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Old 09-20-2021, 02:56 PM   #441
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricolor View Post
W=VA
The voltage drop is partly compensated by a higher current going through the lamp to maintain the power output.

For this simple reason, don't run your A/C where the shore voltage is low or you may overheat and damage the compressor.

I hope this help
This is partly very familiar to me as I have worked Dc power and fuses a lot when voltage gets low, current goes high on lots of equipment.
After storms when electrical power has been off and the battery backup supply has gone way down, the first thing we have to do before restarting any equipment that has failed is pull the power fuses, get the batteries back up close to normal and THEN add the fuses, if not the fuses blow too quick to help!

But from looking at headlights, I have never found that to be true as they do not have a set amount of power used but what I see on light bulbs working on DC is that they just get much dimmer as the batteries go dead. Thinking of flashlights and how we can do a quick check of car batteries by turning on the headlights and trying to honk the horn?
Most of us who used flashlights before LED are familiar with trying to see in the dark as the bulb gets dimmer but I have not noticed the bulbs burning out, so still had questions on low voltage burning out headlights?

But there may be a bit of language disconnect when the poster speaks of changing the motor and I was thinking motor only not the whole unit?
What my thoughts run to was that if the motor is making a clacking sound, my guess was that it was a gear issue more than the actual motor failing, if you follow that idea. Motors that still run but don't move the step sounded more like a gear/linkage problem more than an actual motor itself failing.

It then may be a bit of missing language when the repair folks say it needs a new motor?? If the gears and motor are all replaced as one unit, they may be saying motor failed when it is actually gears failed and that may be something that involves the steps not moving as they should and causing the gears to fail? Or some point in the controls not shutting the motor off at the end of it's travel as should happen?

Sometimes this communications stuff is harder than expected if we don't pin things down really precisely!
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Old 09-20-2021, 08:00 PM   #442
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Yes it is the gears that fail. The motor is OK. The problem is you can not buy the gears separately. Now, why do these gears fail? I know I have replaced five of these units. I have emailed the step company, but they are clueless. No service place can help, they just blame the motor unit and replace them. These units are expensive in Canada. Service centres are hours away.
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Old 09-20-2021, 08:01 PM   #443
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I forgot to mention, the motorhome is connected to shore power at all times in our Quonset building.
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Old 09-21-2021, 06:29 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by rottenkid View Post
Yes it is the gears that fail. The motor is OK. The problem is you can not buy the gears separately. Now, why do these gears fail? I know I have replaced five of these units. I have emailed the step company, but they are clueless. No service place can help, they just blame the motor unit and replace them. These units are expensive in Canada. Service centres are hours away.
Hum... Could it be caused by a partly seized or missaligned step mechanism?
Have you tried pressure cleaning the joints and then greasing them with silicone, graphite or lithium grease?

I know it is time to grease the joints when the steps no longer extand or retract freely... salty roads don't help!
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Old 09-21-2021, 06:03 PM   #445
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They move freely and are always cleaned an sprayed with silicone spray.
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Old 01-06-2023, 11:00 AM   #446
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We had issues with our step "clacking". Replaced with an after market and it worked fine again...for about 12 cycles of extending and retracting. Then back to clacking. Checked voltages, checked grounds all the usual things. Got a warranty replacement and immediately it was failing on extending. Talked with Lippert and they said maybe controller. So got a new Lippert controller which did NOT make any difference. Then also got a Lippert OEM motor assy. That also did NOT make any difference. What I finally did was design a secondary controller that uses a sealed reed switch to detect when the steps are out and locked. Then my controller uses a high current relay to remove power from the step motor. The Lippert controller has a timeout of around 6 seconds before it removes power. It relies on the stall current of the motor but in my case it was never getting enough stall current. When the power is removed that allows my secondary controller to power down releasing the relay and it is ready for the next extend cycle. This has been working flawlessly for over a year now and several thousand miles of rough roads. It's all plug connected so worst case I can remove my controller from the picture if needed.
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Old 01-07-2023, 04:25 AM   #447
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Do you have pictures or diagrams for solving this step issue?
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Old 01-07-2023, 05:36 AM   #448
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I've attached some photos. A couple are a bit out of focus.

These show:
  • The prototype mounting brackets for the sensor that I 3D printed
  • The sensor and magnet installed on the steps and the body panel of the RV.
  • The PCB being tested on the bench.
  • The PCB mounted in the box with the relay attached and the plugs.
  • The box installed in the battery compartment. The insulation is there to minimize any noise from the cables hitting the side of the box. Probably not needed but I haven't removed the insulation yet to test.

I also milled a bracket out of aluminum, but the 3D printed one is holding up quite well, so there is likely no need to use a metal one.

I'm still kicking around the idea of putting together a kit with detailed instructions on how to install. The challenge is that it is hard to know how much variance there is in the spacing between the step arm and the body of a given RV, so it may not be practical to have a common bracket, and that might be something that each owner would need to fabricate.

The principle is pretty simple. Use a limit switch to detect when the step is fully extended and locked.

The controller is powered from the motor power lead that is +12V when extending the step. The relay is inserted in the motor lead after the +12V to my controller using the normally closed contacts.
When the sensor detects the step is fully extended the relay is energized which opens the circuit removing +12 to the motor while leaving my controller powered.
When the Lipper controller times out it removes power from the motor circuit which turns off my controller. The relay drops out which will then apply power to the motor on the next cycle.
When the step retracts the previous +12V motor lead is not ground, so my controller is not powered up and the step retracts normally.

This solution only works with the case where the step has an issue on extension. In all the motor assemblies I tried that was where I had the problem. I have some theories on why it is only on extension and that is based on tearing down the motor and gear assys.

I also have a design that can work with both extension and retraction but I haven't tested that yet.

Based on discussions with Lippert support, and assuming they were correct, the issue appears to be that they have a specific stall current that they are looking for that they use to determine when the step is extended or retracted. In typical automotive window applications the controller is looking for an increase in current draw from normal and not a specific threshold. Because of tolerances and the way the plastic gear is formed when the steps extend it is possible for the gear to skip so the motor never hits the specific threshold current.

The approach I took resolves the issue while leaving the existing controller intact. And since everything is plug in it can be easily removed if needed.
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Old 01-08-2023, 07:07 AM   #449
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Probably a simple item to build, but I am not an electrical technician.
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Old 01-08-2023, 07:56 AM   #450
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The biggest thing was determining what might be going on with the steps, and I think it comes down to tolerances, which is why some people change a motor assy out and don't have trouble while others may have to go through 4 or more.

Our local RV shop which is excellent says they often go though up to 4 or 5 motors to find one that doesn't chatter. And even then some people have motors that last for 5 years and others only last for a year.

When talking with Lippert and they were telling me how their controller attempts to detect when the steps are out that was when the light bulb went off.

I was initially going to use a micro controller as the heart of the design, but then thought about it and realized I could design a very simple circuit to control the relay.

I decided to lay out a small Printed Circuit Board and use that, plus I wanted to test milling a PCB here at home.

I then located the connectors that Lippert used for the motor. They are waterproof automotive connectors. Made a sort cable that plugs into the motor line, and determined which lead was +12V when the motor was extending and tapped into that for +12V to power my controller. The negative of my controller connects to chassis ground.

Another benefit of using an actual limit switch is that the motor isn't trying to work against the plastic gear when the step is extending. That reduces the wear on the plastic gear, which is a common failure where the teeth get chewed up over time.

If I don't decide to offer a kit of parts, with instructions, I'll post the schematic.
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