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Old 09-28-2017, 04:04 PM   #1
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Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Las Vegas NV
Posts: 45
Smile Upgrading the electrical system.

Dear reader,

First, I have a 2000 Winnebago Ultimate advantage. I am new to the RV world. I want to do some upgrades to my electrical system and I am looking for some advice or a debate on how to best fix this up. Back in July I broke my Inverter/charge control system. It is a Xantrex 81201012 Inverter. I found the same inverter on Amazon for about a 1000.00. What broke is the ability to charge my batteries. The inverter will send power to all the electric outlets, but when the generator runs now only the AC Microwave and fridge work. None of the other outlets are working with the generator running. I do have shore power when connected.

I also am experiencing electrical gremlins that discharge my batteries. I want to add some solar to offset the discharge. My two chassis batteries last about 3 weeks before they die. I have yet to figure out how long I have on the 3 coach batteries.

Here is what I ultimately would like to do. Add a 100-watt solar panel to the chassis battery bank and a battery shut off switch. Add at least 200 watts of Solar, but upgradeable for the House batteries. The coach already has a battery disconnect switch for the house batteries. A new charge controller to tie everything together.

How does this sound? Should I stay with the Xantrex 81201012 Inverter? Or upgrade to a pure sine wave inverter by another brand?

Thanks,
Bill
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Old 09-29-2017, 07:25 AM   #2
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This is really a general forum issue, more than a Winnebago unique problem. This kind of problem comes up regularly in general forums, such as IRV2.com.

Anyways I will try to summarize what I think you are having problems with, along with questions.

-- First, you have a 2000 watt modified sine wave (MSM) inverter with a 100amp charger.
-- Second, There are 2 different battery problems. The chassis battery (engine starting) and house batteries. Is that correct?
-- Chassis batteries, probably need to be kept charged by a trickle charger. I know my gas Winne chassis batteries will die in 3-4 weeks if not kept charged. Chassis batteries many if not most time are not kept charged by shore power.
-- House batteries-- What did you do to break the inverter/charger?? What makes you think it needs to be replaced.
– You wrote that the inverter will not charge the batteries, I am assuming your are referring to the house batteries. Did you take a volt meter and measure the charge voltage from the inverter? Or how did you determine the inverter is not charging the batteries?


Quote:
when the generator runs now only the AC Microwave and fridge work. None of the other outlets are working with the generator running. I do have shore power when connected.
Did you plug into every outlet, or just some outlets? With 50amp service usually some outlets are on one leg of the 50amp service and the others are on the second 50amp leg. Did you check all the the circuit breakers on the AC power center. Also there should be 2 circuit breakers on the generator, one of them could be tripped.
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Old 09-29-2017, 09:42 AM   #3
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Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Apple Valley, MN
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Your chassis batteries are not being charged when plugged in the same as my 2005 Journey was orginally. Sometime in 2006 Winnebago started install Trik-L-Start on the higher end models. I have installed it on mine and now the chassis batteries get maintained by the house batteries. So if your house batteries are charged so will your chassis. Very inexpensive item and easy to install.
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Old 09-29-2017, 12:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al1florida View Post
This is really a general forum issue, more than a Winnebago unique problem. This kind of problem comes up regularly in general forums, such as IRV2.com.

Anyways I will try to summarize what I think you are having problems with, along with questions.

-- First, you have a 2000 watt modified sine wave (MSM) inverter with a 100amp charger.
-- Second, There are 2 different battery problems. The chassis battery (engine starting) and house batteries. Is that correct?
-- Chassis batteries, probably need to be kept charged by a trickle charger. I know my gas Winne chassis batteries will die in 3-4 weeks if not kept charged. Chassis batteries many if not most time are not kept charged by shore power.
-- House batteries-- What did you do to break the inverter/charger?? What makes you think it needs to be replaced.
– You wrote that the inverter will not charge the batteries, I am assuming your are referring to the house batteries. Did you take a volt meter and measure the charge voltage from the inverter? Or how did you determine the inverter is not charging the batteries?


Did you plug into every outlet, or just some outlets? With 50amp service usually some outlets are on one leg of the 50amp service and the others are on the second 50amp leg. Did you check all the the circuit breakers on the AC power center. Also there should be 2 circuit breakers on the generator, one of them could be tripped.
Thank you for the reply. Yes this is what I have and Yes I am having two different battery problems. The Chassis batteries I would like to fix with a solar panel connected to the chassis battery system only. I feel this would maintain the charge. I will look into Trik-L-Start as well. Thanks for the idea neub.

What I did to the inverter/charger. took a trip up to Montana, I plugged into my uncles 30 AMP power and something happened to the charge controller/inverter. This is my mistake. My surge protector said that the circuit was an open neutral, but I was tired from the drive and plugged in anyways. I immediately unplugged when nothing worked. The next day I discovered the batteries were getting low so I fired up the generator to let the batteries charge. After about 5 hours of running the generator I discovered the batteries were not charging and I did not have electricity to a few outlets in the RV. I admit I did not check every one. We had power at the ac fridge and Microwave. I took a look at the circuit breakers in the back bedroom and the only one that was tripped was the one marked inverter/charger. When I turned this back on with the generator running sparks flew from the charge controller/inverter. I flipped this switch to off, it did not flip itself. and the sparks stopped. I turned off the generator. I can get power to the outlets using the inverter, but the charger is not charging the house batteries. I did not use a multimeter on the house batteries when the generator was running. I could not get the charge light to come on in the controller and this is how I determined that batteries are not getting charged.

My new Todo list:
Check every outlet.
Check circuit breakers on generator.
Verify charger is not charging with multimeter, measure voltage with nothing running. Measure voltage with generator running. Measure voltage when plugged into shore power.

Thank you.
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Old 09-29-2017, 06:35 PM   #5
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Sounds like the inverter/charger is toast. Smoke & sparks are not good.

The power outlets fed by the inverter most always go through the inverter both when from battery and when from shore/gen power. So probably those outlets that are not working are fed from the inverter.

About your fridge. Is it a propane/elect or residential (120V AC only)? If gas/elect the 120V outlet to power the fridge normally is not fed from the inverter which would account for it working on AC.

About your uncles 30amp outlet you plugged into. Do you know for a fact that this outlet was installed for an RV? If not, it is probably a 30amp outlet for a clothes dryer or other household appliance, and is a 240 volt outlet. Note, even if the outlet was installed by an electrician, many times they are not aware that a RV 30amp outlet is 120V only and wired differently from the normal 30amp 240V house outlet. Also a 3 prong 30amp outlet for a clothes dryer, does not have a neutral wire. Just two 120V wires and the ground return wire. That could account for your surge protector showing an open neutral.


It is good that you have a surge protector which detects an open neutral. When you plug in to a RV 50amp outlet which has an open neutral, you expose your RV to having 240V going to devices which only operate on 120V.


Going back to your OP, “should you go to a PSW inverter or buy another MSW inverter. There are a number of newer appliances like some coffee pots, some electric blankets and others I have not paid much attention to, which either don’t work or will be damaged by Modified Sine Wave inverters.


A 2000watt PSW inverter is about $600-$800 more than the same model you have in the RV now. Personally I would spend the extra $$ for the PSW, if you plan on using the RV quite a bit.
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