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Old 05-24-2018, 08:12 PM   #1
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Lightbulb Burned up hydraulic motor to leveling jacks

I've been having some issues with my LCI level-up Motorhome Leveling system on my RV (2013 Winnebago Vista 30t). When retracting the jacks I get a "****ERROR **** Retract Timeout" on the lcd display and the light on the dash (Jacks Down) remains illuminate, no alarm as it was either disconnected or inoperable from previous owner. Didn't care about the alarm not working, to damn loud and annoying anyway. I have the myLCI app downloaded on my phone for quick reference. In the trouble shooting section it states that ERROR is caused by either of the following, Parking Brake not engaged, Engine not running prior to starting auto retract sequence, Leaking hose or fitting. I did try several times to get the jacks to retract, looking under the RV they were all up as far as they could go, I even tried to push them up as the pump was trying to retract the jacks. I tried resetting the system by pressing the Enter and Retract buttons together to clear error. After several times of trying to retract the jacks I could smell something burning (that electrical burning smell). I opened the door to check the hydraulic pump and noticed the electric motor to the pump was smoking, to hot to touch, and where the rubber cap covers the manual crank up their was a black tar looking liquid coming out of that end of the motor. While I allowed the motor to cool down I decided to check all of the hydraulic fittings on the pump, manifold, and jacks. I did find one jack passenger front that had that damp look on the jack and around a fitting and hose. I did also have 5 other fittings that were loose, but not leaking or even wet looking. So with that done and the motor now cooled off I plugged back in the harness at the pump, and put the fuse back in. I went inside and started the RV I still had the Jacks Down light on and the LCD display "Jacks Down", I pressed the retract jacks and got nothing, my wife said that she could hear the solenoid click, but no motor noise. I decided after several attempts to remove the pump motor. Wasn't to hard (turned off the coach and chassis battery disconnect switches) verified no power with multi meter, undid hose clamp that secured solenoid to motor, removed positive and negative cables from end of motor, then undid 2 Allen head bolts and motor was out (less then 5 minutes). I noticed that I could not turn the motor by hand. Decided to look inside the motor, it was trashed, pieces of metal falling out, brushes and armutres burnt. Called Lippert with part number off bad motor, and was given a new number that superseded the old one, price for that little motor $940 dollars, I was in shock. I did search the internet and found one through Rv Upgrades for $787 + $30 for new shaft from motor to pump as it was different from the one I removed and they told me that I would need it, so $828 for new pump and shaft. So long story short if you get this time out error check for park brake engaged, Engine on prior to retracting jacks and check all of your jack, hydraulic fittings and hoses, so you to don't burn up a $940 dollar motor. I'll update when new motor arrives and see if system works then.
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Old 05-26-2018, 10:43 PM   #2
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I hope the new motor gets you fixed up! Please update us with the outcome. Good luck.
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Old 05-29-2018, 09:52 PM   #3
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I just went through this in April on my 2016 Vista 30T. The technician who originally diagnosed the burnt up motor and manually retracted my jacks stated that this was a rare problem. However, you are the third owner who has reported a burnt up motor. I contacted Lippert customer service and persuaded the technician to give me a 20 percent discount on a new motor. I believe these motors are poor quality or undersized for the service requirements.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:22 PM   #4
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Lightbulb

Reinstalled with new motor and coupler. (Prior post) Removal is pretty straight forward, turn off power to coach and chassis at disconnect switches first to prevent any shorts, pulled 15 amp fuse at the pump motor, disconnected wiring harness (both just as a safety precaution), unbolted the ground wires first (zip tied together as a reminder that they go together), disconnected positive from both motor and solenoid (set cable off to the side), next I undid the hose clamp holding solenoid to the motor, then removed the 2, 5/16 Allen head screws and pulled motor out. Installed new motor in reverse order (pretty simple). I then took the RV up the road to a empty parking lot, I zeroed out the jacks, then ran them through a auto level sequence (worked great), I verified that the emergency auto retract worked by pulling the emergency brake handle (the alarm went off and they immediately started to retract). I could tell the difference in this motor vs my old one even before I began to have issues with it, this one seems alot quieter and retracting the jacks seemed faster. A great app to have on your phone or tablet is myLCI (it covers alot of stuff) take a look if it helps great if not Uninstall it. Her are a few pics, you can see the black tar looking stuff that leaked out of the motor (varnish that covers brass wire to prevent corrosion, burnt and melted out), by the way I did contact a electric motor repair shop. They advised me after sending them pics that the motor more then likely was not repairable.
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:49 PM   #5
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Is auto leveling worth the huge initial price and the repair costs? In the case of Robval a five year old coach. Post after post, forum after forum.
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Old 06-06-2018, 05:02 PM   #6
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Good Question Larry. LCI part prices - all of them - are really hard to swallow.
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Old 06-06-2018, 10:31 PM   #7
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This is what upsets me about RV parts. Someone please explain why Lippert has to charge over $900 to their customers. I realize they have overhead (personnel, rent, taxes, etc), but really.... $900...
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Old 06-07-2018, 11:37 AM   #8
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Had an almost identical problem with the LCI system on a 2014 Adventurer 38Q. I had difficulty getting the unit level in an unlevel site and on the 3rd attempt to retract, smoke started coming through the dash vents. The levelers were actually retracted, but the pump couldn't produce enough pressure at the sensor to show they were retracted. I had to pull wires on the back of the panel to stop the noise for the 300 mile trip home. I had extended warranty and used that for the repair. The new pump/motor works better and doesn't even sound the same. The dealer also updated the firmware in the control and that also made a difference in how the system reacts. It now (even without the emergency brake on) will do a short burst on the pump to bring the pressure up in the system and assure the levelers are fully retracted. I am still very careful. I evaluate levelness before I start and try to always get level on the first attempt by adding extra blocks below the levelers that will have the longest extension.
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Old 06-07-2018, 01:40 PM   #9
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Lightbulb

I am interested in this firm ware that you spoke of, do you have an additional information about this update. I surely do not want to have to buy another pump motor ever. Mine is working great and like you stated it does seem quieter and faster then before (knock on wood). Any info would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 06-07-2018, 03:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi6998 View Post
This is what upsets me about RV parts. Someone please explain why Lippert has to charge over $900 to their customers. I realize they have overhead (personnel, rent, taxes, etc), but really.... $900...
RV owners are held for ransom exactly like boat owners or swimming pool owners. "You gotta pay to play."
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Old 06-08-2018, 05:34 AM   #11
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Firmware

Unfortunately I don't have any additional information on the firmware update. The dealer did the work and took care of the details. This happened about 3 years ago, so my memory is also a little fuzzy. You could contact Lippert directly. Although I think their products are about the worst, I have actually found their tech support to be reasonably good.
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Old 06-11-2018, 07:39 AM   #12
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I may be a little late to the game, but I also had an LCI pump motor go up. 2015 Itasca Sun Star, second owner. I assumed it went bad because every time I go to start the RV, if left for more than several days, the system indicates the jacks are down. When I hit auto retract it takes about 15-20 seconds for them to go up. I suspect a little drift is the problem.

However, when I spoke to LCI, they were very nice and responsive, and provided me with a new motor (one time) gratis. I took my old motor to a local 12v. motor repair shop who confirmed it wasn't meant to be rebuilt. However, since 12 v. motors are their only business, they tore it apart, "made" some brushes for it and said it should work fine. Cost me about $20.00 or so. I now carry it with me on the RV. Small price to pay for piece of mind.

I also agree, their app is user friendly and informative.
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Old 06-11-2018, 10:54 AM   #13
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Reading these posts I have to ask - is your hydraulic oil topped up? On my Lippert Power Gear leveler the "jacks down" light alarm goes off if the oil is not up to the min fill line on the canister.

Is it possible that low hydraulic oil, or maybe worn out or dirty oil is causing the motor to over heat?

I realize it's probably a bad run of motors, and not some other thing. But if you have the alarm disabled and drive with the jacks down light on then you wouldn't know about the hydraulic oil level without constantly checking it.

And to the member that asked if it's worth it... auto leveling is one of the best features of a motorhome over a travel trailer. Push button leveling is worth a LOT to me.
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Old 06-12-2018, 12:54 PM   #14
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Well this is turning out to be a much larger problem than the mobile RV technician led me to believe. I had plenty of fluid in my system when the motor burnt up. I camp in primitive areas most of the time and they are usually not perfectly level. I could not tolerate my levelers not working. Fortunately when they quit it was one of the few times I was camped in a perfectly level RV park. Based on my experience, I would not reset the alarm and extend the jacks the next time. If I had not lucked into a competent Lippert technician responding onsite, I could have been stuck in an expensive RV park for a long time. He showed me how to manually retract the jacks, but I wouldn't bet that I could successfully perform that task.
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