Grand Tour/Ultra model quality?

[Meridian42e]

Originally Posted by Ranger Smith

I wasn't bashing your Meridian. Meridian is a nice coach. I was stating problems with the particular unit we looked at. As everyone knows some are lemons. This one we were looking at was. I don't know where you purchased yours. I did not buy mine at Johnson RV and I do not have a QD . . . It is a JD

Thanks for the response. We were looking at a 2012 42QD at Johnson and thought it would be funny if we each bought what the other was looking at originally, however I remember the Johnson one was an Ellipse.

Our Schwintek was replaced by the factory reps at the Dealer with the higher torgue, but not the newer thin rail Power Gear they went to. It was Camping World Longmont, and I wouldn't doubt it was the same one. It did have a history there. I guess if it ever gives trouble, I will have to retro that one in like the Factory is doing now on the warranty ones.

I saw your rig pic afterwards and it is gorgeous (the color we would want), and in my mind the 2012 was the ideal year for Winnebago. The underfloor Power Gear systems are awesome and I'm sure they are sad they ever left that platform.

[Ranger Smith]

That is why we went with the 2012. The Power Gear Slides. They just work

If it was Johnson in Quartzsite we looked at a QD they had there. Ended io at LaMesa over in Quartzsite where we got the Tour

[Flexflyer]

Bought a new 2017 Grand Tour last December. We’ve had no major issues with it so far. The worst quality control issue we had was the doorhandles to the half bath were installed backwards. You could lock it on the outside but not from the inside. The only thing now driving me crazy is the touchpad controller for all the RV’s systems. There is a ding dong chime going off continuously. I’ve read all the manuals and could not find any information on it. I called Winnebago and the tech couldn’t find anything about it either. He said it was such a new option they didn’t even have a manual from the manufacturer of it. Everything works on the touch pad controller so I don’t what it’s trying to tell me.

[Ranger Smith]

It is the new smart controller. The Ding Dong Chime is telling you . . . well a ding dong is operating the controller . . . Joke just a little humor

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by lowejug

Almost a couple of weeks with this thread now and almost zero response from owners... I find that very interesting. I am guessing there are just not a lot of owners out there which means these coaches are not good sellers , I guess I am not the only one who feels these coaches are on the low end build quality... To bad. Such a great floor plan and nice feeling decor. Maybe Winnebago can step up the bones on these coaches. And when they do I would like to look again. Jmo

Buying used is the best way to go these days. QC is nonexistent from the factory and the dealers won't fix what the buyer does not report. Most of the major issues are probably resolved by now.



We bought this 40U used. The front floorplan is the same as the Tour QD. We love it. Still have QC issues I have not resolved. At this point they are mainly cosmetic and we are living with them.


The chassis is a work horse. You will find that Freightliner did a good job with the build.



We have been to Forest City several times. Tours were lined up waiting for service. Slide issues were the major problem and has been for many years now. QC issues were also high on the list. Once all of that is resolved, the Tour is a great vacation or full timers home.


Just a word of caution. Most Camping World dealers have a terrible reputation. If you buy from a private party ask for the maintenance records.



I hope this insight is of some value to you.


Happy trails.
Rick

[Gordon Dewald]

We have a 15 Tour. Feel the build was very satisfactory. It has been holding up well in spite of the rough roads out there.

As you say we like the floor plan. That is what we looked for when we were considering units. Many nice ones out there but this is the one that fits our needs.

If you are expecting the perfect MH you are looking at the wrong ones. The one you are looking for is unlikely to exist. We met a fellow with a Prevost Marathon conversion and he was on the way to the factory for warranty work. He said he was well over a million.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

We have a 15 Tour. Feel the build was very satisfactory. It has been holding up well in spite of the rough roads out there.

As you say we like the floor plan. That is what we looked for when we were considering units. Many nice ones out there but this is the one that fits our needs.

If you are expecting the perfect MH you are looking at the wrong ones. The one you are looking for is unlikely to exist. We met a fellow with a Prevost Marathon conversion and he was on the way to the factory for warranty work. He said he was well over a million.

I love it when I see success stories like this. Good for you Gordon!


There are far too many stories of folks that go the other way. I can't say what the percentage is for good builds rolling out the factory door, but the dissatisfied buyers certainly make themselves heard on forums like this, in the campground and at the service centers. Sad but true, it seems the odds of getting a new coach ready to hit the road with a few later issues is less common than the I can't use my new RV. Too much wrong with it scenario. The manufacture name is not a guaranty of quality any longer. Some are worse than others.



When you consider that these things see something like a 7.2 quake in some of the road conditions we travel, good and solid builds is a must. That is where quality control should be stepping up to the plate. In my case, I had the cabinet over the J couch pull from the ceiling of the slide and tear the screws down the wall that hold the window valance in place. 1/16th" aluminum is all it is screwed into according to Winnebago. That and the Styrofoam insulation!


Back to the OP. Do your homework. Pick floor plan and features you like. Then find the best quality build and buy it.


Happy trails.
Rick

[creativepart]

Winnebago seems confident that the new factory in Junction City is putting out a quality built DP now - they're offering an unheard of 3-year/100,000 mile warranty on all new diesel motorhomes.

https://winnebagoind.com/promotions/...sel-drive.html

[Meridian42e]

Nice! Typically those long warranties are more a marketing ploy than confidence, but good news for the buyer.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Winnebago seems confident that the new factory in Junction City is putting out a quality built DP now - they're offering an unheard of 3-year/100,000 mile warranty on all new diesel motorhomes.

https://winnebagoind.com/promotions/...sel-drive.html

I have met many new coach owners who have been fighting factory built problems for that long. A trip to Forest city, IA will confirm my observation.



Junction City is a much smaller facility. Here is an interesting article: Winnebago Initiates Production at Oregon Facility | RV Business


"Much slower" is a good thing. Better chance of getting better quality even without a ramped up QC program.

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I love it when I see success stories like this. Good for you Gordon!


There are far too many stories of folks that go the other way. I can't say what the percentage is for good builds rolling out the factory door, but the dissatisfied buyers certainly make themselves heard on forums like this, in the campground and at the service centers. Sad but true, it seems the odds of getting a new coach ready to hit the road with a few later issues is less common than the I can't use my new RV. Too much wrong with it scenario. The manufacture name is not a guaranty of quality any longer. Some are worse than others.



When you consider that these things see something like a 7.2 quake in some of the road conditions we travel, good and solid builds is a must. That is where quality control should be stepping up to the plate. In my case, I had the cabinet over the J couch pull from the ceiling of the slide and tear the screws down the wall that hold the window valance in place. 1/16th" aluminum is all it is screwed into according to Winnebago. That and the Styrofoam insulation!


Back to the OP. Do your homework. Pick floor plan and features you like. Then find the best quality build and buy it.


Happy trails.
Rick

Hi Rick;
I believe that we should be looking at failure rates. WGO builds 200 coaches a week (did the factory tour in 2014 and that is what we were told) so if you look at the number of complaints the rate would appear to be quite low.

I expect if one we able to get the numbers we would find that all of the manufacturers would have similar failure rates and we might find that some who are considered to have superior quality might not have the ranking that some attach to their brands.

At fault may be some of the dealers who are unable to provide timely repairs for a number of reasons. We have been fortunate that Lichtsinn who is our dealer, is very competent.

We have had some things repaired and replaced. There was nothing obvious during our walk through but after putting 1600 miles on we found a few things that had to be repaired. Some catches had to be upgraded, etc. Truly minor things I could have done.

Expecting a dealer to find all of those kinds of issues may be excessive. I certainly do not want them driving the coach for days to identify those kinds of problems.

The other issue may be the amount of stuff we add and the way we load it. Janet treats the coach like she does the house. We have Corel dishes (lots), good heavy pots and pans, and the pantry is stuffed to the top with everything and anything we use or might need. Yup the occasional drawer might pop open but easily fixed.

I believe the perfect, bullet proof coach has yet to be built. By any manufacturer.

[creativepart]

RV issues are divided into so many categories that it's tough to quantify. We all know we have them... but who's at fault, really?

I would never describe a problem I experience with the Chassis drivetrain, or with a complete sub assembly, such as a water pump, air conditioner, etc to the RV Manufacture. So, for example, if my water heater isn't working that's an Attwood problem not a Winnebago problem.

Yet a LOT of folks that come here reporting problems are doing just that. Calling a broken AC unit a Winnebago problem. I think that's not fair to Winnebago.

It does get put on Winnebago if they install something badly, or if they make a corporate decision to use a cheaper/inferior part.

Look at Schwintec slides. A great many manufacturers moved from reliable under the floor slide systems to save space and money. And in short order found a huge trouble rate from the decision.

In high dollar coaches manufacturers seek out and install the best or most reliable systems - while "value" coaches look for ways to remove cost but still keep functionality while staying in budget.

Lastly, the poor condition of our nations roads is really putting a pounding on all RVs. It's no wonder that many coaches are being shaken to an early death.

[creativepart]

Originally Posted by jerichorick

I have met many new coach owners who have been fighting factory built problems for that long. A trip to Forest city, IA will confirm my observation.

I just returned from a May trip to Forest City. There were lots of 3 to 5 year old Diesel Pushers there for a range of issues - mostly slides.

And, it was a mixed group of "kinds" of owners too. There were some very experienced and knowledgeable RV owners with serious problems. But there were also folks there with a long list of trivial items. The kinds of things you'd fix yourself. Easy stuff.

The knowledgeable folks were accepting and understanding of the issues and Winnebago's ability to correct things and the amount of time that takes. The other type of owner wanted everything on their list fixed in one day and seemed constantly unhappy about even needing to be there.

Tour/Grand Tour/Meridian/Eclipse models from 2012 to 2015 did make up the bulk of RVs there when I was there. There was only one other Gas Class A when I was there and a couple Sprinter Based Class C's, all with roof leaks around the front cap issues.

I had two issues that I had taken to WBGO dealers and not had any luck getting them fixed. So, I made an appointment 6-months prior. By the time my appointment time arrived I had a list of 6 items and they fixed all but one.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald

Hi Rick;
I believe that we should be looking at failure rates. WGO builds 200 coaches a week (did the factory tour in 2014 and that is what we were told) so if you look at the number of complaints the rate would appear to be quite low.

I expect if one we able to get the numbers we would find that all of the manufacturers would have similar failure rates and we might find that some who are considered to have superior quality might not have the ranking that some attach to their brands.

At fault may be some of the dealers who are unable to provide timely repairs for a number of reasons. We have been fortunate that Lichtsinn who is our dealer, is very competent.

We have had some things repaired and replaced. There was nothing obvious during our walk through but after putting 1600 miles on we found a few things that had to be repaired. Some catches had to be upgraded, etc. Truly minor things I could have done.

Expecting a dealer to find all of those kinds of issues may be excessive. I certainly do not want them driving the coach for days to identify those kinds of problems.

The other issue may be the amount of stuff we add and the way we load it. Janet treats the coach like she does the house. We have Corel dishes (lots), good heavy pots and pans, and the pantry is stuffed to the top with everything and anything we use or might need. Yup the occasional drawer might pop open but easily fixed.

I believe the perfect, bullet proof coach has yet to be built. By any manufacturer.

We are a bit on the bulky side too. Melissa has 4 sewing machines, heavy dishes, pans and other stuff we guys see no need for. As for me I have only essentials on board; table saw, band saw, power miter saw, Milwaukee tool bag, compressor, nail guns... Yup. Just as bad.


You are somewhat correct in your observation about QC and units produced per day. But I don't agree totally. On the factory tour I asked our host, he was in charge of the cabinet shop, who did the QC check on the products coming off that line. He, boastfully I might add, stated that each worker did their own QC inspections. Well, I have been around long enough to realize that I am not good at finding my own errors if I am in a rush. Most folks are not that consciences on the production line. Now, compound this with the poor QC of the products not manufactured by Winnebago, appliances, slide mechanisms, etc and the haphazard way many of the components are installed... Well, it all sings an off key tune when the customer walks into a new coach.


But, with patience and persistence on the part of the coach owner a fine home can come out of the efforts. I think the Tour lineup is a great unit once all of the debilitating bugs are dealt with. I hope the OP finds one that he can deal with successfully and enjoy for many years to come.

[Meridian42e]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Tour/Grand Tour/Meridian/Eclipse models from 2012 to 2015 did make up the bulk of RVs there when I was there.

Well there you have it! Let's blame Lippert for coming up with that terrible Schwintek idea (which is currently being sold in Europe based on their exaggerated success in the US), and Winnebago for even talking to Lippert. I have a 2013, and the only 3 things I have trouble with are the only 3 things Lippert built - Schwintek slide, jacks, and the stupid retracting bed

[creativepart]

Make an appointment, drive to Forest City, IA and have them replace the Schwintec slides for Power Gear slides. On some coaches they are doing that for free or for a low cost.

The Slide guy at the factory, I forget his name, is pretty darn good. He doesn't like the Schwintec system any better than you do.

What problem do you have with the retracting bed? The day we bought our RV we drove to a campground across the highway from the dealership and the bed wouldn't extend. We called the dealership, they sent a guy over to the campground from their service dept. He had me hold the bed while he "adjusted" (bent) some sensor under the bed in the top left hand side and it's worked perfectly (knock wood again) ever since.

PS. We ditched the Sleep-Number Knock off "mattress" and put a Leesa brand mattress in it's place. We love it. And it weighs a lot less than the air bed. Those things are very heavy.

[Meridian42e]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Make an appointment, drive to Forest City, IA and have them replace the Schwintec slides for Power Gear slides. On some coaches they are doing that for free or for a low cost.

The Slide guy at the factory, I forget his name, is pretty darn good. He doesn't like the Schwintec system any better than you do.

What problem do you have with the retracting bed? The day we bought our RV we drove to a campground across the highway from the dealership and the bed wouldn't extend. We called the dealership, they sent a guy over to the campground from their service dept. He had me hold the bed while he "adjusted" (bent) some sensor under the bed in the top left hand side and it's worked perfectly (knock wood again) ever since.

PS. We ditched the Sleep-Number Knock off "mattress" and put a Leesa brand mattress in it's place. We love it. And it weighs a lot less than the air bed. Those things are very heavy.

As far as the slide, the large kitchen slide will stall and I have to have the DW give it a push. If I keep it lubed, I seem to do OK but I keep waiting to hear that gear stripping sound. At the GNR I'm going to talk to them about it - see what my options are as a 2nd owner. They may be able to show me how to adjust the stall amperage on the one motor which I heard could help. The small bedroom slide is no problem, typical for the Schwintek. They never should have been used on the larger slides.

Starting from the PDI the bed gave us fits as it broke a microswitch. After 3 switches and my refusal to take back to the Dealer to fix, I just bypassed them both and don't worry about it anymore.

Jacks - another problem I need to look at, the right front leaks down when cold and takes several cycles to make it behave. Once it drifts down, all the alarms go off. I believe it is a solenoid letting fluid pass.

[creativepart]

My full-wall Power Gear slide was working but having difficulty closing all the way at the bottom - but was doing so at the top. They found the top and bottom out of sync by 2 or 3 gear teeth. They also, on their own, added two more rollers under the middle of the slide. Seems they've been doing this to many if not all the full-wall slides they work on.

This has made a positive difference - you can tell the slide moves much easier and smoother as it goes in and out.

Sometimes there is a lot of construction debris under the slide too and cleaning that stuff out helps quite a bit.

[labradorian]

Originally Posted by lowejug

I wanted to ask any of you grand tour or ultra coach owners how the overall quality was in these coaches? I really like like the floor plans on these coaches as they
have great kitchen lay outs and then a really cozy tv area. I like the separation of the back bedroom. the dark formal colors are really nice feeling . BUT- when walking a 2015 model awhile ago the overall build felt a bit cheap. there was moldings already coming off and cracks in the wood doors. maybe it was just this particular coach.. how do they drive? is it smooth and QUIET? any wind noise in the cab? carpet and furniture holding up well? how is the insulation overall in the coach? is it loud in rain storms, sitting or driving? when parked and sleeping near highways is it quiet to the outside traffic? heating and air system efficient and quiet? thanks for your in put...

We have a 2015 GrandTour 42QL and love it! the quality compared to others we had looked at is top notch.
While driving it is very comfortable and quite.
Every year we always go to RV shows to see what is new and always come back to our MH and realize this is the one and would not change thing.

[jerichorick]

Originally Posted by Meridian42e

Well there you have it! Let's blame Lippert for coming up with that terrible Schwintek idea (which is currently being sold in Europe based on their exaggerated success in the US), and Winnebago for even talking to Lippert. I have a 2013, and the only 3 things I have trouble with are the only 3 things Lippert built - Schwintek slide, jacks, and the stupid retracting bed

I just took a look at their website. If any company needs to be look at for an anti-trust situation I think it is them. ALL or most of the components made to put RVs together come from one of their companies, including Power Gear and Schwintek, Atwood is in the mix too. Just goes to show yea, Good advertising will sell anything. Real life durability and longevity? No need to worry. Just avoid talking about the lack of it! Wow. So much for Made in America. But we still love RVing in spite of what the manufactures sell us. Only they have the power to change the component quality and reliability they use. As my dad used to say; "Make it cheaper. Charge them more." Poor but true business practice.


With all of this negative talk, I still encourage the OP to buy the best USED RV he likes. Over all, he will have fun in it.