Strange Electrical Issue - Kills Engine!

[NatureNut]

A now a word from our sponsor - "Winnebago? Uh oh!"
Trying to fix my Dad's 2007 Journey 36G. This unit is a nightmare all around. They hadn't used it since 2018, and it has been sitting in the drive. Most of the time not plugged in, and he forgot to place the Chassis Battery switch to the "Off" position, hence dead batteries all around. After spending a few hundred bucks on batteries to get it running again - I decided it could use some TLC, so I changed the engine oil and filter, replaced the 'corroding' trans filter with a new one and added some trans oil (very expensive) to make up for the oil lost taking off the filter only (I didn't pull the internal parts, only the external filter). Replaced the main fuel filter (he keeps telling me there is another by the rear axle as well but that was changed not long before they last inspected and used it). Once I did all this.. I got it started and had the Cummins diesel purring like a kitten! All good, right? No. I took a short break from all this work, and while I was away he calls and says 'it won't start now'. I'm devastated. Started researching and pulling things apart. I confirmed all breakers/fuses but didn't check any relays yet. Meanwhile, I read that it could be a bad connection at the solenoid/starter, or maybe (gulp!) a bad ECU/TCU. Oh please say it ain't so! This morning, after not having been over to check it out for a few months (bad weather, work, etc) I stopped by. I should point out that I had previously confirmed that the transmission control panel (driver's left), which I believe is a WTEC3 - was lit up, so no loss of lights at the panel, just a "NO START" scenario (do not hear 'starter' from the cab - no noises when attempting to crank).
Well - this morning - I played with the buttons on the controller (does anyone know what the little red light means or what's the difference between "N" and "NN"?). Presto! It started right up, not even a warm up needed (it was fairly warm outside this morning anyway).
So - now I got it running (although confused as to what the problem was). I decided to give it a walk around for 'inspection' readiness. Turned on the headlights and walked the outside of the coach. All lamps lit, headlights on (they suck but they're on - anyone else realize they pilfered these from a GM Pontiac body??) and all good. Went back to the cab and attempted to engage the right turn signal. - BOOOM! engine goes dead just like that. Lights still on, blinker flashing (inside anyway). Turned off lights and turn signal. Turned off ignition key. Restarted the Journey. Started right up!! That was good news, I suppose. Tried to repeat -- this time LEFT turn signal - SAME ISSUE. Engine stops right away. Can restart no problem if lights/turn signal off.
I found an OLD online post similar to this story - but the OP never replies back if the issue is resolved.
Anyone out there have any suggestions? These units have miles of wiring, multiple relays, and frankly no help from Winnie when it comes to these issues. They point you back to Freightliner faster that you can whistle dixie. It is very frustrating in that these issues did not exist prior to their last trip and wondering if this is due to some critter getting inside somewhere chewing up wires - and if so how to diagnose this disaster.
For what it's worth, I intend to clean up all ground connections (needs it anyway) and I am repairing the Kwikee step controller (it broke - and you can't repair 'em yourself). This unit has only 39K miles on the engine/trans - which are in great shape. There are issues with window seals, the roof (#1 Journey/Winnie issue in the world), headliner coming down (due to sitting in the heat) and I'm wondering if it's worth the effort. Did I mention I can't stand those stupid Pontiac headlights and wondering if they have LED replacements available that might fit the space?
If I can get it to pass inspection - and keep it running - I might see about completing the rest of the work.. or happy to sell it to someone who has the time and wants to make the effort. Shame to get rid of this unit with only 39K on it.
Last question - Winnie says they will replace the entire roof for 12K but you gotta take to their shop. Does this sound like a worthwhile endeavor?
This was a long post - but if you got this far, THANKS!

[Morich]

I'll throw in some thoughts and let you decide if it fits or not?
One is that things that are not used go downhill much quicker than when we use them as we do tend to fix the small points as we go along but not if we are not using it.
So an RV that has low miles but is still nearing 20 years old and not driven in five is going to be in bad shape.
The roof of an RV has to have persistent, consistent attention or they go bad. Whether it is bad enough to require total replacement, depends on what the sturcture is like. If it is wood and rooted, that puts it out of real value but if it is metal framing and just leaking, peeling the ceiling off after caulking and sealing the outside is doable---but it takes drive! Lots of drive! And that drive is often not seen in the current world, so that puts it way down on resale!

Many folks are finding it is just too easy to get money in easier ways, so they never start!

So I might suggest doing things in this order? Find out about the roof, if it is a lost cause, no reason to fix the starting issue!
But then you will need to define the starting/ running part better. When it cuts off when you move the turn signal, is that signal also connected to a switch inside the steering column and it is broken. That might explace why they seem connected. Possibly when you move the turn signal it also moves the contacts that are needed to keep the engine running? If the contacts lose thier connection, it can be just like turning the key off!

When it doesn't start, what does it do? Does it crank like the solenoid at the starter is getting the signal from the key, etc. to crank as if trying to start? Or does it just not try to crank as if the switch was no good? Devil is often in the details, so looking at WHAT actually happens is a start to finding the cure.

And that leads over into why Winnebago does not have info on the chassis! They don't build the chassis but buy it as a stripped chassis and put the RV on top. They don't need to know much about what makes the chassis run as it is somebody else that built that!

So it becomes a DIY or trip to folks who do know the chassis side of the RV! I would look first for roof solutions and then as that was moving along, also be looking for info on how the starter system works. There is a good chance that all most all of the battery connections are corroded after setting for so long. That makes getting the info and chasing the cables and connections a priority for me.

But I am also way past starting that sort of project! It can turn into a money pit and a lifetime of grief!

[creativepart]

Time, money and attention are all you need. As Richard says, the damage has been done and it’s either time to throw money at it and constant attention or cut your losses. Doing all that work to get it to start and then stopping for a few months are probably going to send you back to zero each time.

If it’s not going to be used don’t bother working on it to just let it sit some more. Like a car, but worse, it pretty much needs to be running and drivable to sell it and get it out of the driveway.

Hire an independent rv mechanic to come get it drivable, access the roof and other issues you don’t even know about yet.

And don’t worry about the headlights. They are not needed on a motorhome that can’t run or be driven.

[Ray,IN]

My MH one time acted the same, only I was in a rest area miles from home. the cause turned out to be a loose connection on the firewall in the LF corner exterior firewall. There is a large 12V wire that powers the cockpit area on a terminal block, then another like wire on the other terminal.
The nuts holding the wires to the terminal block were loose just enough to prevent solid, continuous contact, but not loose enough to be obvious.
When I would put the tranny in gear all power was lost, dead ignition key, nothing.
I called Good Sam ERS, and the mechanic who arrived helped me search for why power was lost. It took both of us searching about 90 minutes to find the loose nuts.
We tightened the nuts and the MH has ran fine ever since that happened in 2014.


Addressing your Kiwkee steps, this Kwikee Products Service Training Manual is of immense help. Kwikee steps are always "hot', the controller powers and reverses the motor by switching the ground..
Watch yourself, the steps can move at any time and mash a hand or sever a finger.


This is how Winnebago constructs the roof: See the "Adhesive sealant" comment? That is the only thing holding the fiberglass roof to the drip rail/guttering.

[NatureNut]

Well, appreciate all the kind words and replies - but I suppose the choice needs to be made if all this is 'worth it' for an RV as old as it is. Yes - for sure ALL RV's need 'work' just like your home. Lack of maintenance will do you in every time.
The question here is why toss a seemingly perfectly good chassis out the door when it's the covers that need replacing? And probably - to answer my own question - it's the cost, right?

I would like to fix the 'electrical'/kill engine issue because I can't drive it or have it pass inspection until that is fixed, and then I can either sell it to someone who wants to tinker around and fix the remaining parts, or at least drive it to the scrap yard. Still probably cheaper to fix the electrical issue than having it towed.

Current state/update is that I figured out that the ONLY combinations that cause this big 'ol bus to shut down are as follows:

1 - Engine running, turn on headlights or 'running lights', then use the 'turn signal' - engine dies/shuts down. NOTE - AS soon as you put on the lights, the ABS indicator shows up. Hadn't noted the 'connection' to the lights previously, but this is the ONLY scenario that seems to cause the ABS light to come on.

2 - Engine running, turn on the lights (running or headlights) and press the brake pedal. Engine shuts off. ABS light comes on as soon as you turn on the lights. In this scenario, no turn signal was attempted.

No other scenarios cause the engine to stop/shut down. I have not tried turning on the lights with the engine running, then without touching anything else turning them off again and see if either the brake or turn signal kill the engine.

So TECHNICALLY - I could drive this RV as long as I never put on the running/headlights, and I can use the turn signals as well. No night driving then, but it won't pass inspection like this.

Clearly - something odd, possible a relay issue? (Overloading when both lights/turn signal or lights/brake pedal activated?)

But I do not believe this is due to wires 'chafing' in the steering column.

On another note - if I wanted to repair the windows in this Journey 36G, were it the best place to get new seals? All the window seals (the rubber gaskets on the outside of the window which seat into the frame) are shot/shrunk.

Thanks and happy RV'ing y'all.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by NatureNut

On another note - if I wanted to repair the windows in this Journey 36G, were it the best place to get new seals? All the window seals (the rubber gaskets on the outside of the window which seat into the frame) are shot/shrunk.

Most parts like this are not unique to Winnebago or any other brand. There are large companies making generic seals, trim, etc and the manufacturers just find one that works.

Same for RV Windows. There is at least one motorhome brand that makes it's own windows - but Winnebago is not one of them.

Here's one of the companies that makes RV Windows and Seals:

https://www.steelerubber.com/camper-rv

A Google search for "Motorhome Window Seals" will turn up a number of options.

[Morich]

If you have the ignition, anti-lock brake alarm, turn signals and light wiring involved, I would ask where those three unrelated items are likely to come together?
Is there a relay that handles anything with lights and brake alarms?
A relay for ignition and turn signals?

Not that I know of but I do know those wires all land in cables along side each other and that cable does go places like through the firewall where they may get damaged.
An old saying in electronics is that we may know what they do when working right, but when working wrong, they can do anything they feel like!
All that can include things like the wire from the lights shorting to the wire feeding power to the ignition modules!
Taken to a dealer for repair they would almost certainly replace the wiring harness --- for a few big bucks!!

[danhannah]

It sounds like you're having some fun with your detective work, so maybe just keep the rig for your hobby!

Seriously, the only comment I can make is that I spent a lot of time and money on my RV headlights - which turn out to be from an old Ford Bronco design, as I recall. Why does Winnie do this, I wonder?

Anyway, after getting great headlights, I never got to use them much. It turns out we NEVER drive after dark, so all that effort was for not much gain. I think most RVers are like us, so maybe put headlights way at the bottom of the list...

I am curious if you ran all your tests again, but with individual circuit fuses pulled, such as pull the fuse for the blinkers, does the engine still die? That might narrow down the circuit involved for closer study.

Best of luck!

[Morich]

Originally Posted by danhannah

It sounds like you're having some fun with your detective work, so maybe just keep the rig for your hobby!

Seriously, the only comment I can make is that I spent a lot of time and money on my RV headlights - which turn out to be from an old Ford Bronco design, as I recall. Why does Winnie do this, I wonder?

Anyway, after getting great headlights, I never got to use them much. It turns out we NEVER drive after dark, so all that effort was for not much gain. I think most RVers are like us, so maybe put headlights way at the bottom of the list...

I am curious if you ran all your tests again, but with individual circuit fuses pulled, such as pull the fuse for the blinkers, does the engine still die? That might narrow down the circuit involved for closer study.

Best of luck!

This sounds like a good plan to try to get a better idea of what is going on! Big first step on troubleshooting is to form a plan to try to sort out WHAT exactly is happening and if you can pull some fuses to get some of that mystery out of the way, that will be a pretty cheap and semi-easy way to get more info.

As a side note, it may be worthwhile to be just very slow and careful as you do tests. That can mean something as weird as writing down what you are doing.

We don't get as involved as big industrial operations but when I worked with folks on really difficult things like moving a million dollar switch machine from one room to another, the plan was written down and all parties looked it over BEFORE a single item was started.

On troubleshooting, one big problem is to first set out what we do know, then when we do something to try to get more info, we need to write down what happened in that test! Seems too slow but nothing slows us down more than forgetting what we did the first round and having to do it over!

And forgetting is easy when we are into things that we are not used to doing. Sometimes I don't even know the names of the parts, so I like notes and pictures to go back if I get into some spot where one test shows yeh and the next test shows not!

[Ray,IN]

This is perhaps the leading website for RV seals: https://www.steelerubber.com/camper-rv
Next would be: https://www.pellandent.com/RV-Window-Seal

[Jim_HiTek]

It's a diesel...I've registered diesel RVs in Oregon, South Dakota, and California and NONE of them required anything other then a VIN inspection.

So I'm curious if you really need an 'inspection'.

Diesel engines do have a giant connector plugged into them and those sometimes get corroded contacts. So find those, in fact find ALL of those big multi-wire connectors and pull them and spray with contact cleaner. Transmissions have them too.

Also, keep in mind that diesel engines don't run on electricity like gas engines do. No ignition system, no sparks...but they do have a fuel pump so check that out too. There are 6 electronic fuel injectors and it's hard to believe they've all failed at once. More likely some controller isn't getting power or the fuel pump isn't running at all.

Finally, under the dash are a bunch more connectors...remove the dash cowl, find them, and treat them with contact cleaner too.

The roof, $12,000? You can refinish it yourself or by hiring a mobile tech for under $5K most likely. Or maybe you only need some Eternabond work? Check out my ad free article about Winnie's excellent fiberglass roof and potential leaks covered with roofing tape that lasts for decades: Roof and Roof Items...

This is a '07 Winnebago Journey? A top of the line diesel RV? Very definitely worth fixing. My friend just turned his '01 Journey over to a consignment dealer and it had a number of problems, including a non-working refer. (But it did run). The dealer gave him $10,000, listed it at $24,000 AS-IS and sold it within 2 weeks. I would say that if yours runs and drives without using the headlights or turn signals someone would grab it AS-IS for sure.