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Old 06-23-2024, 11:30 AM   #1
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HWH 610 central-ground leveling system

Suddenly the jacks down alarm and light are not working. I have the 610 service manual with the wiring schematics but, so far I haven't located the cause of no warnings.
HWH manuals do not include Winnebago wiring, nor where the marriage with HWH wiring is located.

.

Anyone experienced this, if so, what was your solution?


Morich you are very good with Winnebago schematics and drawings. I hope you have or can find the solution. My MH details are in my signature.
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Old 06-23-2024, 02:03 PM   #2
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This looks like a different setup than ones we hear about that sense the fluid in the tank? This has a stand alone control box that has the connections for the alarm run to it.

Kind of reading between the lines and hoping that fits!

Not finding much in the Winn drawings for the jacks. I think they treat them as an "added "item and do little to show any connection. But looking at the info you posted, maybe it tells us what we need to know.
I looked at the alarm where I believe they show the light on the dash for the alarm and then worked backward to the control box.
Some guessing so check it before trusting !
But I believe the alarm is fed as shown in picture 1, it comes from picture 2 which is one end of the control box.
I think the main power comes from some connection to the RV into the other end of the control box in picture 3!
Looking from the alarm light in pic 1 it comes from 2 after going into the box in picture 3?
No hints on drawings for where the control box lives???
Click these snips to get better view or go direct?
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My thought runs that if the jacks are moving or doing anything, the power from Winn to the box is good? So maybe the fuses on the box? Wonder what the ACC fuse does?

One of those things that they don't tell us much more about what they do, just where to find it when we connect! Check to see if any of that meets what you have?? Good luck!
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Old 06-23-2024, 02:58 PM   #3
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Durn Rich, I forgot some information_the cardinal sin.
My leveling system works normally as designed, it's just the visual and audible warnings that do not function.
I gave up working with it today, too humid and hot wore me out.
Tomorrow I'll test for power at the control box (your attachment #2, for the Master Warning Light output when the jacks are down.
Surely there is a fuse protecting that circuit_somewhere. I'll also test each fuse for 0 ohms to insure each one is good.
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Old 06-23-2024, 05:38 PM   #4
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My thought is that a number 10 is a pretty beefy wire, so it may do the whole job of the control box and since the alarm seems to feed from that box, I was jumping to thinking the jacks work meaning the power was getting at least as far as the box.
So if that ACC fuse is out, maybe the alarm is considered part of the ACCessories?
It took me a bit to figure that I was looking at first one end and then the other of the same box.
I noticed a "jacks warning/pressure switch" connection in picture 2 and that seems to be different than what I was kind of used to seeing with a float of some sort on the fluid in the tank? A pressure switch at each jack? Too many of those little details to get it straight!

And something you may already know but I've never looked at RV with the air ride, etc. so I'm in the dark! Is this the control we are speaking of? It is listed under the hydraulic leveling but I'm not finding the right stuff to say where they pick the power for it!
Since they often recommend running the engine when we do jacks, is that an indication that this may be on the chassis breakers/fuses?

Bingo! Belay that thought as I just stumbled into a clue. I'm not used to finding much info on chassis wiring but I just found this. That should lead to power at some point so I will give it a look while you cool a bit.
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I have been watching a blue jay doing something I know others like robins do but never seen a bluejay! Setting on the cedar fence in back and spreading his wings to soak up as much heat as possible. I read that it is a way they try to "treat" some type parasites by "cooking" them.
Should be no problem to cook but I think of them doing it on the ground! This guy looked like he was passing out but seemed to know what he was doing!

I'm in the cool so will give a look for power!
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Old 06-23-2024, 06:29 PM   #5
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Wow! Thanks for the investigating. Have you got the web address of where you found that snippit? I need to know what the #9 reference in the triangle leads to.
You are connecting the dots so to speak, and have shown me where to look tomorrow.
Now my problem is my age; there is barely enough room to lay on the floor between driver seat and steering column on my side and still work. I know I can get down in there, getting out is the unknown.
Years ago when I got down in there I had to worm out feet first on my side.
Perhaps I'd better tie a rope to my feet so DW can pull me out with the lawn mower_.


As to the bluejay thing; I know buzzards sun their wings every morning. DNR says they do this because the sunlight kills bacteria in their feathers. They pick up the bacteria and germs from eating road-kill.
I don't have a clue, that's what I was told by a fish and wildlife person.


Some birds have to dry off the moisture from their wings before they can fly in the morning.
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Old 06-23-2024, 07:23 PM   #6
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I think I found where the other end of the HWH wire(your #1 snippet) fits. Found it here: https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...000/133700.pdf


Third drawing down the page, top of drawing. Haven't found where you got the last picture.
Hey, I'm getting educated on how to use the W wiring diagrams too, thanks for that too.
Haven't figured out how to include one with my post though.

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Old 06-24-2024, 09:22 AM   #7
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Yes, the best part of the forum is that we can pass info on as none of us are ever going to know it all! So if we all throw in little bits and pieces as we do get to know them better and then we compare notes, we can learn a lot of stuff.

But then the problem gets into the same thing as us laying in the floor? How much do we want to do that!
I'm well past wanting to work much and the contacts that I had built up just doing calls has been pretty well blown up with covid. One main interest just flat died and others decided it was just time to quit! My wife has decided she doesn't want to get out and go as too much trouble and too many that she doesn't want to be around, so I'm just kind of lost between feeling like doing something and not wanting to do anything! Our last trip to Florida was a real downer for me as just going into a place for lunch was no fun! I met a sheriff's deputy who was so KIND as to inform me that they didn't wear masks around there!
He seemed to think they didn't need "my kind" so we've marked Florida off for any place I'll take my money!
I was glad I wasn't speeding and just wearing a mask into a strange restaurant in a strange town was my big offense!

So I have time to kill and I'm glad to pass on where I find some of this information.
First is the wiring diagrams of mostly the coach systems. Some RV also have good stuff on the chassis side also and you are in that lucky group with quite a lot of both coach and chassis. I think of them as the stuff only on RV and the other as what the normal truck has.
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ram/Wiring.htm
Your RV is way past all the rest and bottom by itself!
You get to your RV and it has a list of various drawings of different types. Installation drawings will often be more a physical layout of where the wires and cables run. That is good if you don't know where something like the generator is even located! But the lines are not real clear at times and leave a lot to improve!
Then the "wiring diagrams" are more what I think of as "schematics" and closer to a real wire by wire layout of what each wire connects together. Close but not actually ALL the wires? Sometimes they seem to think EVERYBODY knows that, so they leave stuff off.
If they show a power wire goes in, we sometimes have to assume there is a ground for it to come out!
The mode solenoid is one where they show power in but often fail to show that the mounting screw is the ground if it is a three connection type. The four connection type has another wire FM that is laid down on that mounting screw to give it ground from two places!
If you go to "Automotive wiring diagram" in the list, you get good stuff I was not expecting to find as many RV , we don't get the automotive end!
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...000/133700.pdf

When we go there, the first thing I spotted was where H and 1 might cross! And we see a note in triangle for note 9? Winn. draws as if the sheets and frames (S1 F? ) are laid out side by side. Sheet 1 of 5, then S1F2, S1F3, laying them out from right to left!
Asian influence, maybe?
The notes (triangles) will be down in left lower corner of last frame of that group of sheets.

If we think of them laid out on a table, notice there are no lines running off the right side, but they all go off the left on the first page? Across the top, the numbers are 1-3 and if we move to frame 2, we get 4-6 and continue on up to the end of that group of sheets on frame 5 for this bunch!

Main hint might be that if you are following a line and it goes off the page on left, scroll DOWN to the next page and expect it to come in on right!
If the line goes off page on right, go UP end expect it to come in on left!

Big help is the wired "decoder sheet here:
https://www.winnebago.com/Files/File...ical_guide.pdf
See wire ID on the first sheet for KE and LD? Those both show as 14 gauge yellow wires and should be labeled on the wires when we find them. But if we look on the decoder list, we can hit "CNTL and F" to bring a drop down where we can put in an ID like KE!
That often can cut us right to the thing we are looking for instead of scrolling down to KE! But the fault is ke is also in a lot of words and we get 152 spots, so we have to scroll down to KE!
That tells us it is from a "run only" power source to a relay. Not real helpful!
then LD tells us it is from Ignition switch accessory power source to relay!

Chasing these two wires, they both go to a relay. I don't have the info on which contacts of that relay meet what other contact, so I'm guessing again!
What I see it that the jack alarm gets power from either the engine running on KE or when the key is on first click/ ignition accessories using LD!

I kind of gave up chasing these two wires as they go lots of different places to power lots of different things. Seems to power about everything that comes on when the engine is running or the key is on access. and that's a lot of stuff!
I think power will be good to this point or you would see lots of stuff not work!

If you look at sheet one and follow LD down past where it branches to left but further down to E where it shows a plug on sheet 4 E-4? If we chase that to sheet 4 and find that plug, we get a whole mess but where the power comes from, either when running or acc. !
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This leads to the mode solenoid for both chassis and coach power. They don't show it but I know the solenoid has those two power cables on each side! That solenoid is where the boost/jump start connects as well as when we drive to charge the coach batteries, so I know it is there but they don't show us on this drawing! It also looks like they messed up and somehow drew the solenoid twice! NOT perfect drawings!
But the main idea is that the brown line and the orange line both go through different fuses and bring power up to a relay and that relay switches which wire to make hot when running or on ACC.
You have a source selector switch? You might check that amplifier works on both sources but I really don't think this is the current problem as it feeds so much, I feel like you would have noticed that much stuff lost!

In the future, is you ever notice about half the 12volt RV stops working, these two fuses might be a place to look ! Those are 30 amp fuses and that says they are feeding LOTS of stuff you are likely to notice missing!

I'm leaning toward the problem being on the control box!
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Old 06-24-2024, 09:27 AM   #8
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Or did you mean this drawing?
I got this out of the HWH info you posted!
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Old 06-24-2024, 11:11 AM   #9
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I just came in the house, I spent all morning with the MH. I found the lack of warning signals. A plug on the control box was partially out of the socket. I couldn't see it, but when pushing them in rather hard, one felt like it seated more.
Those multi-wire plugs don't even have a lock to keep them from vibrating loose.

I lowered the jacks and as soon as the first jack triggered the alarm it sounded and jacks down light came on like normal.


Thanks again Richard.



Thanks for your work tracing drawings and
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Old 06-24-2024, 11:53 AM   #10
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Reminds me of working! They often asked how long it would take to fix something and my answer was always a dodge!
It may not take 15 minutes to fix it but it may take four hours to find it!
If you were working for some of my bosses, they would be asking why it took so long to plug that wire in!
Now go play. Once the back stops hurting?
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Old 06-24-2024, 07:01 PM   #11
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After this searching and looking, I finally determined we were looking at the wrong HWH service manual.
We were looking at the HWH 610 service manual, I have the HWH 610 common-ground system. There is a difference in the control box design.
Anyway, we gotterdone.
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