Itasca Sunstar 30T water siphoning

[Still Bill]

OK, I filled out an on-line form on the Winnebago website and have already heard back from Service Administration about the solution to what they confirm is a "siphoning" condition applicable to my 2013 Itasca Sunstar 30T. The solution is so simple, I know that I can easily do the modification myself.

But, due to a confidentiality clause that came with the solution, I realize that I am not supposed to share it on this forum or elsewhere.

Seeing that many who have posted possess other than 30T models (year of manufacture could be an issue too), I assume that Winnebago only wants the provided solution to be used on the model(s)/year(s) for which it is intended.

So, if you have any water loss issue on your motorhome, I suggest you contact Winnebago directly for their approved solution to your issue. And I fully trust that they will provide the correct solution for your model.

And their Service Adviser responded within one day of my submitting the inquiry. So, what do you have to lose by going directly to the source?

Otherwise, I still appreciate all of the different creative solutions previously provided by contributors to this thread. But, that little voice in my head told me there was more to this tale for my specific motorhome...and apparently there was per Winnebago.

Hope this helps those with any kind of water loss issue.

Bill

[danhannah]

Confidentiality Clause? Are you being serious??

[Peter27C]

Ah Zman, the thrust and parry of debate!

Here's the challenge to all 30T readers of this topic that have easy access to their RV.

With your RV parked right side higher than the left side, (you can use the jacks on manual do do this, and the screen will tell what angle you are on), fill the water tank until the water flows out the overflow.

Turn the water off, get a deck chair and a beer, and wait until the water stops flowing out the overflow pipe. Now look where the water level is in the left side of the tank. You can see this easily through the door to access the city water fill, outside shower etc. if the water is at, or very close to the top edge of the tank then water has flowed downhill out the overflow pipe.

If the water stops a couple of inches down the side of the tank, or half way as some have claimed, your tank is siphoning.

You will spoil the challenge if you don't actually do this and just make up your answer as to what you think will happen!

Pete

[Mblank66]

I had the same problem on my 2012 Navion. It cost me a third of a tank of water on my way to a dry camping trip where I had no access to running water. When The dealer kept the unit for two weeks without fixing the problem, I just wrapped the opening with a baggie and locked it in place with a rubber band. It seems to have stopped the water loss with a cost in time and money of next to zero.

[Still Bill]

Originally Posted by danhannah

Confidentiality Clause? Are you being serious??

To answer that...I can only suggest that you send in your own inquiry to Winnebago so you can read their clause for yourself.

Bill

[dezrtracr]

I have contacted Winnebago before. The clause states the following: "This electronic transmission and any documents accompanying this electronic transmission contain confidential information belonging to the sender. This information may be legally privileged. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in reliance on or regarding the contents of this electronically transmitted information is strictly prohibited."

[dezrtracr]

Peter27C, I do like the your drain modification. I am curious though about what now happens at the point the tank is completely filled. Does the top of the tank balloon up before water begins to exit via the drain? On my old Fleetwood, there was no overflow drain at all. The gravity fill w/air vent was located about 10" about the top of the tank. The top of the tank would balloon a significant amount before water would drain out of the gravity fill.

[danhannah]

Originally Posted by Still Bill

To answer that...I can only suggest that you send in your own inquiry to Winnebago so you can read their clause for yourself.

Bill

Sorry - I stand corrected, I'm really surprised at this legalese and that they prohibit sharing the information.

There must be a good reason!

[Peter27C]

Dezrtracr it's hard to see the top of the tank but I assume it does bulge a bit. We live in our RV generally for several months at a time. We do cover miles and mostly shift every day (over the 40 years I been visiting the U.S. I have visited every state!).
So I use the coach. I fill when ever I need water and fill through which ever side of the coach is nearest the faucet. When I fill I open the door on the RH side so I can watch the water level rise in the tank. When the water gets to the top of the tank I turn the faucet off. The gravity fill door is now the "lowest opening" so if I overfill the tank this where the water overflows. The gravity fill door does not need to be opened for the overflow water to come out there, and it is several inches above the top of the tank. The gravity fill point on the tank is below the top surface of the tank so if the LH side is low air can be trapped above the top of the fill point and I did think about putting a vent on the top of the tank on that side, but have not bothered at this point.

Lots of company's have standard warnings on their emails but I think this is more for when emails get sent mistakenly to wrong addresses. I accept the the U.S. Is a litigation based country, but would struggle to believe Winnebago would sue one of their customers for sharing info about their product to help another of their customers!

Pete

[TeJay]

Hey Peter, Do you guys need some lawyers in NZ? We have Waaaaaaay to many here in the U.S. They are like a plague. They are here because our Constitution allows freedom of speech. Then there's the $$$$$$ part of it. Just look in a phone book at the number of pages of lawyers.

Following a standard lawyers rhetoric regarding disclosure of information pertaining to a simple fix is yes ones freedom of choice but borders on being absurd. IMHO!!

Life would be truly boring if we followed all their warnings and not only would we not get much done we'd not discover to many new things either.

I'm going to SIN and break the law. I also contacted WBGO. We are to install a 3/4" piece of Pex tubing over the existing elbow overflow drain. It is to be attached to the elbow with a screw. This is supposed to allow air to enter the draining water overflow and break the siphon action which is causing the water to drain (so says WBGO). Here's the problem. On our 2014 Vista 30T there is already a 3/4" piece of tubing installed over the elbow drain and held on with a small screw. My water still drains down to about 3/4's of a tank the one time I tried it. As it exists it does not break the siphoning action (if that siphoning action is really happening as Peter commented about.) If there really is a different secret fix (I guess we'll never know) what reason would WBGO have for trying to keep it a secret??? We seldom fill the tank and usually use CG water supply.

I'm going to post this and nervously wait with my suitcase packed for the Poolieeec, FBI, HLS, NSA, CIA, DOD or whom ever is going to rush me off to the slammer.

TeJay

[Peter27C]

Thanks for manning up and publishing that Teejay. Happy to visit you in prison.

However, if I worked for Winnebago and came up with a "solution" like that I would want it kept secret too!

I will stake my 40 years experience as an Automotive Engineer that if you want to be able to fill your water tank to the top, then drive down the road, or park on a slope, and not loose any water, that "fix" just is not going to work!

Pete

[TeJay]

That's why I haven't done anything yet. I don't believe it will work very well either. It might slow down or reduce the possibilities but fix it completely?? NO!!!

TeJay

[tderonne]

My fix:



The diameter change is above the level of the top of the tank. I don't lose any water with this setup. It used to siphon about 1/3 of the volume out of the tank if I filled it 100% before, even using my gravity fill and leaving it open.

[Still Bill]

Originally Posted by danhannah

Sorry - I stand corrected, I'm really surprised at this legalese and that they prohibit sharing the information.

There must be a good reason!

In this world of litigation, I fully understand why they need to have such verbiage.

Yesterday, I checked my 30T towards doing their confidential solution; and, guess what??? The modification was already done on mine. Obviously without having much effect. Did send another inquiry to Winnebago; because they should be aware of the no-fix situation. Sooooooo...Probably going back to Pete's original suggestion. Pete for President!

Will be retiring from work in two weeks...Should have plenty of time to figure it out soon...LOL

Bill

[Still Bill]

Originally Posted by TeJay

Hey Peter, Do you guys need some lawyers in NZ? We have Waaaaaaay to many here in the U.S. They are like a plague. They are here because our Constitution allows freedom of speech. Then there's the $$$$$$ part of it. Just look in a phone book at the number of pages of lawyers.

Following a standard lawyers rhetoric regarding disclosure of information pertaining to a simple fix is yes ones freedom of choice but borders on being absurd. IMHO!!

Life would be truly boring if we followed all their warnings and not only would we not get much done we'd not discover to many new things either.

I'm going to SIN and break the law. I also contacted WBGO. We are to install a 3/4" piece of Pex tubing over the existing elbow overflow drain. It is to be attached to the elbow with a screw. This is supposed to allow air to enter the draining water overflow and break the siphon action which is causing the water to drain (so says WBGO). Here's the problem. On our 2014 Vista 30T there is already a 3/4" piece of tubing installed over the elbow drain and held on with a small screw. My water still drains down to about 3/4's of a tank the one time I tried it. As it exists it does not break the siphoning action (if that siphoning action is really happening as Peter commented about.) If there really is a different secret fix (I guess we'll never know) what reason would WBGO have for trying to keep it a secret??? We seldom fill the tank and usually use CG water supply.

I'm going to post this and nervously wait with my suitcase packed for the Poolieeec, FBI, HLS, NSA, CIA, DOD or whom ever is going to rush me off to the slammer.

TeJay

Ditto on the solution...And the fact that it does not improve the situation.

Wishing I was in a far away country without extradition.

Bill

[Tony Lee]

Originally Posted by Peter27C

It's not siphoning!

It is likely to be syphoning in some rigs because even though the overflow pipe does not extend into the tank, when the tank is hydraulically full and water is flowing out the overflow pipe, the tank itself is the other half of the syphon pipe and the tank just collapses into itself and the water keeps flowing. That keeps going until the suction pressure (equal to the height of the overflow tube) is overcome by the resistance of the tank to being further collapsed. At that point the flow stops and eventually there will be a flow of air back into the tank and the tank will regain its original shape, but with air now filling the top of the tank instead of water.

Yes, as others have said, a well-recognised problem that successive generations of motorhome manufacturers have not been able to solve and one that they deliberately choose to ignore and let owners sort out for themselves.

[zman-az]

Originally Posted by Tony Lee

It is likely to be syphoning in some rigs because even though the overflow pipe does not extend into the tank, when the tank is hydraulically full and water is flowing out the overflow pipe, the tank itself is the other half of the syphon pipe and the tank just collapses into itself and the water keeps flowing. That keeps going until the suction pressure (equal to the height of the overflow tube) is overcome by the resistance of the tank to being further collapsed. At that point the flow stops and eventually there will be a flow of air back into the tank and the tank will regain its original shape, but with air now filling the top of the tank instead of water.

Yes, as others have said, a well-recognised problem that successive generations of motorhome manufacturers have not been able to solve and one that they deliberately choose to ignore and let owners sort out for themselves.

That's what I have been trying to tell him, like your way of putting it.

[530ktm]

I thought I would share my fix for this. I angled the vent pipe back a bit so it is not straight down and added about 5 feet of hose that goes up a good 4 inches above the tank and looped it around and then back out the drain tube. I filled my tank to the top then put the jacks down on the right side which shoved all the water in the tank over to where the vent is and nothing came out, zip. Last time I filled the water tank I went to Costco for gas and proceeded to drain a quarter of my water going and it continued while at the pump. I had to put the jacks down on the left side to raise up so the water level went down and it then quite running out. I felt kind of silly wasting all that water and the attendant had to mop up the ground to get the water off. Anyways, it appears that this fixed my situation for now.

[dezrtracr]

I spoke to a service rep at Winnebago this week about the 30T water loss issue. He suggested that the drain tube be re-plumbed to run a hose to the gravity fill vent port.

[530ktm]

Originally Posted by dezrtracr

I spoke to a service rep at Winnebago this week about the 30T water loss issue. He suggested that the drain tube be re-plumbed to run a hose to the gravity fill vent port.

Interesting and sounds like it may work. The fix I posted above a while back has proven to not work like it should. As we all know, this vent line needs to go up somewhere and tying it in with the fill tube sounds like a possibility. That way if it spews water it will just go back into the tank. My fill cap area is under no pressure sealed environment at all so it seems feasible. Next project.