OCCC: Vista 27P vs Adventurer 29B

[PetrKuzmitch]

I know OCCC questions are popular but I didn't find anything about 2021 models.

So, I am looking for my first RV. We decided (after renting few) that it should be new F53 class A under 30ft. We are currently choosing between Vista 27P and Adventurer 29B. Lean towards Adventurer because it is not much more expensive but has number of very good small features and options. Recently I've learnt about OCCC and found that it is a number you can't just google. The only way to find it is yellow sticker next to the driver seat. I did my research and here are results:
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Vista 27P (with cooling upgrade): 3245#
Vista 29V: 1875#
Adventurer 27N: 2200#
Adventurer 29B: 1411#
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1411# looks ridiculous to me. Even with 1/3 of water (200#) and my relatively small family (400#) I will have only 800# for all the stuff and food. Vista's 3200# looks a way more reasonable.

We are not full timers, just plan to go to state parks. But I like to have everything I might need with me. Any Adventurer 29B owners here? Will 800# be enough? If not, how do you guys deal with it? I kinda convinced myself that slight overweight (let's say 5% of GVWR) is not a big deal and it should cover our needs.

[creativepart]

Where did you get those numbers?

[PetrKuzmitch]

I went to our local dealers and made a picture of yellow stickers myself.

[PetrKuzmitch]

Not a single Adventurer 29B or older Vista LX (which I believe a predecessor of Adventurer 29) here?

[powercat_ras]

FYI, I have a 2015 Vista 27N (it's like the 2016, etc. 27N LX and early versions of the Adventurer 27Ns before they upgraded the Adventurer 27N to two ACs and 50 Amps), it's length is 29' 6" with 3 slides including a long slide on the passenger side and it's OCCC label says 2767 lbs. I had mine 4 corners weighted at Escapees in Livingston and can confirm this is accurate. It carries slightly under 1,000 pounds more weight on the passenger side tires than on the driver's side tires when loaded for normal use - because kitchen/dining item storage, refrigerator, pantry, 9 drawer dresser, and most of the basement storage is on the passenger side. This has never caused me any issues , but according to my TPMS the passenger side tires run a few PSI higher when warmed up during travel due to the higher loading.

With full water and full cargo Escapees Smart Weigh calculated I was about 800 pounds under on OCCC for my particular coach including my weight as the driver.

FYI, I'm not too surprised that the OCCC has dropped from 2700 to 2200 over the years, as they now have 5,500 W Onan vs. the former 4,000 W one, two ACs vs. one, they now have 50 Amp vs 30 Amp Electrical, Front power shade, Studio Loft front bed, and some styling changes like tile in bath and kitchen that added weight.

[Bones2003]

PetrKuzmitch, like you I was very concerned about OCCC when we were searching for our new motorhome. I also had to search for the stickers to get good estimates of actual coaches. Our 30 ft 2003 Sunova had plenty but the newer models around that size have significantly less. It seems to be that the new models have two (or more) slides. Being the somewhat anal engineering type, I created a detailed list of everything that I wanted to carry with an estimate of weight for each item. It was somewhat of a surprise to me how quickly it adds up. For example just for our cat and her miscellaneous items the total was about 85 lbs. Our total occupants and cargo came to between 1800 to 2000 lbs with most everything we intend to carry. This included some water but no where near full tanks.

The other consideration is that exceeding your OCCC will eat into your available GCVWR and might impact your ability to tow a larger vehicle or trailer.

Edit: I just noticed that Randy in post #6 above indicated his actual cargo and occupants came to approximately 2000 lbs. Very similar to me.

[PetrKuzmitch]

Thanks, this is what I expected also. 2000# is a minimum. I also gonna have 4 bikes with bike rack, and some tools and whatever else. I would set 2500# as my own minimum. Only Vista 27P fits it but after I learnt everything about Adventurer, I want Adventurer :-). I have no idea why they don't use 20500# (at least) chassis for it. Few thousand bucks but what a difference it would be!

As for towing, I plan to avoid it, at least for the first 2 years. And then may be get something like Chevy Spark which is 2300# and unload something to it but this is also very inconvenient.

I checked other manufacturers websites. Seems like the most "under 30ft" uses 18000#. Found only Newmar (which is also sort of Winnebago now) has 20500# (Bay Star Sport) and even 22000# (Bay Star).

[creativepart]

Also do some research on an RV with 4 bikes on a bike rack. 90% of bike racks are not rated for use behind a motorhome at all - and that's with two bikes.

Seems the back of a motorhome bobs and lurches quite a bit and the majority of racks are not built for that. The rear hitch of a car or truck has much less movement.

This one is RV rated and holds 4-bikes:
https://www.etrailer.com/RV-and-Camp...ks/HR4000.html

[PetrKuzmitch]

...and you don't see them while driving :-). Yes, this could be a problem. Great info! Thanks, creativepart!

[Hermes2]

I agree that the OCCC for the 2020-21 Adventurer 29B is pretty low when considering all you're probably going to put in it. I haven't weighed ours yet at the CAT scales, but with two or three aboard and everything loaded up (including hauling a toad), we've put about 8,000 miles and six or seven weeks of camping on ours on all types of roads. During that time I've made sure to check the tire pressures often. We haven't experienced any problems to date.

[PetrKuzmitch]

How was your driving experience? Does it feel like overloaded? I would love to see numbers.

[Hermes2]

Originally Posted by PetrKuzmitch

How was your driving experience? Does it feel like overloaded? I would love to see numbers.

Completed a 5,000 mile trip from ATL to LAV and 7 national parks in Utah, Colorado, and Arizona in our 30' 2021 Winnebago Adventurer 29B (190" wheelbase, 18,000 lb. chassis, 7.3 L engine). Towing a 2020 Chevy Equinox. Some observations, comparing this chassis to my previous 28' class C with the same wheelbase but the V10 and a 15,000 lb. chassis and no toad.

MILEAGE: Averaged 7.7 MPG at a maximum cruise speed of 65 -- toad limited. Hoped for better, as the class C average 9-to-10 while keeping at 70 MPH or more. I'm chalking it up to the higher gross weight, added toad, and aerodynamics.

HANDLING: Added Safe-T-Plus steering stabilizer before the trip to help reduce steering wander and the impact of cross-winds and passing trucks. It works as advertised! Sway seemed better than the similarly sized class C. However, on the few times I got it up to 70+ MPH while passing or downhill, I noted that the steering seemed to get lighter (it wandered more and took less effort to turn the wheel), which was a little disconcerting, as it seemed "loose". I'm wondering if excess weight in the rear, aero or tires has something to do with it. Considering Sumo Springs for the rear.

ENGINE: The V8 seemed to pull well accelerating onto freeway and cruised well at 65 MPH (about 2,300 RPM). Quieter at cruise than the class C by a wide margin (67 dB in the class A vs. 87 dB in class C before I modded it). Engine screams bloody murder when going up or down grades of 6%, 8%, or 10%. It freaked me out when some cooling fans kicked in the first time on a long grade -- sounded like some turboprop airplane. Engine consistently climbed big grades at over 4,000 RPM in 3rd gear to hold 40-to 45 MPH. Same going downhill with engine braking. Not much different from my experience in the class C, but noticeably louder. There is also a fair amount of heat and noise coming from the doghouse.

RIDE: Kind of a wash compared to the class C. The new A seems to exhibit less sway, but you can still feel every expansion joint or rough patch through the seat and especially the steering wheel. The C had air bags in the rear, which seemed to soften some of the ride, at least in the back. It's still a truck.

TOWING: This was a first for me. Used the set up recommended by many -- Roadmaster base plates and tow bar with Stay-and-Play Duo braking system. Fast and easy connect and disconnect. Towed like a dream, wouldn't have known it was in back there if I didn't have a camera watching it.

TECH: I've a love/hate relationship with Android Auto in the MH. Had to update the Sony head unit software so that it would return back to AA after the turn signals were used. Also frustratingly drops the connection between head unit and phone at random times for no particular reason. Doesn't matter what cable is being used. Otherwise, I love having maps, tunes, and Google voice commands. Wish it were a 10" screen for easier viewing.

NEXT UP: It's going to the shop for some warranty work. Biggest issue is dash AC -- Winnebago reversed the supply/return lines at the factory so it doesn't cool. Main cabin AC threw a condenser coil fan blade, so that has to be fixed. A few other relatively minor things. Also, have to take it to Ford to check/R&R the differential per the recall, and check/R&R the "AdvanceTrak" which goes off kind of randomly and cuts out cruise control, etc.

[Bigc]

Thanks for the really useful info. When I looked at the OCCC etc I did not think pulling a TOAD was in truth possible with the 5000 lbs hitch and overall GVWR. I think A frame has a tongue weight of max 150 lbs.

On the MPG, sway, etc. Given the 29B is on19.5 rims, I wonder how that impacts things? When you look at say the Newmar Bay Star 3014, same F53 chassis, higher GVW/R and greater OCCC, it has slightly more inside (added weight) but its on 22.5 rims.

Maybe the move to bigger rims/wheels helps. Winnebago owns Newmar. The Baystar to Baystar sport seems to be mainly a rim/tyre size change.

I am a yachti so RVs are new to me. Any comments on the above welcome.

[JLUSoCal]

Originally Posted by Bigc

Thanks for the really useful info. When I looked at the OCCC etc I did not think pulling a TOAD was in truth possible with the 5000 lbs hitch and overall GVWR. I think A frame has a tongue weight of max 150 lbs.

On the MPG, sway, etc. Given the 29B is on19.5 rims, I wonder how that impacts things? When you look at say the Newmar Bay Star 3014, same F53 chassis, higher GVW/R and greater OCCC, it has slightly more inside (added weight) but its on 22.5 rims.

Maybe the move to bigger rims/wheels helps. Winnebago owns Newmar. The Baystar to Baystar sport seems to be mainly a rim/tyre size change.

I am a yachti so RVs are new to me. Any comments on the above welcome.

On the toad, you need to look at GCWR for what you have left to tow. And add the hitch weight from what the TOAD is putting back on the motorhome. I think it's much less than 100 pounds depending on the towbar that will affect what's on the motorhome itself.

Moving to 22.5 rims alone will not help any other factors - the F53 chassis has several "models" with varying weight limits where from the factory they do things like bigger axels, tires, brakes, frame strengthening, etc.

You're stuck with how it's built for the most part and as you mentioned some manufacturers build on a bigger chassis to help with existing weight and resulting capacity limits (or rather bigger margins).

That reminds me I have to get to a Cat scale to ensure I'm not overweight (or at least not my rig as I know I am!).