.

About the parks... I feel that the snob parks are in error. Why should a well maintained rig be rejected because of age?

As volunteers we don't need bells and whistles for overnighting. Walmart, Flying J, Pilot... all work well. In Roswell, NM there were 23 rigs in the Walmart parking lot when we got up in the morning.

Again, my opinion. Gassers are great young family or older snowbird choices. Short drives or long stays. No need for great power and luxury. One is camping and the other is simply moving there stuff to a warmer location for the winter. Both are finding places to play and fellowship in most cases. That is why the RV industry offers so many choices. Pop-ups, 5ivers, tag-a-longs, class A, B, C... All sorts of RV configurations.

Happy trails to all and to all a great time!

[CJBROWN]

Originally Posted by LizandBruce

Thank you all for your comments and advice.

Hi Journey Cat - Thanks for offer to sell your unit. We are looking for something a bit newer. Good Luck

I wouldn't discount a 2004 to 2008 year range - you get nothing more in the newer units.
Condition is WAY more important than year.

While the Journey/Meridian (Itasca version) are a great coach, I would encourange you to also look at Adventurer, and in later years Sightseer/Sunnova - they have everything you find in the diesel versions except the heavier chassis and diesel powerplant. And while the DP does ride nicer you pay a huge premium for it. For many it simply doesn't add up.

If you're going to LIVE in it then yeah, I would say for sure get a DP. If you're a extended trip and weekender/vacationer then the gas versions can make a lot of sense.

Not changing your oil in a diesel every year is a really bad idea - and it's expensive. And if you don't maintain them properly they are beyond ridiculous expensive to fix.

Some good friends of ours decided to move up from a 20' TT to a DP - they got an older Country Coach - super nice unit without slides, got it for about $30K. When the turbo went out on the cummins it ran them about ten grand by the time it got all sorted out. And they have to pay to store it whereas the trailer would sit in their driveway. So they have sold it and gone back to the trailer - weekender/vacationers.

My sis and BIL and years ago my folks all had DP's - and spent stupid amounts of money buying and selling them. My guess is sis lost about two hundred grand in depreciation buying and selling as they moved up, then he died and she got out completely. They're made of money so it doesn't matter, but for some that would be devastating. At least one of each of their rigs over the years were nothing but trouble - so don't buy someone else's giant headache. Do research on whatever model you land on as you narrow down your choices.

Go drive them both before you pick one. The high end gas coaches have the same features and functions, tankage, storage, etc. And cost way less - so don't discount them 'till you check them all out.

Oh yeah, and also consider Tiffin and Newmar - both are premium brands as good or better than Winnebago - especially the Newmars - they build a really nice unit. We've been eyeballing the Ventana LE and Tiffin Allegro Red for years. Still hanging onto our Winnebago gas for now - it's really painless and flawless, still just like new after all these years!

[Tom-NC]

Hi,

Listen to the Browns if you don't believe me.. I cannot see you people who started this piece go from a tent to a Diesel Pusher. At least start with a used gas job and then learn about diesels, they are expensive to buy and maintain and you will never get your money back.

As for the mention about spark plugs they don't have to be changed for 100k miles but what about glo plugs on the diesel they crap out often enough.

My last statement on this thread will be to go buy a 33 foot gas unit used and try it before you do anything in fact look at a 35 footer as amenities are better on 35 footer.

That's all I will say, Enjoy and have a Happy New Year

[Jim_HiTek]

Diesels in RV's seldom had glow plugs before the early 90's. They had a block heater sometimes but they just used compression in most even in the early days because back then a RV was a summer vehicle.

After the early '90's don't think any diesel engine did except an outlier Dodge truck or Mercedes or something. No RVs though. Except maybe the Mercedes.

Compression does the job along with precision fuel injectors and very high pressure lift pumps for the fuel.

Or something like that. It's all a big mystery.

I'm a full timer so started with diesel and prefer it because of the heavy chassis and strong, yet simple, engine.

[staggerlee]

Originally Posted by Tom-NC

Thank you StaggerLee for your reply and that is what I expected and you haven't hurt my feelings.

I know I can climb better than a diesel As I have already done it. As far as cold weather I mean real cold weather that diesel gels and you have to put an additive in it or be able to plug in a block heater.

You answered me in your reply but didn't give to people who are going from camping in a tent to a diesel pusher. It's like being a baby and crawling to running a 5K. Be Honest and tell then like it is. Tell them about air brakes or how to use a jake brake or how to stop a 27-30K RV towing car. We all have to start someplace and work our way up.

I am not trying to argue with anyone but just trying to give them some advice that you have to crawl before you walk.

Thanks for reading this.

Glad to hear your feelings didn't get hurt.
I hope you have a happy new year too.
I do not understand the problem with air brakes. If you lost all air pressure,
your brakes would lock up, you wouldn't lose your brakes.
As far as fuel,they use a different blend of diesel. You can add a can of anti gel if you plan to go to Alaska in the winter.
There are 2 large start batteries, and we also have 3 large house batteries. If you have a start problem, not a (gel problem), just push a button, and you will have 5 batteries to start with.

There are different Jake Brakes, they work in different ways. Ours works off the exhaust. you flip a switch, and when you apply the brake pedal, the Jake kicks in, to aid the brake pads so they won't over heat. We also have an SMI Air Force One system, that applies the brakes to a towed vehicle in proportion to that applied to the M.H. even though I believe the brakes on the Freight-liner chassis are large enough to do the stopping. But its the Law in all the lower 48, except for Mo.

And about the honest remark, I am probably the most honest person you have never met. No offense to others you haven't met.

I am curious how you out pulled a diesel rig though.
I've have had both.
And at over 70 years old, do have some experience.
Have a nice day.
Lee

[jerichorick]

This is a great and respect filled conversation.

This is my third coach. If I had known better I would have known better I would have fixed my first coach instead of trading in for an albatross of a rig that I finally had to trade for this Meridian if I still wanted to volunteer. Was breaking down all the time,

In ~'05, the recession, we can remember rv manufactures of all sorts going under. The survivors did so by cutting fluff. Included in that was quality control. So, as we read through the different other manufacture forums, many of the owners of the new rigs are struggling with issues that were not of a great concern before the recession.

As far as thinking of any RV as an investment goes? That is a stretch. We buy them as we would expensive toys or tools. They don't often appreciate unless they become a collectors item. Because of that I NEVER buy a new RV.

My rule of thumb is reliability, comfort and wants. This last rig needed to have a washer and dryer, residential refrigerator and a tv we could easily view. Freightliner, DP, Cummins, Alison are all my must halves.

Winnebago industries once was one of the leaders for QC and service. Now they are simply another RV manufacturer. The QC for this coach is a good example. Hardware problems, electrical issues, jacks, slides... All have had problems. Service at the factory is now pretty bad. In the years we have gone we have seen the deterioration of the QC of the coaches and of the repairs to correct NEW coach issues, This is not unique to Winnebago.

My point here is to encourage anyone buying to chose a functional for them floor plan and accessories. Read the pros and cons of each model on the appropriate forum. You WILL have some sort of problem over time. A house rattling down the highways and by-ways is going to have problems, gas or diesel.

Happy New year and safe, fun travels.

[Tom-NC]

Hi

This will be my last post on this subject.

It seems you all are against me and telling what is good about a diesel but not addressing the original question.

Do all you DP owners recommend this couple go from a tent to a 40' DP? I'm sure most of you started with a gas unit probably around 24-30' and then progressed to a DP.

I would recommend they start with a gas unit and then when they get some experience go for a DP if they so desire.

As far as brakes locking up when you run out of air, then why do they have in the mountains run away lanes which are made of sand.

I am getting tired of arguing, Have a Happy New Year!

[RickyR]

Not that it matters now, but YES.. We did go from a tent in the back of my dually to a 2001 36' Journey. Was perfect until we decided we wanted something newer, then got the 2009 34Y (which is now for sale). I'd never buy a gas powered RV (sorry to the gas people reading this). Quiet, reliable, powerful, smooth ride and has better resale value when you decide on something different.
As for the brakes, there are ping tanks that allow for lots of stops when the air goes out. You will get a warning way before your air runs out, major safety factor.
The sand mountains are also there for drivers that ride their brakes and get too hot. Another reason for a DP is the engine braking on hills...
Good luck in your search..
Ricky

[Jim_HiTek]

I went from a two man tent to a 35' Class A diesel after years of backpacking. Scary, but if you keep your wits about you, and take the time to learn from your elders, it's doable. Even for someone like me who had NEVER driven anything bigger than a giant slow moving fork lift in a warehouse.

Main reason I went with a Class A was that I could fit practically everything I wanted to save from my old life (sold my house - big yard sale), and didn't have to worry about backing up a trailer. Something else I'd never had much successful experience with. Just seemed easier to deal with a big bus than a trailer. Both on the road and backing up at a RV park. Spent nearly a year following big buses and trucks around town and on the road watching how they operated, especially during turns in towns.

Went with a diesel because, again, spent a year lurking on various RV'ing web sites, blogs, and forums and reading the stories. Yeah, after that, had a good idea that diesels would be expensive, but more reliable than a gasser. Most of those opting for a gasser seemed to think they could, and would want to work on their own rigs. I went into RV'ing with the thought that I'd just do what I could, and leave the rest to experts. Turned out that there is soooooo much I was able to do myself (pretty much a handyman) that I saved thousands (kept spreadsheets on every job I did, or shops did on the rig).

Another reason I went with diesel was because so many complained about not being able to talk to the passenger(s) while driving a gasser much of the time. I'm hard of hearing, so that was also a factor. Then the chassis reliability seemed better with the diesel rigs, the fuel economy was marginally better in most cases, the house was generally built stronger, and on and on.

So, I chose diesel. My second Class A is a '02 Journey diesel pusher with two slides. First one was a diesel Bounder. And after nearly 14 years of full timing, still happy with the decision to go with diesel. Both were and are excellent rigs but the Journey is by far much more comfortable for a full timer.

I budget $120/month for repairs, maintenance, and optional goodies. So around $1500/year is good to have in the bank, 5 years worth as a backup so a $7500 contingency fund. I keep it in a separate account, only pull it out for repairs. (Yes, I'm aware a blown engine would cost $12,000 or so but I've got a leg up on it with the fund if that ever happens).

The OP will undoubtedly make a measured decision based on his/her own experiences and criterion, and I'd bet s/he will take our various opinions the way they're offered, as suggestions.

[staggerlee]

Glad to hear it.
Lee

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Tom-NC

Hi

This will be my last post on this subject.

It seems you all are against me and telling what is good about a diesel but not addressing the original question.

Do all you DP owners recommend this couple go from a tent to a 40' DP? I'm sure most of you started with a gas unit probably around 24-30' and then progressed to a DP.

I would recommend they start with a gas unit and then when they get some experience go for a DP if they so desire.

As far as brakes locking up when you run out of air, then why do they have in the mountains run away lanes which are made of sand.

I am getting tired of arguing, Have a Happy New Year!

Simple answer. I did. Why not them? I have driven both and a dp handles much better. Living space is by choice. I don't like Cat or Ford.

Any heavy vehicle can loose breaking. Runaway ramps have been around for a very long time. Big rigs wear out in a shorter time than RVs.

DP's are safer and easier to handle in the wind, IMO, by chassis design. Ride comfort is hard to compare but gasser chassis can be modified for better control and comfort for the right money.

Are you looking for an answer in your arguing or for support of your position?

[Rick FLA]

Originally Posted by LizandBruce

My lovely wife and I just retired and ready to stop camping in our two person tent. We are looking at 34 foot Journeys from 2009 or 2010. Nice size with good amenities and like the diesel pusher. Not interested in a gas coach.

Any of you nice folks who have owned one - please tell us if this is the right direction or should we be looking at other coaches?

Thanks very much
Liz and Bruce

Here is the best advice I got when looking around to buy a RV .
Buy your second one first , save your self thousands

[CJBROWN]

So much FUD here...a bunch of DP fanboys. LOL

1. DP isn't cheap to run. A budget of $120 a month for maintenance is about ten times what a gas motor is.
2. The engine is in the back but it's still noisy. The claim of noise in the front with a gas engine is only true when the fan clutch kicks in, so climbing in hot weather. And especially for the Ford V10. Not sure I would buy one of those, although we had one back in the early 2000's. It wasn't noisy at all, and our GM 8.1 is very quiet.
3. They only have more cargo room if the coach is bigger - this is not a function of gas vs diesel. Weight carrying yes, but only with a higher GVW chassis. Some DP's are built to the max just like some of the gas - I have a 3800lb CCC in a 32' unit.
4. Diesel motor is not more reliable. More long-lived sure, but no one seems to drive a RV millions of miles. If you do then you need a diesel!
5. Diesel house or coach is virtually the same in a given brand - if they make a sister coach in gas. Newmar Ventana vs Canyon Star is a good example, as is Winnebago Journey vs Adventurer. A high-end DP is of course built to a higher standard - this as general claim is not really applicable.
6. A blown diesel is a lot more than $12K. Perhaps for a used swap or a minor rebuild. The biggest enemy of DP longevity is lack of use, lack of proper maintenance.


And no one is questioning anyone's honesty or integrity - these are all OPINIONS based on experience. If a DP owner never had a high-end gas rig then they can't compare - for the same reason no experience with DP's they can't compare either. OP is looking for opinions and that's what they got. Hope it helps!

I would encourage OP to rent a few times and get a taste of what it's about. Choosing a coach that fits is really about projecting needs/wants, and that's virtually impossible to do with no experience.

[Tom-NC]

Chris Brown,

Could not have said it better myself, thank you.

I just want to add two things I found out lately and that is air brakes on motorhome do not lock up when they are out of air that only happens on trailers of 18 wheelers. and turbos cost $2500.00

Hope everyone is safe with all this weather.

[cascadeflyer]

Well this was fun!

I saw a few very very nice vintage DPs that I really wanted to buy, but in our price range-- ~10k -- I knew that was a big mistake.

So we started small. Very small. We have a 22 foot 1987 Sunflyer, only 3 days old, to us.

I still have my eyes on old Foretravels, though. They're beautiful. Anyway, we shall learn what works for us and what doesn't work for us with regard to floor plans, size and features. Then, we will make our next purchase based on a few years of experience.

Or, maybe we'll keep our new little Scooby Doo Sunflyer.

[Cooperhawk]

Originally Posted by Tom-NC

Chris Brown,

Could not have said it better myself, thank you.

I just want to add two things I found out lately and that is air brakes on motorhome do not lock up when they are out of air that only happens on trailers of 18 wheelers. and turbos cost $2500.00

Hope everyone is safe with all this weather.

The driver axle locks up on ours when the air runs low. Yours must be different.