Front Brake Repair '07 Journey

Pusherman · 10-26-2007, 01:14 PM

This past August we were just leaving home, traveling thru a small town (30mph) about 10 miles from our home. I pulled over to check the new toad (first trip out with it).

I had noticed that the brakes, when applied at slow speed, would pull to the left. When I got out to inspect the toad, I also checked the wheels by touching them. This is a habit I have formed to check if my aux brake is dragging the brakes on the toad. I also happened to touch the left front wheel of the coach, and about burned my hand.

Called FL and asked if it was safe to drive it to the local FL dealer here in Rochester. They said 'go for it', as if there was any damage, it was already done.

Got to the FL dealer and they (amazingly but happily) got me in immediately. Used an IR heat gun and checked the brakes on the front, and sure enough, the left side was MUCH hotter than the right side.

Turns out the s-cam rollers were hanging up, causing the brakes to hang up and drag. Apparently there was little-to-no grease in the front wheels, causing the hang-up. FL took the wheel apart, cleaned the s-cams, and re-lubed the whole coach. I went back 1 week later and had the s-cam rollers replaced (had to be ordered), all work done under warranty. Note that the coach was about 8 months old with about 7Kmi on the odo. FL agreed that the coach was inadequately lubricated from the factory.

After driving it with the above repairs completed, I now noticed a slight 'grabbing' on the left front when the brakes were applied. The steering wheel would pull left when coming to a stop.

FL ended up replacing both sets of front shoes to fix the pull. Air pressure was checked on both sides, and was OK. At first the factory suggested replacing only the shoes on the RIGHT side, as they felt the right wheel was not 'pulling it's weight'. Didn't fix it. They also moved the drum from the left to the right. Didn't fix it. Replaced shoes on both sides, and all is well.

FL recommends that the chassis be lubed every 6 months, irregardless of mileage. I used to only lube every 12 months, but I will now try to heed this recommendation. Maybe over time there will be adequate grease in the chassis such that it won't dry out with annual lubes, but I'm convinced it was not adequately lubed from the factory (and FL agreed).

Pusherman · 10-26-2007, 01:14 PM

This past August we were just leaving home, traveling thru a small town (30mph) about 10 miles from our home. I pulled over to check the new toad (first trip out with it).

I had noticed that the brakes, when applied at slow speed, would pull to the left. When I got out to inspect the toad, I also checked the wheels by touching them. This is a habit I have formed to check if my aux brake is dragging the brakes on the toad. I also happened to touch the left front wheel of the coach, and about burned my hand.

Called FL and asked if it was safe to drive it to the local FL dealer here in Rochester. They said 'go for it', as if there was any damage, it was already done.

Got to the FL dealer and they (amazingly but happily) got me in immediately. Used an IR heat gun and checked the brakes on the front, and sure enough, the left side was MUCH hotter than the right side.

Turns out the s-cam rollers were hanging up, causing the brakes to hang up and drag. Apparently there was little-to-no grease in the front wheels, causing the hang-up. FL took the wheel apart, cleaned the s-cams, and re-lubed the whole coach. I went back 1 week later and had the s-cam rollers replaced (had to be ordered), all work done under warranty. Note that the coach was about 8 months old with about 7Kmi on the odo. FL agreed that the coach was inadequately lubricated from the factory.

After driving it with the above repairs completed, I now noticed a slight 'grabbing' on the left front when the brakes were applied. The steering wheel would pull left when coming to a stop.

FL ended up replacing both sets of front shoes to fix the pull. Air pressure was checked on both sides, and was OK. At first the factory suggested replacing only the shoes on the RIGHT side, as they felt the right wheel was not 'pulling it's weight'. Didn't fix it. They also moved the drum from the left to the right. Didn't fix it. Replaced shoes on both sides, and all is well.

FL recommends that the chassis be lubed every 6 months, irregardless of mileage. I used to only lube every 12 months, but I will now try to heed this recommendation. Maybe over time there will be adequate grease in the chassis such that it won't dry out with annual lubes, but I'm convinced it was not adequately lubed from the factory (and FL agreed).

vicsryd · 10-27-2007, 08:31 AM

Don,

Thanks for the insight. S-cams have been reported as an occasional sticking point (pun intended) in the FCOC Yahoo Group as well.

I might suggest Driver or Petro cross-connect this post to the Freightliner forum as it really applies to that audience more than just Winnebago.

Pusherman · 10-27-2007, 05:14 PM

Jon, agreed. When I originally posted this, I thought I should have put it in the FL forum. Not sure if we have the capability to post in 2 forums at once or not, but I don't know how to.

SCVJeff · 10-27-2007, 10:43 PM

The mods can post alias links within the forums. I'm not sure that's a pion feature.

I greased the entire chassis just after purchase a little over a year ago and noticed the same thing. I injected a LOT of grease in almost every Zirk in the coach. They were all but dry.

Chief · 10-28-2007, 05:25 AM

Didn't think too much of it at the time but after 1st chassis lube I remember thinking that the zerks took an awful lot of grease. Maybe FL has a problem with QC that they should address (if they haven't done so already). Anyone else???

bobwallace · 10-28-2007, 06:34 PM

Can the S cam rollers be greased via a zert?? I thought the hubs had to be removed to do this.
This is my first post since May. Just finished four mouths on the road.

Joe-K · 10-30-2007, 05:49 AM

Great information Pusherman. Thanks.

I did move the post to the Freighliner forum and cross posted it back to Winnebago.

Jestme13 · 10-30-2007, 03:41 PM

To save yourself from crawling under the rig to grease more then once a year, how about a superior synthetic grease ? It cost's, but it's worth it

mystere900 · 10-31-2007, 07:07 PM

Had problem with dry S-cam rollers about a year ago. During heavy braking we would get a loud clunk. (Rollers skipping on the S-cam) Truck Country in Oak Creek, WI. pulled the drums, cleaned and lubed the rollers to the tune of $400. They said it was part of the PM to be performed every 6000 miles. That's a lot of quid for every 6K. Next time I'll do it myself.

Pusherman · 11-01-2007, 08:43 AM

Someone else asked, and I too would like to know the answer -- Do the S-cam rollers get grease via the zerks?

mystere900 · 11-01-2007, 11:20 AM

I don't think so. Believe the drums have to come off and brakes disassembled to lube the rollers. At least thats what Truck Country did to my rig and why it cost so much. If anyone knows differently, please let me know.

Bikeboy57 · 11-01-2007, 01:17 PM

The s cams do not get grease via either of the zerk fittings on the brake assembly. They cannot be accessed by removing the dust cover either. They can be accessed by removing the front wheel, and the drum.

How to do this? Buy 3/4 drive inch breaker bar and socket (less than $100 at Sears) plus a six foot length of 1' iron pipe at Lowes/Home depot ($12) Chock the wheels, loosen the lug nuts on one side, use the landing gear to barely raise that tire off the ground, put a jack stand under the axle, remove tire and drum, put grease on s cam. Don't worry, it's obvious what it is. It looks like an S. Reverse order. If you're retentive about getting 600 ft lb torque on the lug nut, then stand on the bathroom scales while you tighten. If you use a 6 ft pipe, then press down on the very end of it until the scale reads 100 lbs lighter than you are. Betcha a dollar that's a lot more accurate than the gorilla with the air gun.

You now have the tools for less than a 100 dollars to remove your wheels.

Jestme13 · 11-01-2007, 03:59 PM

sounds good Bike, but i don't grasp the part about using the bathroom scale and the breaker bar to set torque

Can you explaine this a little clearer for us ?

Bikeboy57 · 11-02-2007, 11:17 AM

Yes,

Torque = force x distance

So if you have a 6 foot long cheater piece of pipe, you need to apply 100 lbs of force at the end to generate 600 ft-lbs torque on the nut. This is all with the cheater pipe parallel to the ground.

How do you put 100 lbs of force on the cheater pipe. Well you could hang a 100 lb weight, or you could stand on scales at the end of the pipe. If you press down on the pipe until the scale "loses" 100 lbs then you have applied 100 lbs force to the pipe. I hope that makes sense, the scale is just a way to know how much force you are exerting on the pipe.

You could do it backwards by lifting up on the pipe, which would add weight to the scale. It's easier to push down with 100 lbs of force that it is to pull up with 100 lbs of effort.

Now, if you're a 90 lb grannie this won't work.

mystere900 · 11-03-2007, 09:38 AM

How about if you needed to tighten the rear duals? The lugs are recessed into the wheel and a extension is needed to get at them. I remember somewhere in my past that when using a extension the torque has to be adjusted for the length of the extension. True or not? Or am I trying to apply rocket science where it isn't needed? (Many years ago I was a Nike Hercules missile tech.)

Bikeboy57 · 11-05-2007, 06:36 AM

I will try to be clear about this. If the extension is along the handle where you are applying force then that length needs to figured into the force X length = torque equation. If the extension is the line of the bolt, such as the case when you use an extension to reach the lugs on the rear. It has NO effect on the torque. It is recommended that you use a jack stand to support that extension if you do that. It keeps the socket from slipping off the lug, making a mess of your Alcoa's, and provoking unseemly vocabulary when you hit the ground.

mystere900 · 11-05-2007, 03:42 PM

Here's one mans method to accomplish the same thing Richard is saying about increasing and measuring torque.

http://www.specialpatrolgroup.co.uk/...ue/torque.html

Jestme13 · 11-05-2007, 04:38 PM

Bike Boy, that is some great info

I kinda thought thats what you meant after I thought about it

I remember seeing at a Rally somewhere a guy selling a system very similar to this idea. It had a tripod sort of set up to hold the extension shaft going to the lugs. Do you use any method along with a real torque wrench ? a 4' bar and wrench, or is the wrench to delicate ?

Jestme13 · 11-05-2007, 04:46 PM

OOPs spoke to soon, I just looked at Rodgers link, also looks like a great idea as I have a large torque wrench to try this with, or do I just want to call the tire service