Still another slide failure- 2nd time around in 6 years

[Americanrascal]

Sure am frazzled about the large driver side slide on my 38Q and very frustrated with the way 'bago made the welded bracket connection to the frame. Until a trip this past month from GA to CA the alignment and operation of the slide had been very good. All I can attribute the failure to is the extremely rough roads in CA and AZ that beat us to death.

We noticed a very erratic and uneven slide extension and retraction signaling to us that there was a major failure. The ram attachment to the frame uses two 1/2 x 3 inch bolts which I found the heads completely sheared off where they attached the roller support bracket to the frame. We are pretty sure we heard them when the bolts snapped. This happened on my rear ram about 4 years ago. It happened on the front ram this past week. The solution is to drill out the heads-- if I can- and to reinstall new bolts and align the slide

Unfortunately when built the factory welded the top of the bolt INSIDE the frame connecting piece to make it easier for them to install the nuts, but making it virtually impossible to remove the remaining welded bolt heads if they ever failed. I have been trying to drill the bolt heads out -- a very difficulty and awkward process with no room to maneuver and limited access with the drill, and I am not getting anywhere after several hours of drilling the heads.

On the rear ram I drilled a new hole and will likely have to do that here, but the 1/8 thick bracket steel is hard to drill. Winnebago sure wears me out sometimes. I sure hope I can get it fixed again.

The pic attached is of the 2 sheared bolts. Notice the gap between the top of the bolts and the above bracket where the heads are welded. My review of the schematics on the 'bago web site doesn't even show this type of support attachment for this model (?????) I was trying to find the spec on the bolt but could not find it.

If your looking for me for the next few weeks I'll probably be lying on my back day and night trying to drill the bolt heads out or drilling new holes?

[Jim_HiTek]

Couldn't you use a butane torch to heat up those bolts before trying to drill? Make them softer?

[Americanrascal]

Originally Posted by Jim_HiTek

Couldn't you use a butane torch to heat up those bolts before trying to drill? Make them softer?

My thought is I don't think I could get any access to the broken bolt head with any torch device, but it may have been possible- I'm not sure how.

The large tangle of bulky wires and water lines rubbing against the bracket would have been a major problem for anything with flame near the bracket.

Drilling the new holes was difficult but doable. Took quite a while as its overhead work in a tight area and had to rig a device to apply upward pressure to the drill.

Thanks for the observation and suggestion!

[99dart]

So., the sheared heads are in the bracket above the bolts. I don't suppose you could get 90° angle grinder with cut off wheel in then, huh.

[Americanrascal]

Originally Posted by 99dart

So., the sheared heads are in the bracket above the bolts. I don't suppose you could get 90° angle grinder with cut off wheel in then, huh.

Yep-- both above and recessed, and welded inside a 3 walled 1/8 inch steel formed bracket only accessible (????) from the rear (inside toward the frame). I initially tried to get my angle grinder up inside the rear area and into the bracket. That was never going to happen--- but I gave it a try right off the bat-- never could get close or inside the bracket assembly to get to the bolt heads.. Tried drilling the heads out, but the bolt heads were just too hard. Only success was to drill adjacent holes. Still took several hours of drilling with pressure but eventually broke through. Seems to be working OK but need to work on elevation alignment a bit. Has worked well on the rear ram bracket repair for several years now. The slide is opening and retracting smoothly now

[GoneToTheDog]

I bought my one and only motorhome with a slideout in 2000. It was a constant problem, and required numerous trips to the dealer. Never was corrected. When I got rid of that thing, I vowed....Never Again.
And here we are, 20 some years later, with people still constantly reporting problems with a slideout. Ridiculous.
Happy I made my decision. Certainly less frustration. And no, we don't miss having more room in the least.

[RTrider]

We also have a 38Q and we have had one failure under the refrigerator. We took it to Forest City. They repaired it, but horrible work quality. They welded the bracket and somehow got a new bolt in. While we were their, 3 other units were in for exactly the same repair. In the discussion with others, I was told that Winnebago used 2 Grade 8 bolts on each support. Assuming that's true, it was a terrible choice. Grade 8 are very hard and very strong, but also very prone to impact failure because the are so hard they break on impact or sharp motion. Grade 8 are also very difficult to drill.

[09 harley]

Can you imagine what they would charge you for doing this? Good job of doing it yourself.
I have tried lots of drill bits over the years. I found Norseman drill bits and they are the best I’ve used. I bought a set from 1/16 to 1/2 and they serve most needs. Capable of drilling through anything. Get a set for the future.
My hunch is that the bolts that failed are grade 5 or 8. They go through a hardening process to achieve their strength. The problem is the heat of the welding. With the frame rail acting as a heat sink the heat stays in the head and this caused stress at the head / shank area. The strength is lowered and with a load it breaks at a lower level than it’s rating.
I know that we rationalize these failures by saying that with the stress of driving down the road this is normal. It shouldn’t be. The engineering to build a lunar lander is much different than designing the same module for stationery use. We need engineers that can design for the loads encountered by our RV’s. Should be too hard. It’s not rocket science like building the lunar module. Come on engineers. Do your job. Part of that is anticipating the strength changes that are affected by heat, as in welding, and normal impacts of driving down the road.
I’m reminded of the old engineer joke. It goes like this. You would think that they designed your vehicle as if you had slept with their wife and they wanted to get back at you.
Good job and you will have peace of mind in the future.
Final point. Why was an oval or round hole not cut on the rail to allow a wrench to pass through and hold the bolt head? Rather than welding this would allow easy repair. Extra steps mean more cost so they cut corners and a 10 minute job takes hours.

[Americanrascal]

Originally Posted by 09 harley

Final point. Why was an oval or round hole not cut on the rail to allow a wrench to pass through and hold the bolt head? Rather than welding this would allow easy repair. Extra steps mean more cost so they cut corners and a 10 minute job takes hours.

I think you are referring to the top of the fastening on the bracket where the bolt head was originally welded?? The entire rear of the bracket is open. Both ends of the bolt are totally accessible with various types of wrenches-- but yes it is very tight. I could not get any cutting device inside the rear opening of the bracket to remove the old bolt head. I could not insert the new bolt in from the top down as the bracket is too short between its bottom and the frame where its welded to allow a new bolt to go into the hole. As the bracket is shorter than the bolt, and if the bolt had failed absent a weld being applied in the factory, the threaded shank would have to have been cut short to remove it-- but that's a far better solution than drilling a new hole in the bracket for a reinsertion of a new bolt.

The bottom line is the weld was never necessary in the factory.

All that said once the new bolt was inserted from the bottom up I could get a wrench on either end